[Texascavers] a fancy cave rescue animation

[David]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHP_eqgsUkA

I think the red diver represents each boy they hope to
rescue.
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Re: [Texascavers] (no subject)

[F D Caudle]

http://alternative.ideasthatchangetheworld.com
F D Caudle


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[Texascavers] Thai topics

[David]

Here are the guys making the PVC tube that the boys may crawl through, along
with a ladder to maybe pull themselves through the swimming sections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLJmhpZKbuo



I learned today that Thai culture sometimes has public cremations.

It looks like maybe the fallen rescuer will get something like a cremation
performed by a
high-ranking monk, or group of high-ranking monks and it will be televised.


If anybody in Houston would like to go hang out at a nice Thai restaurant
contact me.


I have not seen the boys talking on the telephone to their mommies yet, so
that must
be something for tomorrow

D.L.
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[Texascavers] Elon Musk wants to put a bouncy Castle in the Thai Cave

[Lee H. Skinner]

Interesting Idea!


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44735412


Lee Skinner

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Re: [Texascavers] [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[John Corcoran III]

Ken,

Yes, the source of the calcite has been the subject of much discussion and 
speculation.  There are several theories, none yet proven.  One of the 
favorites is that the calcite-saturated water comes from the top of the water 
table where it can sit for years and then, during above normal precipitation, 
the piston effect may raise the water table which then pours into the cave.  
This implies several things such as having the current Snowy River passage just 
slightly above the water table, and a source of water somewhere to far SW of 
the currently known system.  There is some published geological detail of the 
suspected source area, but more data is needed.  The USGS, NCKRI, and NM Tech 
teams are currently studying the problem…

Regards,

John

From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Ken 
Harrington
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 11:27 AM
To: J Lyles 
Cc: Lee Skinner ; Pete Lindsley ; 
Peter Jones ; Geary Schindel ; 
Penelope Boston ; N E W L I S T Southwestern Cavers of 
the National Speleological Society ; Texascavers 
; Sandia Grotto 

Subject: Re: [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from 
over in the Thai cave

John,  Not to divert the discussion from dangerous areas in Snowy River if it 
flooded. But, I find the comment that the flagging tape was coated in calcite 
after only a short period of flooding to be interesting. That would indicate 
that the source of the calcite is significant for two reasons. It has to be 
large to continue to dissolve over a long period of time and it has to be 
easily solvable to produce enough in a short period of time to coat the tape 
(and everything else). Such a source should be geographically estimate-able by 
studying surface structures and compositions. The rapid coating of the tape may 
also be another indication that the Snowy River formation is a relatively 
recent development.
Ken
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 6, 2018, at 10:48 AM, J Lyles 
mailto:j...@losalamos.com>> wrote:
Yes, it would silt up quickly to low visibility but is is straightforward and 
not a narrow passage. The other two regions that would scare me are the long 
low crawl from SRS 102-112 or so, often nicknamed Crawl from Hell. This 
probably would just fill wall to wall with a headspace. In an emergency we 
wouldn't be concerned about touching the ceiling. The series of real sumps from 
after Return to Snowy River to about SRS150 are of concern because there are 
some constrictions for crawling, in between deep basins. We have seen evidence 
that the floods touched ceiling here last time, and flagging was coated in 
calcite.
On Jul 6, 2018, at 12:00 AM, "Lee H. Skinner" 
mailto:skin...@thuntek.net>> wrote:

does anyone know if Mud Lizard could be negotiated easily by cave divers in 
case of a rescue?



lee Skinner

On 7/5/2018 12:12 PM, Pete Lindsley wrote:
In Fort Stanton Cave the Aug 2014 team found that the water was very slowly 
flowing towards them when they were about halfway to MJ, and there was no 
danger here. It took about a month for the flow to reach Turtle Junction, an 
easy mile from the entrance. We may be able to determine if the Mud Lizard 
(~2.4 miles from the entrance) sumps during heavy flows, once we exchange the 
water loggers at this critical point. But if the area gets another storm like 
Hurricane Dolly, plus with the removal of vegetation following the Little Bear 
fire, we would expect the water to rise much faster. Pumping any water from FSC 
is impractical.

 - Pete

On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:46 PM, John Lyles < 
j...@losalamos.com> wrote:

But Ft. Stanton Cave in NM is definitely a place to be careful. Far south on 
Snowy River was being pushed and mapped in 2014, and by August it began 
flooding. Midnight Junction camp hasn't seen cavers   since then, although we 
are hoping the present drying trend remains at least until fall there.
Sent from BlueMail 
On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:38 PM, Peter Jones < 
pjca...@gwi.net> wrote:

Having been a caver in the Guads for 49 years, I can say that there have not 
been a lot of issues of flooding of our caves to the point where they might 
cause some serious problems.  That does not mean that the caves won’t flood, 
just that the number that are likely to are pretty limited.  Vanishing River 
Cave, which drains many square miles of canyons upstream from its location, 
would certainly be considered a no-entry cave during flooding season.  I’ve 
been in Carlsbad (town) several times when there have been real frog strangling 
rain and the normally empty river beds have been boiling with torrents of 
rushing water.  Had to even drive up to McCollum’s Ranch in a torrential 
downpour to pick up a friend who decided to hike the Guadalupe Ridge Trail from 
the Lookout Tower to Carlsbad Caverns National Park and got lost somewhere 
around Putman Cabin and had to double back that same night, arriving at the 
Lookout Tower Cabi

Re: [Texascavers] Another Pete Story

[David]

I had to dig really deep into my repressed-memory subcortex to find this to
unscramble the remaining 200 Megabytes of decaying-memory left.

In late 1985 or 1986, I had driven from College Station to Bustamante.

I do not remember at all, if I was alone or had some Aggies with me.

I went into Palmito and expectedly found no one in the cave.   But later, I
unexpectedly found Pete climbing a rope to the Birthday Passage.   I had
tried previously unsuccessfully in December of 1984 to find the route and
was about 50 feet off.

I do not recall other cavers standing around.

I think he waved me to come on up.  So I did.   But there were other cavers
up there and so I just poked around near the entrance to the passage and
then climbed back down the rope ( hand-over-hand I think.  My memory is
Pete said to me don't swing to the right or you will fall off into a
crevis.

Does anything about that memory sound right ?

I guess I stayed in the motel and maybe ate dinner at the motel cafe.

Part of the problem with that memory is I did not have access to a car.

So I must have taken the bus.

I guess I should have written down my adventures or mishaps as they really
were.

Maybe I just dreamed this all up.  It all seems so foreign and foggy
compared to my weird sedentary life now.

David Locklear


P.S.   On a totally different note, I have found having a daughter who is
almost 14 to be a painful experience.  I sure do miss my sweet little
CavePearl.   What happened ??
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Re: [Texascavers] Another Pete Story

[jerryatkin]

Don’t worry, David, you most certainly aren’t a lost soul. Life could have been 
much worse if you stop and think about it. 

Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:31 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> I seem to recall at various NSS campgrounds where a temporary restroom was 
> constructed, that Pete would arrive early and help tweak the plumbing issues 
> or arrange vertical tarps for privacy.
> 
> Feel free to correct me.
> 
> Maybe at Maine and Marquette, Michigan.
> 
> If Pete was at the Spring 1985 TSA Spring Convention at Inner Space Caverns, 
> than that is when I would have first met him.   Then at 1985 TCR which was at 
> a canoe park near New Braunfels.However, at both of those events, I spent 
> most of my time "spelunking."
> 
> Had I had a mentor in my young life like Pete, I might have amounted to 
> something.
> And there are not many people, I could say that about.  I can't think of any 
> at the moment.
> 
> 
> One of my fond memories is spending a few minutes in Pete's hot-tub with two 
> cute young Russian or Ukranian ladies.  They were cavers, I think.
> 
> I thought Pete's big light came off a train engine.  
> 
> I think Pete is pictured at Vermont NSS Howdy Party 
> 
> D.L.
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[Texascavers] Another Pete Story

[David]

I seem to recall at various NSS campgrounds where a temporary restroom was
constructed, that Pete would arrive early and help tweak the plumbing
issues or arrange vertical tarps for privacy.

Feel free to correct me.

Maybe at Maine and Marquette, Michigan.

If Pete was at the Spring 1985 TSA Spring Convention at Inner Space
Caverns, than that is when I would have first met him.   Then at 1985 TCR
which was at a canoe park near New Braunfels.However, at both of those
events, I spent most of my time "spelunking."

Had I had a mentor in my young life like Pete, I might have amounted to
something.
And there are not many people, I could say that about.  I can't think of
any at the moment.


One of my fond memories is spending a few minutes in Pete's hot-tub with
two cute young Russian or Ukranian ladies.  They were cavers, I think.

I thought Pete's big light came off a train engine.

I think Pete is pictured at Vermont NSS Howdy Party

D.L.
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Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[William R. Elliott]

Thank you Heather. That is great.

Sincerely,

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Heather Tucek  wrote:

> I'm collecting all the things I see on TexasCavers, as well as everything
> I can find on Facebook and will be compiling those, as well as the photos
> that get posted and once the posts about him slow down, I will put it all
> in a pdf file for Jocie.
>
> -Heather
>
>
> On 6 July 2018 at 11:16, Katherine Arens  wrote:
>
>> things disappear off facebook, and there’s a bunch there, too.
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Mark Minton 
>> wrote:
>>
>> No worry about the Pete Strickland posts (or any others) disappearing.
>> You can get all of the old Texascavers content online from the Google
>> Groups CaveTex archive .
>> However, it would be handier if someone did collect them all in one place.
>>
>> Mark Minton
>> mmim...@caver.net
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Jul, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Katherine Arens 
>> wrote:
>>
>> and can someone volunteer to collect all the posts for Jocie  &co. before
>> they disappear?   I can’t . . .
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/te
>> xascav...@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>>
>> 
>> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
>> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
>> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
>> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
>> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
>> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>>   -. .-
>>  _..-'()`-.._
>>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
>> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
>> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
>> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
>> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>>  ``  `V ' ' '
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/te
>> xascav...@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Go find out!*
> -Heather Tuček
> TSA Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> trog...@cavechat.org
> cbcaves.com
>
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>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[Heather Tucek]

I'm collecting all the things I see on TexasCavers, as well as everything I
can find on Facebook and will be compiling those, as well as the photos
that get posted and once the posts about him slow down, I will put it all
in a pdf file for Jocie.

-Heather


On 6 July 2018 at 11:16, Katherine Arens  wrote:

> things disappear off facebook, and there’s a bunch there, too.
>
> On Jul 6, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Mark Minton 
> wrote:
>
> No worry about the Pete Strickland posts (or any others) disappearing. You
> can get all of the old Texascavers content online from the Google Groups
> CaveTex archive .
> However, it would be handier if someone did collect them all in one place.
>
> Mark Minton
> mmim...@caver.net
>
> On Thu, 5 Jul, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Katherine Arens 
> wrote:
>
> and can someone volunteer to collect all the posts for Jocie  &co. before
> they disappear?   I can’t . . .
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
> 
> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>
>


-- 
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org
cbcaves.com
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Re: [Texascavers] [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[Ken Harrington]

John,  Not to divert the discussion from dangerous areas in Snowy River if it 
flooded. But, I find the comment that the flagging tape was coated in calcite 
after only a short period of flooding to be interesting. That would indicate 
that the source of the calcite is significant for two reasons. It has to be 
large to continue to dissolve over a long period of time and it has to be 
easily solvable to produce enough in a short period of time to coat the tape 
(and everything else). Such a source should be geographically estimate-able by 
studying surface structures and compositions. The rapid coating of the tape may 
also be another indication that the Snowy River formation is a relatively 
recent development.
Ken

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 6, 2018, at 10:48 AM, J Lyles 
mailto:j...@losalamos.com>> wrote:

Yes, it would silt up quickly to low visibility but is is straightforward and 
not a narrow passage. The other two regions that would scare me are the long 
low crawl from SRS 102-112 or so, often nicknamed Crawl from Hell. This 
probably would just fill wall to wall with a headspace. In an emergency we 
wouldn't be concerned about touching the ceiling. The series of real sumps from 
after Return to Snowy River to about SRS150 are of concern because there are 
some constrictions for crawling, in between deep basins. We have seen evidence 
that the floods touched ceiling here last time, and flagging was coated in 
calcite.
On Jul 6, 2018, at 12:00 AM, "Lee H. Skinner" 
mailto:skin...@thuntek.net>> wrote:

does anyone know if Mud Lizard could be negotiated easily by cave divers in 
case of a rescue?


lee Skinner

On 7/5/2018 12:12 PM, Pete Lindsley wrote:
In Fort Stanton Cave the Aug 2014 team found that the water was very slowly 
flowing towards them when they were about halfway to MJ, and there was no 
danger here. It took about a month for the flow to reach Turtle Junction, an 
easy mile from the entrance. We may be able to determine if the Mud Lizard 
(~2.4 miles from the entrance) sumps during heavy flows, once we exchange the 
water loggers at this critical point. But if the area gets another storm like 
Hurricane Dolly, plus with the removal of vegetation following the Little Bear 
fire, we would expect the water to rise much faster. Pumping any water from FSC 
is impractical.

 - Pete

On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:46 PM, John Lyles < 
j...@losalamos.com> wrote:

But Ft. Stanton Cave in NM is definitely a place to be careful. Far south on 
Snowy River was being pushed and mapped in 2014, and by August it began 
flooding. Midnight Junction camp hasn't seen cavers   since then, although we 
are hoping the present drying trend remains at least until fall there.

Sent from BlueMail 
On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:38 PM, Peter Jones < 
pjca...@gwi.net> wrote:

Having been a caver in the Guads for 49 years, I can say that there have not 
been a lot of issues of flooding of our caves to the point where they might 
cause some serious problems.  That does not mean that the caves won’t flood, 
just that the number that are likely to are pretty limited.  Vanishing River 
Cave, which drains many square miles of canyons upstream from its location, 
would certainly be considered a no-entry cave during flooding season.  I’ve 
been in Carlsbad (town) several times when there have been real frog strangling 
rain and the normally empty river beds have been boiling with torrents of 
rushing water.  Had to even drive up to McCollum’s Ranch in a torrential 
downpour to pick up a friend who decided to hike the Guadalupe Ridge Trail from 
the Lookout Tower to Carlsbad Caverns National Park and got lost somewhere 
around Putman Cabin and had to double back that same night, arriving at the 
Lookout Tower Cabin around 3 AM, totally drenched to the bone.  He hiked down 
the following day and I met up with him just before McCollum’s Ranch to drive 
him back into town.  The flooding was unbelievable!!  Other caves that lie in 
the bottom of major drainages could certainly be a major problem for cavers who 
don’t pay attention to the weather.  A lot of the gyp caves and those like 
Spider Cave could be a real problem.  I also remember the day that I first 
dropped into Andy’s Cave with Tom Meador into virgin cave and came back to the 
entrance a couple of hours later to a waterfall pouring down the entrance drop 
and beginning to fill the canyon side of the 65’ deep drop.  It ended after the 
rain stopped, but it was certainly a wet climb out of there after that 
torrential event.

Just a reminder that we should all be careful about rain (and snow in the 
winter) when we go caving.

Peter








  On Jul 3, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Geary Schindel <
 gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> 
wrote:

 Penny,

 Yes, we’re trying to get our message out as most caves don’t respond to 
rainfall like this one does. However, we have

[Texascavers] wet Texas caves

[David]

Whatever happened to the project at Manley's Cave ( might have name spelled
wrong ).

This was a tiny wet cave west of Fort Worth ?

I never saw a map of it.

My fuzzy memory from the late 80's was it was just a short tight wet
crawlway that
dead-ended or became too tight.


The best lead that I know of is at the back of Prassel's Ranch Cave ?
If some small boys somehow
managed to get thru that restriction and the cave flooded, that would
require drilling. Shouldn't
be more than 40 foot deep though.  Too bad nobody has ever filmed the
cave at flood stage.

That would be a great project for a cave radio.

That would also be a great project to look for prehistoric bones.

If cavers could remove all the thick wet slimey mud from the cave, no
telling what the cave would look like.   It might even
have some walking size passage.

D.L.
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Re: [Texascavers] [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[J Lyles]

Yes, it would silt up quickly to low visibility but is is straightforward and 
not a narrow passage. The other two regions that would scare me are the long 
low crawl from SRS 102-112 or so, often nicknamed Crawl from Hell. This 
probably would just fill wall to wall with a headspace. In an emergency we 
wouldn't be concerned about touching the ceiling. The series of real sumps from 
after Return to Snowy River to about SRS150 are of concern because there are 
some constrictions for crawling, in between deep basins. We have seen evidence 
that the floods touched ceiling here last time, and flagging was coated in 
calcite.

On Jul 6, 2018, 12:00 AM, at 12:00 AM, "Lee H. Skinner"  
wrote:
>does anyone know if Mud Lizard could be negotiated easily by cave
>divers
>in case of a rescue?
>
>
>lee Skinner
>
>
>On 7/5/2018 12:12 PM, Pete Lindsley wrote:
>> In Fort Stanton Cave the Aug 2014 team found that the water was very
>> slowly flowing towards them when they were about halfway to MJ, and
>> there was no danger here. It took about a month for the flow to reach
>
>> Turtle Junction, an easy mile from the entrance. We may be able to
>> determine if the Mud Lizard (~2.4 miles from the entrance) sumps
>> during heavy flows, once we exchange the water loggers at this
>> critical point. But if the area gets another storm like Hurricane
>> Dolly, plus with the removal of vegetation following the Little Bear
>> fire, we would expect the water to rise much faster. Pumping any
>water
>> from FSC is impractical.
>>
>>  - Pete
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:46 PM, John Lyles > > wrote:
>>
>> But Ft. Stanton Cave in NM is definitely a place to be careful. Far
>> south on Snowy River was being pushed and mapped in 2014, and by
>> August it began flooding. Midnight Junction camp hasn't seen cavers  
>
>> since then, although we are hoping the present drying trend remains
>at
>> least until fall there.
>>
>> Sent from BlueMail 
>> On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:38 PM, Peter Jones > > wrote:
>>
>> Having been a caver in the Guads for 49 years, I can say that
>there have not been a lot of issues of flooding of our caves to the
>point where they might cause some serious problems.  That does not mean
>that the caves won’t flood, just that the number that are likely to are
>pretty limited.  Vanishing River Cave, which drains many square miles
>of canyons upstream from its location, would certainly be considered a
>no-entry cave during flooding season.  I’ve been in Carlsbad (town)
>several times when there have been real frog strangling rain and the
>normally empty river beds have been boiling with torrents of rushing
>water.  Had to even drive up to McCollum’s Ranch in a torrential
>downpour to pick up a friend who decided to hike the Guadalupe Ridge
>Trail from the Lookout Tower to Carlsbad Caverns National Park and got
>lost somewhere around Putman Cabin and had to double back that same
>night, arriving at the Lookout Tower Cabin around 3 AM, totally
>drenched to the bone.  He hiked down the following day and I met up
>with him just before McCollum’s Ranch to drive him back into town.  The
>flooding was unbelievable!!  Other caves that lie in the bottom of
>major drainages could certainly be a major problem for cavers who don’t
>pay attention to the weather.  A lot of the gyp caves and those like
>Spider Cave could be a real problem.  I also remember the day that I
>first dropped into Andy’s Cave with Tom Meador into virgin cave and
>came back to the entrance a couple of hours later to a waterfall
>pouring down the entrance drop and beginning to fill the canyon side of
>the 65’ deep drop.  It ended after the rain stopped, but it was
>certainly a wet climb out of there after that torrential event.
>>
>> Just a reminder that we should all be careful about rain (and
>snow in the winter) when we go caving.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Geary Schindel
>> > > wrote: Penny, Yes,
>> we’re trying to get our message out as most caves don’t
>> respond to rainfall like this one does. However, we have had
>> our share of rain induced tragedies and close calls in the
>US.
>> I’ve spent a lot of time looking at major rain events and
>> collected some very interesting hydrograph data on the
>> response of groundwater levels (and caves) to flooding. Many
>a
>> day, I’ve walked away from caving in low lying caves when
>> there is a chance of rain. When I worked for the NPS in the
>> Mammoth Cave area, we worked a cave where the first 3,000
>feet
>> of passage would flood to the ceiling. The entrance was in
>the
>> bottom of a large sinkhole that drained an area of about 300
>> acres. We watched the weather very carefully. The issue
>wasn’t
>> when we were going in but when 

Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[David]

When was the last time you saw this much attention to someone that died in
a cave ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fxU3SEiY4

One thing not being reported in the news is that it has now been close to
15 days since the boys
probably spent any time with their mommies. I can't go a week without
seeing my mommy.I won't
have her for much longer.I have to cherish every visit, but
unfortunately, she is a little grouchy
these days.We don't get to visit as often anymore, even though she just
retired two weeks ago.
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[David]

a cave diving animation for non-cave-divers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KDih-WyODA
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Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[Katherine Arens]

things disappear off facebook, and there’s a bunch there, too.

On Jul 6, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Mark Minton 
mailto:mmin...@illinoisalumni.org>> wrote:


No worry about the Pete Strickland posts (or any others) disappearing. You can 
get all of the old Texascavers content online from the Google Groups CaveTex 
archive . However, it would be 
handier if someone did collect them all in one place.

Mark Minton
mmim...@caver.net

On Thu, 5 Jul, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Katherine Arens 
mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

and can someone volunteer to collect all the posts for Jocie  &co. before they 
disappear?   I can’t . . .
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Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
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 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '



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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave

[Pete Lindsley]

And after the last day’s reports of low O2, we found out that the Thai cave air 
pocket where the boys are located is likely not being refreshed with cave air, 
so there are likely sumps on both sides of their chamber. This fact, plus the 
unfortunate death of the Thai Seal Team diver, is illustrating the danger of 
caves known to quickly flood during heavy rains. I recall a previous instance 
decades ago in Rowland Cave, AR, where a rescue diver apparently died from the 
bends following a recent airplane travel to the site (where the cabin pressure 
is normally reduced) just prior to his dive.

I don’t think the lack of O2 in a poorly defined location would be an issue in 
FSC because of the strong cave wind. But this also illustrates the importance 
of future radio locations at possible locations for surface drill locations. We 
currently have an approved proposal to get a new radio location “off to the 
side” of Snowy River at station SRS556B, only about 1000 feet from the Midnight 
Junction camp which is just over 10 miles from the entrance. 

 - Pete

On Jul 5, 2018, at 4:52 PM, John Corcoran III  
wrote:

Thanks Pete.  At least it would be possible to drill a rescue portal if needed 
– and lots of places to stay above water.
 
Regards,
 
John
 
From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com  
mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Pete Lindsley
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 12:13 PM
To: John Lyles mailto:j...@losalamos.com>>
Cc: Peter Jones mailto:pjca...@gwi.net>>; Geary Schindel 
mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>>; Penelope 
Boston mailto:penelope.bos...@nmt.edu>>; Lee Skinner 
mailto:skin...@thuntek.net>>; N E W L I S T Southwestern 
Cavers of the National Speleological Society mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>>; Texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>; Sandia Grotto 
mailto:sandia-grotto-of-the-national-speleological-soci...@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] The rescue attempt is far from over in the Thai cave
 
In Fort Stanton Cave the Aug 2014 team found that the water was very slowly 
flowing towards them when they were about halfway to MJ, and there was no 
danger here. It took about a month for the flow to reach Turtle Junction, an 
easy mile from the entrance. We may be able to determine if the Mud Lizard 
(~2.4 miles from the entrance) sumps during heavy flows, once we exchange the 
water loggers at this critical point. But if the area gets another storm like 
Hurricane Dolly, plus with the removal of vegetation following the Little Bear 
fire, we would expect the water to rise much faster. Pumping any water from FSC 
is impractical.
 
 - Pete
 
On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:46 PM, John Lyles mailto:j...@losalamos.com>> wrote:
 
But Ft. Stanton Cave in NM is definitely a place to be careful. Far south on 
Snowy River was being pushed and mapped in 2014, and by August it began 
flooding. Midnight Junction camp hasn't seen cavers   since then, although we 
are hoping the present drying trend remains at least until fall there.

Sent from BlueMail 
On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:38 PM, Peter Jones mailto:pjca...@gwi.net>> wrote:
Having been a caver in the Guads for 49 years, I can say that there have not 
been a lot of issues of flooding of our caves to the point where they might 
cause some serious problems.  That does not mean that the caves won’t flood, 
just that the number that are likely to are pretty limited.  Vanishing River 
Cave, which drains many square miles of canyons upstream from its location, 
would certainly be considered a no-entry cave during flooding season.  I’ve 
been in Carlsbad (town) several times when there have been real frog strangling 
rain and the normally empty river beds have been boiling with torrents of 
rushing water.  Had to even drive up to McCollum’s Ranch in a torrential 
downpour to pick up a friend who decided to hike the Guadalupe Ridge Trail from 
the Lookout Tower to Carlsbad Caverns National Park and got lost somewhere 
around Putman Cabin and had to double back that same night, arriving at the 
Lookout Tower Cabin around 3 AM, totally drenched to the bone.  He hiked down 
the following day and I met up with him just before McCollum’s Ranch to drive 
him back into town.  The flooding was unbelievable!!  Other caves that lie in 
the bottom of major drainages could certainly be a major problem for cavers who 
don’t pay attention to the weather.  A lot of the gyp caves and those like 
Spider Cave could be a real problem.  I also remember the day that I first 
dropped into Andy’s Cave with Tom Meador into virgin cave and came back to the 
entrance a couple of hours later to a waterfall pouring down the entrance drop 
and beginning to fill the canyon side of the 65’ deep drop.  It ended after the 
rain stopped, but it was certainly a wet climb out of there after that 
torrential event.  

Just a reminder that we should all be careful about rain (and snow in the 
winter) when we go cavi

Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[Mark Minton]

No worry about the Pete Strickland posts (or any others) disappearing. You can 
get all of the old Texascavers content online from the Google Groups CaveTex 
archive . However, it would be 
handier if someone did collect them all in one place.

Mark Minton
mmim...@caver.net


On Thu, 5 Jul, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Katherine Arens  wrote:
 
and can someone volunteer to collect all the posts for Jocie  &co. before they 
disappear?   I can’t . . .  ___
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[Texascavers] Thai culture

[David]

I have watched about 10 hours of Thai YouTube videos in the past week.

Have you ever seen anything like this hobby before ?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyA1_m-OlhA

Apparently there is so much methane in the soil of the waterways ( at least
in this area )
that locals can easily set it on fire.

Construction works have now run a real electric and telephone lines to the
command
center, presumably from the nearby town. There is a new telephone pole
at the command
center with transformers on it.

I think that now officially beats any other cave rescue.

D.L.
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