Re: [Texascavers] James Jasek Update

[speodesmus]

Dear Mimi. Thanks for the report on Jim’s status and broken hip. That’s tough. 
Wishing you both the best. Maybe I could come up from Georgetown sometime to 
visit y’all. I would like to help and don’t want to be waited on. 

Thanks

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mimi Jasek  wrote:

Hello Everyone,

It has been a while. Jim is still hanging in, but weaker physically as I 
predicted. He will be 81 this year, and was doing great till @ Sunday night. 
His replaced left knee began to hurt severely when he would get up to go to 
bed. By Wednesday I had him using his walker in the house, but he was fine on 
Thursday when I went to work. I got home @ 6:38 and turned into the den after 
calling hello. He met me with “Hi, Mimi! I am so glad your home! I fell and 
think I broke my leg!” He was sitting in his recliner with left leg out in 
front straight out. He kept wanting me to get him up. ( It was a Thursday night 
when I came home and found him comatose from his stroke too. Not a fun pattern.)

So 911 and hospital ER. Unfortunately doc there took Jim as weak, old guy who 
fell. Took scans and X-ray and finally came back and said nothing broken so we 
can’t admit him and will start wheels turning to get him into rehab. It will 
take a while. Another doc came on later and I really fussed about his knee - as 
far as I knew from Jim cause of fall! Another doc, my fussing, PT eval and fact 
that two men could not get him up got us admitted by noon Friday.

Due to blood thinner, had to wait till Monday afternoon to aspirate knee. Fluid 
had blood but no pus. Evidently first thing they look for in replaced joints 
that suddenly start hurting is infection. So cultures started, but Tuesday morn 
brought ortho guy saying not enough evidence yet to go in and clean out knee. 
Scans did not show anything out of place with replacement.

For some reason they took him back for another X-ray, and results confirmed why 
he could not move leg and fussed so when turned in bed.  His left hip broken! 
Turned out ER doc DID NOT x-ray hip, just knee!!! Me and ortho guy not happy, 
he was apologetic, but let’s get this fixed. He is a trauma bone guy. 

If you can have a good broken hip, he said Jim did. Top of femur, below ball, 
and in a small window that can make all the difference. Arthroscopic surgery, 3 
small incisions, couple of smaller rods and voila! @ 1:00 tomorrow, and this 
fix meant to be walked on right away. If all goes well, 2-3 more days in 
hospital the transfer to rehab.

I am having deja vu of Bill Russell and Pete Strickland. Jim’s recovery from 
his stroke event different, and fall due to collapsed knee as far as we can 
tell by fall site at home. I asked doc if his hip could have been the problem 
all along, but he said no. We know Jim went down hard on knee, and could have 
hit hip on very solid side/leg of recliner on way down. We will never know.

Stats for recovery not helpful on this, so any prayers or positive thoughts 
would be appreciated. Due to lingering issues from stroke and some other 
things, doc said if Jim makes his 6 month check up at his office, his chances 
for survival of more than a year go way up! So goal! A lot up to him though, 
and me. Lots of hard work ahead for both of us.  I still have to work @ 30 
hours a week too for normal financial stability. I have always told him I want 
minimum 50 years, and we are coming up on 47. His mom survived a broken hip and 
lived to be 103, but had not had a stroke. 

Hope you are as well as possible, staying safe, and going caving. Wish my post 
was on a happier note.

Respectfully,

Mimi Jasek

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited

[speodesmus]

Thanks for leveling with us, Dwight. 

Doing the inclinations was hard going handheld. All I ever owned were two Army 
Bruntons. Suuntos were a big change!

And thanks to Carl for his good article. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Dwight Deal  wrote:



Carl Kunath wrote an excellent historical article on the use of the old Brunton 
compass in cave surveying.  Unfortunately, the major source of error was not 
clearly noted. 



That error is not having the Brunton as near perfectly level as possible when 
you make the sighting.  A tripod helps if you pay attention, but it is possible 
to make accurate sights hand-held as well. 



I taught Herb Conn how to survey with a Brunton in 1959, and in many miles of 
hand-held Jewel Cave survey loops our error was consistently on the order of ½ 
of 1%.  Keeping it level was the key. Considerable contortions were sometimes 
required of the surveyor, however.



DirtDoc



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Re: [Texascavers] Vico Jones awarded NSS Fellow

[speodesmus]

Felicidades y saludos para ti, Vico. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
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On Jul 30, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:

https://youtu.be/ubabol2EmAs?list=PLkJ4rpBxQOl3phsnRtCkNVdeGjYQ4DOka___
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Re: [Texascavers] Back in Texas

[speodesmus]

Hi y’all!

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2021, at 7:32 AM, AC  wrote:

Welcome home!

Allan

Smart phone, stupid autocorrect

> On Jul 25, 2021, at 9:10 PM, cavefault  wrote:
> 
> 
> Welcome home doctor. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: "William R. Elliott" 
> Date: 7/25/21 7:55 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Back in Texas
> 
> Dear friends,
> 
> Gayle and I just moved to Georgetown, Texas. We live at:
> 
> 30105 Briarcrest Court
> Georgetown, TX 78628
>  
> [please don’t repeat that on Facebook]
>  
> My email and cell phone remain speodes...@gmail.com and 573-291-5093
>  
> My wife, Gayle Unruh, is at unruhga...@gmail.com, 573-291-5094
>  
> I was born in Midland and grew up in Georgetown. I also lived in Vernon, 
> Austin, Lubbock, and Harlingen. I worked in Texas, Mexico,  Belize, western 
> states from California to Alaska, Oklahoma and Missouri. In 1998 I became the 
> cave biologist for the Missouri Department of Conservation, retiring there in 
> 2012. Gayle and I met in Jefferson City, Missouri. She came from Kansas, is a 
> biologist and an art quilter, and has lived in Texas before. We have family 
> in Austin, Gonzales, and Kansas.
> 
> It’s great to be back in my hometown!
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Nevin Davis

[speodesmus]

Nevin inspired a bunch of us to explore the Cuetzalan area of northern Puebla 
in Dec. 1973. We found more caves and rich biology. He made many contributions 
to caving. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 20, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Mark Minton  wrote:


Well-known Pennsylvania, Virginia and Hawaii caver Nevin Davis passed away last 
week. In the early days he made a couple of very significant trips to Mexico. 
He published the first definitive study of the caves of Cuetzalan in AMCS 
Newsletter Vol. 4, no. 5-6 (1974) (free download at 
). John Wilson recently posted a 
bunch of photos of him, mostly in Hawaii, on Facebook at 
. You may recognize some other 
cavers in a few of those, including Bill Liebman. An obituary is being 
compiled, which I can forward for the Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers when it 
is complete.
 
Mark Minton
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Bentley

[speodesmus]

Dear Bill. I am with you in spirit. Thanks for telling us about this, and let 
us know about your trips and outreach. I'd like to talk with you on the phone 
soon. 

Buena suerte amigo,

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:


Greetings fellow cavers, 
As some of you may know already.. but I have 2 more tests to rule out a 
diagnosis of something they call "Lewy Bodies Dementia". But I have all of the 
symptoms. I have known myself that something was not right for quite a while. I 
was glad to finally get some answers that made sense. My family and friends 
have been wonderful in their support so far. I hope to soon be making a few 
bucket list trips. I also am trying to make the conscience effort to be upbeat 
and positive through it all until such time as I can't.
God bless all my friends and people that care.
I will try to post as much as is possible.
Take care and try to make someone smile and brighten their day and think of me. 
Keep the undying spirit of exploration going. 
Bill
-- 
This email comes from Bill Bentley
ca...@caver.net 

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Re: [Texascavers] Updated obituaries

[speodesmus]

Bless your heart Carol. 

I am now a living fossil. Probably upper Cretaceous period. Feeling kind of 
stiff and rudistid. 😁

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2020, at 2:10 PM, Carol W Russell  wrote:


Bill, thanks for doing this. Some of these people are names only to the younger 
cavers. It's good to have them memorialized. Carol

> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:39 PM William R. Elliott  
> wrote:
> Please visit http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm for the updated tribute to 
> Mason Estes, or go directly to http://cavelife.info/hall/EstesM.pdf. 
> 
> This one has several photos of the Huautla Expedition members in 1988, 
> including Mason, thanks to several contributors -- Mark Minton, Bill Steele, 
> Jim Smith, Lee Perry, and Susan Hardcastle Beaty.
> 
> A minor correction was made in Bennie Pearson's obituary, courtesy of Sam 
> Young. Dr. Pearson taught at the University of Missouri at Kansas City.
> 
> You might need to make your browser refresh (reload) those pages to see the 
> new ones.
> 
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> speodes...@gmail.com
> 
> 573-291-5093 cell
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Chiquiihuite Cave at 9,000 ft

[speodesmus]

The AMCS database has no cave in that huge area of Zacatecas. Sure would like 
more info and the map. 

Thanks,

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:

Diana says she gets Nature and she’ll take care of it. 

> On Jul 24, 2020, at 12:09 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wonder if any "cavers" knew about this 10 year on-going excavation at 9,000 
> ft in the state of Zacatecas, 400 miles nw of Mexico City? Did the AMCS have 
> any info?
> 
> Wonder who discovered this cave?  Year? The sketch map makes the cave appear 
> not that big...but I big enough for world attention.
> 
> Appears those responsible for the project did a great job protecting the cave.
> 
> Anyone have the Nature issue with this breaking story? Bill Mixon frequently 
> referred to Nature, a peer reviewed magazine.
> 
> Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY
> 
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:51 PM, Logan
>  wrote:
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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[speodesmus]

Muchisimas gracias mi amiga!

William R. (Bill) Elliott
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On Nov 6, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Jules Jenkins  wrote:

Incredible Bill! I can only imagine how many hours you’ve already invested in 
this project. A massive undertaking! Very impressive.
Thank you so much on behalf of cavers still living, and those in the great 
‘mile deep’ underneath us ALL! 

Jules

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 


Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at 
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm 

I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these came 
from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates whenever I 
could.

This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get all of 
the rest done back to 1960. 

You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed away 24 
October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert, Barry Beck, 
Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your friends, and the 
"Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I need more information.

Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] John Fish photo

[speodesmus]

Well, you are Charlie. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2019, at 12:35 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:

Another one of a kind. I guess we are all one of a kind? 

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 11:01 AM Carl Kunath  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> More sad news this morning.   John Fish has died.
>  
> After many years with no contact, with some urging and assistance, John came 
> to the 2015 TCR
> and old friendships were renewed.
>  
> Farewell to Juan Pescado.
> We are diminished.
>  
> ===Carl Kunath
>  
>  
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avast.com
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Mexican Bat

[speodesmus]

Lack of a tail hints at freetail but the head and ears say not. Bad photo, no 
scale, no face photo = no certain i.d. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2019, at 6:16 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:

Looks like the bats that hang out behind the sign at a lodge here in Deer Corn. 
There are six or seven of them there just hanging out. Mexican Free Tails?

> On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 5:38 PM Mike Flannigan  wrote:
> 
> Wondering if any of you can take a stab at
> identifying what kind of bat this is:
> 
> "Inside El Rosario National Park there's an old,
> abandoned sawmill. In a stone-lined pit beneath
> the floor, a black bat dangled upside-down, back-leg
> claws anchoring him on the wall. The bat's dark form
> suggested a small, eared owl with glowing eyes
> staring right at us, maybe unnerving some predators
> wary of owls.
> 
> If anyone can identify this bat I'd be glad to hear
> from them."
> 
> Picture of the back of the bat:
> http://www.mflan.com/temp/bat.jpg
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Bats in Spring Creek Cave, Kendall Co.

[speodesmus]

Probably would not be freetails but Myotis velifer (cave myotis). We are on the 
road in Texas and I don't have my lit. here to check. Jim Kennedy might know. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:38 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:

Two weeks ago I took a trip to Spring Creek Cave, Kendall Co., Texas, near Cave 
Without a Name. I’ve been there many times before. Over the past few years 
friends and I have pushed and mapped all of its tributaries. 

I had never before taken a trip to the cave in the summer when I thought there 
was a sizable population of Mexican free-tail bats utilizing it as a maternity 
cave. We were surprised that only five bats were seen, expecting to see 
hundreds, if not thousands. 

What can someone tell me about what’s known about the bats of Spring Creek 
Cave? 

Bill Steele 
speleoste...@aol.com 
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!

[speodesmus]

George is good guy folks. I appreciate George!

On Jun 8, 2019, at 10:48 AM, Ken Harrington  wrote:

George,
You did good and several local people were able to attend because of your 
notice.
I applaud your efforts to get the word out even if it was at the last minute.
Ken

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 8, 2019, at 9:20 AM, George Veni  wrote:

> I don’t see the point to this repeated criticism. I started my announcement 
> with an apology for sending it at the last minute because it was clear that 
> it would be too late for many people. I sent it because it may not be too 
> late for some and I thought it would be good to include them. If my 
> circumstances allowed me to send the announcement earlier, I obviously would 
> have.
>  
> If anyone has further complaints about my sharing information over lists 
> designed to share information, please do so privately.
>  
> George
>  
> From: Jerry  
> Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2019 06:01
> To: George Veni ; swrcav...@googlegroups.com; 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!
>  
> Well George,
>  
> If it was important, why did you give us 4 hours notice before the meeting ?  
> Even If I lived in Carlsbad, I probably wouldn't have noticed your email 
> until it was either too late or had prior engagements.
>  
> If you wanted to be inclusive, send meeting notices earlier.  As it was, it 
> appears as a last moment "oops" or worse, just covering yourself for planning 
> in reverse.
>  
> I believe the Region would like to hear of Zoe's results if she is around 
> during the upcoming Winter Tech. I promise we won't give her 4 hours notice.
>  
> Jerry Atkinson.
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: George Veni 
> To: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers 
> 
> Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2019 10:00 pm
> Subject: RE: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!
> 
> Why bother to post? I thought the reasons were obvious but since asked:
> 
> * I don't have the e-mail address of everyone who might be interested in 
> attending.
> 
> * There are a notable number of people on the New Mexico and Texas e-lists 
> within relatively easy travel range of Carlsbad who could make it with the 
> short 4-hour advance notice I gave.
> 
> * Many cavers outside of the immediate Carlsbad area travel regularly to 
> Carlsbad, especially on Fridays, and they night be in the area and would miss 
> announcements sent only to locals.
> 
> * I believe it is important to be inclusive, not exclusive, in getting people 
> news that might interest them.
> 
> * I see no harm in sharing announcements, even if at the last minute, in case 
> some might benefit from them.
> 
> In the end, the lecture went well and the room was packed. I don't know if 
> any people attended due to my announcement, but I noticed several who might 
> have.
> 
> George
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: jerryat...@aol.com  
> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 15:51
> To: George Veni 
> Cc: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers 
> 
> Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!
> 
> Jeez, George. Why did you even bother to post?  Hopefully, we’ll get to hear 
> more at the SWR Winter Tech. 
> 
> Jerry Atkinson. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jun 7, 2019, at 12:03 PM, George Veni  wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Friends,
> > 
> > I apologize for this last-minute notice. If you are in the Carlsbad area 
> > this afternoon, please consider a visit to Carlsbad Caverns National Park 
> > at 4 p.m. for a free public lecture by Zoë Havlena.
> > 
> > Have you ever thought about the green stuff growing near lights in show 
> > caves? Folks call it "algae" but the proper name is "lampenflora." It is 
> > unsightly, damages caves, and has been a problem in need of a solution for 
> > over a hundred years. The National Park Service funded NCKRI to study the 
> > situation, and we have been working with professors and students at New 
> > Mexico Tech to come up with answers. Zoë's work covers the first of two 
> > phases of the study. Attached is flyer with details. Feel free to share 
> > this announcement and to come hear Zoë this afternoon and see what she has 
> > found.
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > 
> > George  Veni, PhD
> > Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) 
> > and President, International Union of Speleology (UIS)
> > 
> > NCKRI address (primary)
> > 400-1 Cascades Avenue
> > Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA
> > Office: +575-887-5517
> > Mobile: +210-863-6919
> > Fax: +575-887-5523
> > gv...@nckri.org
> > www.nckri.org
> > 
> > UIS address
> > Titov trg 2
> > Postojna, 6230 Slovenia
> > www.uis-speleo.org
> > 
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop recei

Re: [Texascavers] TC issue

[speodesmus]

Mike Collins, Charlie Yates, Doug Allen...

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:

And Bob Oakley too. The list is very long when you get it out.

> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 6:39 PM Carl Kunath  
> wrote:
> Please don’t forget David McKenzie and perhaps a few others . . . .
> ===Carl Kunath
>  
> From: grub...@centurytel.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:28 PM
> To: texascavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] TC issue
>  
> I'd like to float the idea of  doing a couple memorial issues of the Texas 
> Caver for William Russell, Bill Mixon, Pete Strickland, Lee Jay Graves and 
> Don Broussard.  We did so much with those fellows,  They did so much for 
> caving.  If folks wrote stories of caving with them, personal recollections 
> from days gone by, articles about ways they contributed to our cause it would 
> make a large addition to our shared history 
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> 
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] 5 pm Thursday update: William Russell

[speodesmus]

I met Bill Russell in 1967 when I was  a UT student. He took me and others 
caving off the trails at Inner Space Cavern, where we worked together.  We 
guides were in awe of Bill. We were 20 or 21 and he was 29 and had explored 
hundreds of caves already. He made us all more knowledgeable guides. By a few 
months later I was mapping a big bat cave in Mexico with Bill. Then cavefish 
work in the El Abra and many trips in Texas. Thank you Bill. And thank you too 
Katie and all those close to Bill. 

Bill Elliott

On Mar 21, 2019, at 8:18 PM, AC  wrote:

Katie, my thoughts are with you. Thank you for all you did. Hugs to you. 

Allan

Smart phone, stupid autocorrect

> On Mar 21, 2019, at 8:10 PM, Susan Hardcastle Beaty  
> wrote:
> 
> So sorry to hear this.  Thank you, Katie.
>  
> From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of 
> Katherine Arens
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:08 PM
> To: Texascavers 
> Subject: [Texascavers] 5 pm Thursday update: William Russell
>  
>  stopped breathing and went caving about twenty minutes ago. He's left the 
> building. 
> 
> Katherine Arens
>Phones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu
>   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies
> FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300 
> Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin
> Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>  
>  
>  
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Re: [Texascavers] critters in caves

[speodesmus]

Never heard, read, or saw that. That sounds unlikely

On Jan 31, 2019, at 6:35 PM, Dessie Pierce  wrote:

I was told that they attach to your skin and have to be cut off. Does that have 
any truth?

Dessie 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Logan  wrote:
> 
> You definitely do not want to be bitten by this critter! The pain is 
> excruciating.  A friend of mine was bitten on the foot while working in her 
> garden up near Temple. She put ice on it but her foot kept hurting and 
> swelling, which she documented with photos over the next hour. She finally 
> had to call a neighbor to take her to the hospital.  
> 
> I was digging out a karst feature full of dirt and leaves, foolishly not 
> wearing gloves, when I pulled out one of them fortunately cushioned in a 
> bundle of leaves, so no bite. Use thick gloves! Centipedes go berserk when 
> they are exposed because they have claustrophillia--fear of open spaces--the 
> opposite of claustrophobia.
> 
> Here's one website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scolopendra_heros
> 
> Logan
> 
>> On 1/31/2019 10:15 AM, Fritz Holt wrote:
>> David’s comments raises a question I have. I have been wading Hill Country 
>> rivers (Frio, Nueces and Sabinal)and exploring their rocky cliffs and caves 
>> for 65 years. I have had encounters with rattlers, water snakes, various 
>> lizards and centipedes. I love them all but am especially fascinated with 
>> the large centipedes. The largest ones I have seen were between four and 
>> five inches long. I seem to remember their coloration was black and various 
>> shades of red, yellow and orange. I may have picked up one or two without 
>> gloves but was never bitten or stung. I assume they can inflict pain but 
>> guess I was lucky (as always) and would like some feedback on this. Are they 
>> harmful?
>> Fritz Holt
>> fritz...@gmail.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 1:54 PM, David  wrote:
>> 
>>> People, including cavers, often associate cave animals with bats.
>>> 
>>> I think we often neglect the other critters. For example, name a cave
>>> that is devoted to the preservation of Red-headed Centipede.
>>> 
>>> Or any other cave-dwelling centipede.
>>> 
>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Scolopendra_heros.jpg
>>> 
>>> I saw a 6 inch long centipede in Brehmer Cave near New Braunfels, around
>>> 1996.I remember the color patter was maroon and black, but can't 
>>> remember which color was the
>>> dominating color - Maybe black with some maroon parts ?
>>> 
>>> I can only imagine cavers with lots of experience have seen hundreds of 
>>> these.
>>> 
>>> Of course, you probably would not want to crawl around in a cave with 100's 
>>> of venomous
>>> centipedes.   Would you ?
>>> 
>>> On a related note, I have not seen a horned-toad in the wild in over 30 
>>> years.
>>> 
>>> And on a totally different note,
>>> 
>>> Last night, I was driving around 2 a.m. in the morning from Houston to 
>>> Gatesville ( northwest of Temple )
>>> via the small towns around Milano, and I saw
>>> stars for the first time in almost a year.I did not have time to even 
>>> get out of the car and look at
>>> the stars. There was still too much light on the horizon and from 
>>> traffic to really get a good look at them.
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] critters in caves

[speodesmus]

Well, in millipedes (Class Dipopoda) that's two PAIRS of legs per body ring, 
except the first few at the front have one pair each.  The body rings are two 
fused true segments. 

Centipedes (Class Chilopoda) have one pair of legs per segment. The venomous 
fangs are modified legs folded under the head. The other legs are nonvenomous. 

Both groups have many Orders, Families, genera and species. The two  Classes 
split at least 200 million years ago. Diplopoda or millipedes may have been the 
first animals to colonize land from water. 

Bill E. 

On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Geary Schindel  
wrote:

Bill, for us non-biologists, I learned the difference between the two pedes is 
a centipede has one leg per segment and millipedes may have two or more.
 
Is that correct?
 
Thanks,
 
Geary
 
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of 
speodes...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:43 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] critters in caves
 
Friends, 
 
The large centipedes like you described may be Scolopendra species. They can 
bite and inject venom, and it hurts. They eat cave crickets and other things. 
See James Reddell's biology chapter in Elliott and Veni's "The Caves and Karst 
of Texas" 1994. 
 
Not to be confused with the many small species of millipedes like Speodesmus 
and Cambala in Texas caves. Most are troglobites, and all millipedes are 
harmless. They eat soil, fungi etc. 
 
Thanks,
William R. (Bill) Elliott

On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:29 AM, John Brooks  
wrote:

Interesting post.
 
First - I assume that many people know this - But the TCMA owns several caves / 
preserves that are focused on protecting “cave critters”. Check out the TCMAs 
website for more information.
 
Second - over many years of caving I have many interesting encounters with 
critters in cavesfrom crawling into an obvious rattlesnake den in 
Oklahomato unintentionally peeing on a rattlesnake just outside of another 
Oklahoma caveand leaping down onto a water moccasin at another Oklahoma 
caveand being stung by a scorpion that dropped onto my neck in a TEXAS 
caveand finding a fresh mountain lion kill in a New Mexico cave ( it 
slipped past me and got out of the cave much to the surprise of my companions ).
Anyway, the wildlife in and around caves has always been the more memorable 
part of caving for me - I just wish I could have gotten pictures of some of 
these encounters along the way.
But I have never been stung by a big centipede and no plans to try it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Fritz Holt  wrote:

David’s comments raises a question I have. I have been wading Hill Country 
rivers (Frio, Nueces and Sabinal)and exploring their rocky cliffs and caves for 
65 years. I have had encounters with rattlers, water snakes, various lizards 
and centipedes. I love them all but am especially fascinated with the large 
centipedes. The largest ones I have seen were between four and five inches 
long. I seem to remember their coloration was black and various shades of red, 
yellow and orange. I may have picked up one or two without gloves but was never 
bitten or stung. I assume they can inflict pain but guess I was lucky (as 
always) and would like some feedback on this. Are they harmful?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
 
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2019, at 1:54 PM, David  wrote:

People, including cavers, often associate cave animals with bats.
 
I think we often neglect the other critters. For example, name a cave
that is devoted to the preservation of Red-headed Centipede.
 
Or any other cave-dwelling centipede.
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Scolopendra_heros.jpg
 
I saw a 6 inch long centipede in Brehmer Cave near New Braunfels, around
1996.I remember the color patter was maroon and black, but can't remember 
which color was the
dominating color - Maybe black with some maroon parts ?
 
I can only imagine cavers with lots of experience have seen hundreds of these.
 
Of course, you probably would not want to crawl around in a cave with 100's of 
venomous
centipedes.   Would you ?
 
On a related note, I have not seen a horned-toad in the wild in over 30 years.
 
And on a totally different note,
 
Last night, I was driving around 2 a.m. in the morning from Houston to 
Gatesville ( northwest of Temple )
via the small towns around Milano, and I saw
stars for the first time in almost a year.I did not have time to even get 
out of the car and look at
the stars. There was still too much light on the horizon and from traffic 
to really get a good look at them.
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Re: [Texascavers] critters in caves

[speodesmus]

Friends, 

The large centipedes like you described may be Scolopendra species. They can 
bite and inject venom, and it hurts. They eat cave crickets and other things. 
See James Reddell's biology chapter in Elliott and Veni's "The Caves and Karst 
of Texas" 1994. 

Not to be confused with the many small species of millipedes like Speodesmus 
and Cambala in Texas caves. Most are troglobites, and all millipedes are 
harmless. They eat soil, fungi etc. 

Thanks,
William R. (Bill) Elliott

On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:29 AM, John Brooks  
wrote:

Interesting post.

First - I assume that many people know this - But the TCMA owns several caves / 
preserves that are focused on protecting “cave critters”. Check out the TCMAs 
website for more information.

Second - over many years of caving I have many interesting encounters with 
critters in cavesfrom crawling into an obvious rattlesnake den in 
Oklahomato unintentionally peeing on a rattlesnake just outside of another 
Oklahoma caveand leaping down onto a water moccasin at another Oklahoma 
caveand being stung by a scorpion that dropped onto my neck in a TEXAS 
caveand finding a fresh mountain lion kill in a New Mexico cave ( it 
slipped past me and got out of the cave much to the surprise of my companions ).
Anyway, the wildlife in and around caves has always been the more memorable 
part of caving for me - I just wish I could have gotten pictures of some of 
these encounters along the way.
But I have never been stung by a big centipede and no plans to try it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
> 
> David’s comments raises a question I have. I have been wading Hill Country 
> rivers (Frio, Nueces and Sabinal)and exploring their rocky cliffs and caves 
> for 65 years. I have had encounters with rattlers, water snakes, various 
> lizards and centipedes. I love them all but am especially fascinated with the 
> large centipedes. The largest ones I have seen were between four and five 
> inches long. I seem to remember their coloration was black and various shades 
> of red, yellow and orange. I may have picked up one or two without gloves but 
> was never bitten or stung. I assume they can inflict pain but guess I was 
> lucky (as always) and would like some feedback on this. Are they harmful?
> Fritz Holt
> fritz...@gmail.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 1:54 PM, David  wrote:
>> 
>> People, including cavers, often associate cave animals with bats.
>> 
>> I think we often neglect the other critters. For example, name a cave
>> that is devoted to the preservation of Red-headed Centipede.
>> 
>> Or any other cave-dwelling centipede.
>> 
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Scolopendra_heros.jpg
>> 
>> I saw a 6 inch long centipede in Brehmer Cave near New Braunfels, around
>> 1996.I remember the color patter was maroon and black, but can't 
>> remember which color was the
>> dominating color - Maybe black with some maroon parts ?
>> 
>> I can only imagine cavers with lots of experience have seen hundreds of 
>> these.
>> 
>> Of course, you probably would not want to crawl around in a cave with 100's 
>> of venomous
>> centipedes.   Would you ?
>> 
>> On a related note, I have not seen a horned-toad in the wild in over 30 
>> years.
>> 
>> And on a totally different note,
>> 
>> Last night, I was driving around 2 a.m. in the morning from Houston to 
>> Gatesville ( northwest of Temple )
>> via the small towns around Milano, and I saw
>> stars for the first time in almost a year.I did not have time to even 
>> get out of the car and look at
>> the stars. There was still too much light on the horizon and from 
>> traffic to really get a good look at them.
>> ___
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>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Louise Power

[speodesmus]

Maybe you meant Louise Hose folks. 

Louise Power also is a dear old friend and member of Carta Valley Sucks. So sad 
to hear Louise Power is gone. She did a lot if good work for the land at BLM.  
A great gal. 

Louise Hose is a honored geologist, pilot, and former NCKRI director. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2018, at 11:41 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:

Did Louise Power work on Villa Luz (sulfur cave in Tabasco)? I know Louise Hose 
did...

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

> On 2018-11-22 07:04, PRESTON FORSYTHE wrote:
> Very sorry to read about the passing of Louise Power. She was on the
> NSS BOG and posted many times on CaveTex. She told me once in  her
> earlier years she was a champion bicycle rider. Of course we remember
> her from her work with the sulfur cave in southern Mexico.
> Preston Forsythe, KY
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 11:06:22 AM CST, Charles Goldsmith
>  wrote:
> Louise was very active here on the mailing list and will be missed.
> We are diminished as a group.
> Sadly, I never got to meet her, but felt like I knew her from talking
> via cavetex.
> Jodell's email is below, if anyone wants to get in touch.
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Jodell Miller 
> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 8:12 PM
> Subject: Louise Power
> To: 
> To those who knew Louise Power: my sister, and a caver from The
> University of Texas, Austin, in the early 1960s.
> I relate to you with a sadden heart that she passed away on August
> 28, 2018 in Medford Oregon.  She had been ill with congestive heart
> failure and kidney failure for a long time. Her desire was to be
> cremated and have her ashes scattered in the mountains surrounding
> Medford.  My daughter and I were able to carry out her last wishes.
> She now rests peacefully overlooking the mountains she loved.
> She had retired from BLM in Medford  on her birthday May 30, 2017. She
> still enjoyed reading about Texas and Mexico caving even though she
> had not been able to cave for many years. She frequently added
> comments on threads in the Texas Cavers Newsletters.
> She will be missed by her friends and family
> Jodell Power Miller
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Caver Storytelling Contest

[speodesmus]

Excuse me...that's Bill Elliott, Living Fossil!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEE
SNORTSNIRTSNOORT
COFFCOFFHAKHAKHAK

Thanks,

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2018, at 8:04 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:

Bill Elliot won the laughing contest at Luckenbach.

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM Bill Steele  wrote:
> I just practiced telling my story and timed it: 3:05. First time out and it 
> was rough. I can do it in three minutes. 
> 
> I’m going to emcee the contest. I’ll start off and go first. I won’t compete 
> for the prize.
> 
> Bill Steele
> speleoste...@aol.com
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:36 PM, Allan Cobb  wrote:
>> 
>> I've got my story lined up and can tell it in three minutes.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>>> On 10/11/2018 2:34 PM, Bill Steele wrote:
>>> Face the challenge, Logan. Practice with a stopwatch. Tell a short version 
>>> of your best story. The prize is $30 for a three minute story, or 
>>> six-hundred bucks an hour.
>>> 
>>> Bill Steele 
>>> speleoste...@aol.com
>>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:23 PM, Logan  wrote:
>>> 
 Excellent Idea! We should have been doing that for years. The 3 minute 
 rule is understandable, but there are many memorable stories that won't be 
 told using that time frame. 
 
> On 10/11/2018 10:54 AM, Bill Steele wrote:
> Cavers love telling stories. There are countless good ones. Here’s your 
> chance to have it pay off.
> 
> The DFW Grotto is hosting a Caver Storytelling Contest at TCR. Come with 
> your best one at midnight, Friday, Oct. 19. Three minutes max, with a 
> caver whistle blast to tell you your time is up. Time-left cards held up 
> with 2 minutes to go and at 1. To be video recorded to put on Facebook, 
> if you agree. The storyteller judged best by a panel of judges will win a 
>   free TCR registration, to be refunded to you by the TCR 
> honchos. Location information will be available at the TCR registration 
> booth.
> 
> Bill Steele 
> speleoste...@aol.com
> 
> 
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>>> 
>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[speodesmus]

I will look Bill, but don't remember one exactly like that. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2018, at 8:14 PM, Diana Tomchick  
wrote:

​Pete had been battling cancer for several years. This was announced on 
Facebook earlier today.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2227414880608994&id=10215102495&comment_id=2227641227253026¬if_id=1530734319602113¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic​


Diana 

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)
From: Texascavers  on behalf of William R. 
Elliott 
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 7:09 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland
 
I had a similar reaction, Mark. I have no information yet, as I live in 
Missouri. 

I will miss Peter Strickland very much. I deeply appreciate the photos he 
contributed for AMCS Bulletin 26, recently published. I hope cavers will have a 
look at those, and many other wonderful photos by and of our senior cavers. 

I have some photos of Pete that I will share with y'all in the near future, 
going back to 1971.

In sorrow,

William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell


> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Mark Minton  
> wrote:
> I was astonished and saddened to read the message below. I had heard nothing 
> about Pete's passing. When/how did this happen?
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
> On Wed, 4 Jul, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Underground Texas Grotto 
>  wrote:
>  
> Due to weather, the grotto is no longer officially floating Town Lake.  Feel 
> free to go, and let us know how it was.  Instead we will be holding a toast 
> to our late friend Pete Strickland at the Posse East.
> 
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UT Southwestern 

Medical Center

The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] Brinco Rescue

[speodesmus]

OK. My memory was wrong because I remembered Gill, and I thought his faithful 
truck was there too.  Complete with toilet seat on hood with Hitler mannequin 
and ceiling fan in the camper. 

I do remember a white truck, which I called a Blazer, but it must have been 
Terry Sayther's Suburban. That was the one we transferred Chris to for the ride 
down the mountain. 

Forty years ago...wow!

Thanks guys. 

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On May 27, 2018, at 2:15 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:

It was in fact Sayther's truck.

A full account of the rescue, including a photo of the airplane and truck, is 
available in AMCS Activities Newsletter No. 9, pp. 53-63, 1979. This is 
available as a free download at .

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Fri, 25 May, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Yep, you’re right, Bill, It was Ediger’s truck. I remember that Gill Ediger, 
Terri Treacy, Jerry Atkinson, and I flew down with the truck. 

Bill Steele 

On May 25, 2018, at 5:22 PM, William R.. Elliott  wrote:

> That was actually Gill Ediger's truck from Austin, and I drove down from 
> Harlingen, TX, to help on the rescue. We spent 3 days getting Chris out. He 
> was shot up with Demarol by a young med student/doctor/caver, who did a good 
> job taking care of him. Splinted his leg, but at one point Chris had to get 
> off the backboard and crawl on one side through a tight crawl with his broken 
> leg on the up side. That was tough to even listen to. I spent a day and a 
> half chiseling out a low bedrock crawl that I finally could only get through 
> without my helmet and by exhaling hard and pushing with my toes. We got Chris 
> back through that one too. Then we rigged him up at the pit entrance with a 
> rope-hauling fiberglass duffel bag protector over his head, sort of like a 
> nosecone. Another bad part was rigging his backboard up in the back of a 
> pickup with cut-up inner tubes like big bungees, but it bounced so hard that 
> Pete Strickland and I of us couldn't keep it under control and he moaned and 
> yelled a lot. Then we took him out of that and put him in the back of a 
> Blazer with a nice foam mattress. That went better. They got him to Texas 
> where his broken femur was pinned. I think he was back to caving after a few 
> months. I remember Gill, Pete, several others, but cannot recall all who were 
> there, sorry. What a deal that was. He was lucky to survive. The Mexican Army 
> was there and helped by mostly staying out of it. 
> 
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> 914 Bannister Drive
> Jefferson City, MO 65109
> speodes...@gmail.com
> 
> 573-291-5093 cell
> 
> 
>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Bill Steele  
>> wrote:
>> Tennessee caver Chris Kerr fell in Sistema Purificacion in 1978 and 
>> fractured his femur. Cavers from Austin drove Terry Sayther’s caving truck 
>> up into a military C130 cargo plane and were flown to Victoria, Tamps., 
>> Mexico to rescue him. The spot where he fell is named Kerr Plunk.
>> 
>> Bill Steele 
>> 
>> > On May 25, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Geary Schindel  
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > Join Us for: Femur Fractures: Practical Effective Traction Splinting for 
>> > Technical Rescues without the traditional traction splint.

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