Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
The Las Cruces meeting was much the same as Carol described. It is interesting to me that I don't recall any other issue that has brought the agencies together the way the WNS issue has.Whatever is done in New Mexico regarding cave management in light of possible WNS, they want to have a coordinated plan - and they want the cavers as partners in this plan. I don't know whether that plan will take the form of complete closure, as it did in Region 2, but at least they're listening to us - and they seemed open to all the ideas that were brought up here in LC. I would encourage those that go to the ABQ meeting to bring all your ideas regarding how to meet the challenge of WNS, and keep an open mind. On Jul 27, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Carol Belski wrote: The Carlsbad meeting was well-attended and well-organized, as I am sure the Las Cruces and Albuquerque ones will be. These are information gathering sessions, not decision making ones. Reports of the ideas and general consensus from all 3 meetings will be sent to all attendees. It was emphasized that NO decisions have yet been made in New Mexico regarding how they will proceed. All the Federal Agencies are trying to work together with the caving community. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
Does anybody have the time and location of the Albuquerque meeting? I'd like to attend. Thanks. Dave Decker > From: rckee...@cox.net > To: nmca...@caver.net > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:15:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure > > All, > > If Region 3 approaches cavers about closing NM and AZ caves, I would demand > that the first thing Region 3 considers is enforcement of the closures for: > > Sandia Cave, NM. > Lava River Cave, AZ > Peppersauce Cave, AZ > > Each of these three wild caves receive thousands (in a couple cases "tens of > thousands") of visitors each year. > > This means there will be a financial commitment needed by the USFS ... as I > suspect that placing "cave closed" signage at the Peppersauce parking lot may > not have the desired effect. > > Ray > > > - Original Message - > From: "Steve Peerman" > To: "nmcaver" > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:18 PM > Subject: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure > > > > All, > > Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are > > at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure > > order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order- > > final.pdf > > > > It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that > > cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through > > specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is > > prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right > > behind on this. > > > > Steve Peerman > > > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things > > you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, > > Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. > > Explore. Dream. Discover." > > attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having > > written this. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > NMCAVER mailing list > > nmca...@caver.net > > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net > ___ > NMCAVER mailing list > nmca...@caver.net > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
It would be nice if they moved that bat in Oklahoma to the Europe "detected but not killing" category. I would guess that the decision on issuing permits is left to each local agency that currently issues permits and not made too specific in this document on purpose since not all places are the same. Fort Stanton may be a sticky issue since it IS a significant hibernaculum and a sometimes paid tour "show cave". Jen. > From: gypca...@comcast.net > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:35:28 -0600 > To: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com > CC: nmca...@caver.net > Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure > > Yes - I had not read that document until you mentioned it. I > recommend everyone read it. > > It does contain this statement: The Forest Service will > authorize > some access for administrative purposes (e.g., implementing the > Abandoned Mine Lands program), research, disease surveillance, and > inventory and monitoring. Specifically identified “show caves” may > remain open for educational purposes. All entries will follow the > recommended decontamination protocols. > > It does not clarify just what constitutes "research". If the BLM > does something similar to this, will the activities of the FSCSP come > under the heading of "research"? > > On Jul 27, 2010, at 2:38 PM, John J Corcoran III wrote: > > > I just finished reading almost all the material on the FS site and > > found the > > FAQ document to be the most informative. > > Steve Peerman > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things > you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, > Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. > Explore. Dream. Discover." > attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having > written this. > > > > > ___ > NMCAVER mailing list > nmca...@caver.net > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
Yes - I had not read that document until you mentioned it. I recommend everyone read it. It does contain this statement: The Forest Service will authorize some access for administrative purposes (e.g., implementing the Abandoned Mine Lands program), research, disease surveillance, and inventory and monitoring. Specifically identified “show caves” may remain open for educational purposes. All entries will follow the recommended decontamination protocols. It does not clarify just what constitutes "research". If the BLM does something similar to this, will the activities of the FSCSP come under the heading of "research"? On Jul 27, 2010, at 2:38 PM, John J Corcoran III wrote: I just finished reading almost all the material on the FS site and found the FAQ document to be the most informative. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
All, If Region 3 approaches cavers about closing NM and AZ caves, I would demand that the first thing Region 3 considers is enforcement of the closures for: Sandia Cave, NM. Lava River Cave, AZ Peppersauce Cave, AZ Each of these three wild caves receive thousands (in a couple cases "tens of thousands") of visitors each year. This means there will be a financial commitment needed by the USFS ... as I suspect that placing "cave closed" signage at the Peppersauce parking lot may not have the desired effect. Ray - Original Message - From: "Steve Peerman" To: "nmcaver" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:18 PM Subject: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure > All, > Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are > at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure > order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order- > final.pdf > > It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that > cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through > specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is > prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right > behind on this. > > Steve Peerman > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things > you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, > Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. > Explore. Dream. Discover." > attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having > written this. > > > > > ___ > NMCAVER mailing list > nmca...@caver.net > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
... ain't gonna happen for this kid any time soon. :) From: "Stephen Fleming" Operation Alternative Hobbies is nearing kickoff time. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
The Carlsbad meeting was well-attended and well-organized, as I am sure the Las Cruces and Albuquerque ones will be. These are information gathering sessions, not decision making ones. Reports of the ideas and general consensus from all 3 meetings will be sent to all attendees. It was emphasized that NO decisions have yet been made in New Mexico regarding how they will proceed. All the Federal Agencies are trying to work together with the caving community. On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:49 PM, jen . wrote: bummer. Does anyone have a report from the Carlsbad meeting last night? I plan to go to the ABQ one tomorrow. To: nmca...@caver.net From: gypca...@comcast.net Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:18:36 -0600 Subject: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure All, Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order- final.pdf It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right behind on this. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
On 2010/07/27 13:18, Steve Peerman wrote: All, Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order-final.pdf It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right behind on this. Operation Alternative Hobbies is nearing kickoff time. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
bummer. Does anyone have a report from the Carlsbad meeting last night? I plan to go to the ABQ one tomorrow. > To: nmca...@caver.net > From: gypca...@comcast.net > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:18:36 -0600 > Subject: [NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure > > All, > Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are > at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure > order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order- > final.pdf > > It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that > cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through > specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is > prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right > behind on this. > > Steve Peerman > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things > you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, > Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. > Explore. Dream. Discover." > attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having > written this. > > > > > ___ > NMCAVER mailing list > nmca...@caver.net > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[NMCAVER] Region 2 Cave Closure
All, Region 2 of the USFS has announced their cave closure. Details are at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml The actual closure order is at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/pdf/r2-wns-closure-order- final.pdf It would appear to me that the gist of this "closure" order is that cavers entering caves in District 2 are REQUIRED to go through specific decon procedures. It doesn't say that all entry is prohibited. I'm guessing that Region 3, (NM, AZ) will be right behind on this. Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
