Re: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee
As usual, the Feds.(BLM included) like to ignore the 10th amendment and just follow their own rules. But I think that is why they wrote that one. Would a change of venue be called for? Bill Ellis 7787 - Original Message - From: "Steve Peerman" To: "Mailing List for SWR" Cc: "Debbie Buecher" Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee All, Wayne and I attended a meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee this morning in Ruidoso. We were there at the request of Chuck Schmidt and Doug Burger. The reason for their request was that the BLM is intending to provide more open access to the public land where Crockett's Cave is located. There are 87 sections of public land in that area that have no open access. There are three roads into the area. All of these are located on private land and gated and locked at the highway by various ranchers. As I understand it, the BLM is mandated to provide access to public lands where feasible. The only feasible access, other than the existing roads that go across private lands is to build a road on state land that is adjacent to Hwy 380. BLM would prefer not to build a new road, but if an agreement cannot be found with one or more of the ranchers, then they and the NM Game and Fish dept. will work jointly to build a new road. Chuck Schmidt spoke on behalf of the BLM and there was a NM Game & Fish spokesman as well, though I do not recall his name. There were several ranchers present at the meeting, and they all said that they will allow anyone who asks them to access the public land, that they have never denied anyone access to the land, and they think the way things are working now is fine. (The way things work now is that you have to call one of these folks, and they will come open the gate for you to go in, and open it again when you go out. In the case of someone getting a permit to Crockett's Cave, Mike calls the rancher to let them know that someone will be there, and gives the combination to the gate to the permittee.) There were several hunters in the audience and some other wilderness and/or public land advocates along with Wayne and myself. Some spoke up in favor of more open access. I identified myself as part of the Fort Stanton Cave Study Project and said that I understood the difficulties that the ranchers face, and that I, myself had never experienced any problems with the present arrangements. However, public land is just that, and I felt that all of us had the right to be there and use the land in any responsible way any time we wanted to, and that the present arrangement was a hindrance to being able to do that. The meeting was very civil, but it was obvious that there was little support for BLM's position. The committee voted unanimously to recommend to the county commission that the present situation be continued. (However, it is my understanding that what this committee or the county commission wants doesn't really have much weight.) What is perhaps of more interest to cavers is that Wayne and I talked to two of the ranchers after the meeting -- Mr. Grider and Mr. Kinser -- and they both said that they liked cavers, and that we were always welcome to come. So regardless of how this works out in the end for BLM, we (the cavers) have a good reputation at the moment. Let's hope we can keep it that way. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee
As usual, the Feds.(BLM included) like to ignore the 10th amendment and just follow their own rules. But I think that is why they wrote that one. Would a change of venue be called for? Bill Ellis 7787 - Original Message - From: "Steve Peerman" To: "Mailing List for SWR" Cc: "Debbie Buecher" Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee All, Wayne and I attended a meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee this morning in Ruidoso. We were there at the request of Chuck Schmidt and Doug Burger. The reason for their request was that the BLM is intending to provide more open access to the public land where Crockett's Cave is located. There are 87 sections of public land in that area that have no open access. There are three roads into the area. All of these are located on private land and gated and locked at the highway by various ranchers. As I understand it, the BLM is mandated to provide access to public lands where feasible. The only feasible access, other than the existing roads that go across private lands is to build a road on state land that is adjacent to Hwy 380. BLM would prefer not to build a new road, but if an agreement cannot be found with one or more of the ranchers, then they and the NM Game and Fish dept. will work jointly to build a new road. Chuck Schmidt spoke on behalf of the BLM and there was a NM Game & Fish spokesman as well, though I do not recall his name. There were several ranchers present at the meeting, and they all said that they will allow anyone who asks them to access the public land, that they have never denied anyone access to the land, and they think the way things are working now is fine. (The way things work now is that you have to call one of these folks, and they will come open the gate for you to go in, and open it again when you go out. In the case of someone getting a permit to Crockett's Cave, Mike calls the rancher to let them know that someone will be there, and gives the combination to the gate to the permittee.) There were several hunters in the audience and some other wilderness and/or public land advocates along with Wayne and myself. Some spoke up in favor of more open access. I identified myself as part of the Fort Stanton Cave Study Project and said that I understood the difficulties that the ranchers face, and that I, myself had never experienced any problems with the present arrangements. However, public land is just that, and I felt that all of us had the right to be there and use the land in any responsible way any time we wanted to, and that the present arrangement was a hindrance to being able to do that. The meeting was very civil, but it was obvious that there was little support for BLM's position. The committee voted unanimously to recommend to the county commission that the present situation be continued. (However, it is my understanding that what this committee or the county commission wants doesn't really have much weight.) What is perhaps of more interest to cavers is that Wayne and I talked to two of the ranchers after the meeting -- Mr. Grider and Mr. Kinser -- and they both said that they liked cavers, and that we were always welcome to come. So regardless of how this works out in the end for BLM, we (the cavers) have a good reputation at the moment. Let's hope we can keep it that way. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee
As usual, the Feds.(BLM included) like to ignore the 10th amendment and just follow their own rules. But I think that is why they wrote that one. Would a change of venue be called for? Bill Ellis 7787 - Original Message - From: "Steve Peerman" To: "Mailing List for SWR" Cc: "Debbie Buecher" Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: [SWR] Meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee All, Wayne and I attended a meeting of the Lincoln County Land Resource Advisory Committee this morning in Ruidoso. We were there at the request of Chuck Schmidt and Doug Burger. The reason for their request was that the BLM is intending to provide more open access to the public land where Crockett's Cave is located. There are 87 sections of public land in that area that have no open access. There are three roads into the area. All of these are located on private land and gated and locked at the highway by various ranchers. As I understand it, the BLM is mandated to provide access to public lands where feasible. The only feasible access, other than the existing roads that go across private lands is to build a road on state land that is adjacent to Hwy 380. BLM would prefer not to build a new road, but if an agreement cannot be found with one or more of the ranchers, then they and the NM Game and Fish dept. will work jointly to build a new road. Chuck Schmidt spoke on behalf of the BLM and there was a NM Game & Fish spokesman as well, though I do not recall his name. There were several ranchers present at the meeting, and they all said that they will allow anyone who asks them to access the public land, that they have never denied anyone access to the land, and they think the way things are working now is fine. (The way things work now is that you have to call one of these folks, and they will come open the gate for you to go in, and open it again when you go out. In the case of someone getting a permit to Crockett's Cave, Mike calls the rancher to let them know that someone will be there, and gives the combination to the gate to the permittee.) There were several hunters in the audience and some other wilderness and/or public land advocates along with Wayne and myself. Some spoke up in favor of more open access. I identified myself as part of the Fort Stanton Cave Study Project and said that I understood the difficulties that the ranchers face, and that I, myself had never experienced any problems with the present arrangements. However, public land is just that, and I felt that all of us had the right to be there and use the land in any responsible way any time we wanted to, and that the present arrangement was a hindrance to being able to do that. The meeting was very civil, but it was obvious that there was little support for BLM's position. The committee voted unanimously to recommend to the county commission that the present situation be continued. (However, it is my understanding that what this committee or the county commission wants doesn't really have much weight.) What is perhaps of more interest to cavers is that Wayne and I talked to two of the ranchers after the meeting -- Mr. Grider and Mr. Kinser -- and they both said that they liked cavers, and that we were always welcome to come. So regardless of how this works out in the end for BLM, we (the cavers) have a good reputation at the moment. Let's hope we can keep it that way. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these "scientists" cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, "Wake Up, and Smell The Guano". This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these "scientists" cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, "Wake Up, and Smell The Guano". This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these "scientists" cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, "Wake Up, and Smell The Guano". This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[NMCAVER] Politics and caving,,,, loosing our balance.
I have been caving for quite some time and have seen trends come and go. But the current trend is something of a worry to those of us who value our public lands and our freedoms. All of us need to understand where the government and the "green movement" are actually taking us. This may include indoctrinating our youth through "Americas great outdoors initiative". Please take the time to view the videos at this site for some balance to your perspective. http://www.takingliberty.us/TLHome.html Sincerely, Bill Ellis NSS 7787 ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] USFS Region 2 cave closures coming
Jen and John and all,, John, I think you have hit the nail on the head. The evidence at this point indicates that the primary mode of transmission of WNS is bat to bat. There was even one cave back east that had no human visitation where WNS had devastated the bat population. Caver visits as a source of transmission are probably so low that they can't be proven. At least at this point. The closures may seem to be over-kill for the situation but what they will do is allow those bats with some resistance to WNS a better chance at recovery. Those that have the resistance and survive will be the seed population and gene pool for the bat colonies of the future. WNS will run it's course. Jen, first a thanks for all your work with the bats and the NSS. Many kudos for doing the not so fun stuff so the rest of us can enjoy caving. THANKS. There are caves out there that the bats do not use, Lech and many of the malpias caves come to mind at once. It should not be hard to get the Forest Service or any of the other government agencies to make acceptations of these caves during the closure.(I hope.) Things like our bat counts become important here. As you can see, all that work becomes more important now. We both remember when there was much resistance to our efforts. ALSO: The epidemiology of WNS will need to be monitored, so some visitations for scientific monitoring will have to be done in the caves used for hibernation. I'm sure there are many microbiologists, etc. who can't wait to get their hands on the data collected from this rare type of fungal attack. Total closure and the enforcement efforts required are probably not warranted with current knowledge. Closure of hibernating sites and caves used regularly by bats is prudent. Knee jerk regulations rarely have the desired effects. Bill - Original Message - From: John Lyles To: jen . ; nmcaver Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:35 AM Subject: [NMCAVER] USFS Region 2 cave closures coming Hey Jen (and all): OPINION POST You read me wrong, I don't oppose coordination. I believe that USFS decisions are not always based on careful decision analysis, including all the impacts besides the federally-mandated ones, like endangered species act or other laws. We have witnessed this many times in New Mexico over the years. In this case there is a major impact on the humans-cavers who are the main trustees of caves, besides the critters who use them. We have not heard much concern over this aspect. For example, one recent proposal from a different group (non government) suggested to close all federally-owned caves period. From what I have read of it, the upcoming change in region 2 has caught a lot of Colorado cavers unexpectedly. Better communication with the USFS managers, esp biologists, may have been helpful here, early on. Then I read that some cavers are in the loop, so it starts to sound like a cluster and everyone has an opinion. This always happens, sigh... I believe that it is naive to think that administratively we can stop the spread of WNS, which has steadily advanced across states. West Nile virus did the same thing in some avaian species (and horses). If we need to stay out of caves, then we stay out of caves, and give bats a chance to survive on their own. They will probably carry and spread the disease on their own, without our help. Humans should offer whatever scientific support we can to try and understand and/or erradicate the fungus or source of WNS. Caving projects and recreation may need to take a break to allow this. Being a squeaky wheel to resist this is not the only productive method. We all wish for a successful Colorado convention in 2011, and have offered our help in various tasks in Glenwood Springs and in adjacent NM areas for field trips. If caves are closed, then we'll entertain ourselves with other venues, and enjoy talks and presentations. jtml -Original message- From: "jen ." bigredfo...@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:44:14 -0600 To: j...@vla.com Subject: RE: [NMCAVER] USFS Region 2 cave closures coming > I'm really sorry to hear you say that. > > I am hoping that cavers can work together to communicate with the cave mana> gers and not be disorganized. > NM and CO can learn from each other how to handle this crisis and can work > together to be a bigger squeaky wheel. > > Colorado is getting ready to host convention next year. It would be nice i> f we supported them in any way we can. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
Mark, I agree with your statement accept for one line; "It takes a great many spores to start a viable colony of fungus, not just one." Unlike man's problems with histos spores, the WNS will propagate from just one spore. But your last statement being true would negate any debate. The bats will remain the primary mode of transmission. The problem is very much like humans trying to stop the spread of the cold or flu virus. The bats won't listen to the CDC and don't show their papers when crossing state or national borders!! Bill Ellis - Original Message - From: Mark Minton To: nmca...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention The idea of a convention in NM is not necessarily a threat to bats. The best evidence of that is that there was a large NSS Convention in Indiana in 2007, after WNS had appeared in the Northeast but before anyone knew much about it, and before there was any effort to decon gear or limit caving. Lots of cavers from the Northeast came to Indiana, yet WNS has still not appeared there. Cavers may be able to spread WNS, but they are obviously not a very efficient vector. It takes a great many spores to start a viable colony of fungus, not just one. With a gear loan program and decon stations on site, I think the risk is minimal. It'll likely get there on its own beforehand anyway. Mark Minton ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
