Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
The discussion might be moot with WNS staring us right in our faces. Would be good to see how WNS Vermont conducts convention and what works or not. I believe I saw someones' recent statement in this discussion questioning the efficiency of the decon solution - Lysol and 409 have been tested on WNS and found to be effective. What might be a problem is washing clothes - it's supposed to be really hot (can't remember the temp) and may ruin some fabrics. Best to wash in machine and not use the dryer but instead put out to dry in sunlight. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
I have to agree with those who have suggested that hosting a convention in NM at a time when WNS is decimating bats across the country seems a bit questionable. This in particular because we don't even know if the decontamination procedures being followed by some (not all) cavers makes a bit of difference. Seriously...dousing cave gear in cleaning agents seems like a handy way to feel like you're doing something...but there is no way of measuring efficacy, and not everyone will be as thorough as they should be. If we're talking about a scenario where even one errant spore could destroy a colony, why risk it? In addition: bats aren't the only creatures that inhabit caves, and the times when I've gone caving after treating my gear, reeking of disinfectant, just doesn't seem like low-impact, leave-no-trace caving to me. There are microbes and lots of other little critters that might be seriously affected by all the chemicals we're loading onto our caving gear. What about the rest of the subterranean ecology? My final point is this: anyone who's been to a convention knows the mayhem involved with gear cleaning, drying, borrowing, lending, returning, etc. It's unrealistic to think that ALL the clothing and gear of ALL cavers coming to convention could be adequately inspected and policed for cleanliness. And if it only takes one spore, NM cavers won't know if all their efforts were successful until after convention, when bats start to die. Then it will be too late to put the genie back in the bottle. This entire situation may warrant the NSS re-evaluating how, when, and where it holds conventions for the foreseeable future. Lois Manno ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
The idea of a convention in NM is not necessarily a threat to bats. The best evidence of that is that there was a large NSS Convention in Indiana in 2007, after WNS had appeared in the Northeast but before anyone knew much about it, and before there was any effort to decon gear or limit caving. Lots of cavers from the Northeast came to Indiana, yet WNS has still not appeared there. Cavers may be able to spread WNS, but they are obviously not a very efficient vector. It takes a great many spores to start a viable colony of fungus, not just one. With a gear loan program and decon stations on site, I think the risk is minimal. It'll likely get there on its own beforehand anyway. Mark Minton ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
Mark, I agree with your statement accept for one line; It takes a great many spores to start a viable colony of fungus, not just one. Unlike man's problems with histos spores, the WNS will propagate from just one spore. But your last statement being true would negate any debate. The bats will remain the primary mode of transmission. The problem is very much like humans trying to stop the spread of the cold or flu virus. The bats won't listen to the CDC and don't show their papers when crossing state or national borders!! Bill Ellis - Original Message - From: Mark Minton To: nmca...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention The idea of a convention in NM is not necessarily a threat to bats. The best evidence of that is that there was a large NSS Convention in Indiana in 2007, after WNS had appeared in the Northeast but before anyone knew much about it, and before there was any effort to decon gear or limit caving. Lots of cavers from the Northeast came to Indiana, yet WNS has still not appeared there. Cavers may be able to spread WNS, but they are obviously not a very efficient vector. It takes a great many spores to start a viable colony of fungus, not just one. With a gear loan program and decon stations on site, I think the risk is minimal. It'll likely get there on its own beforehand anyway. Mark Minton ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] WNS and NM Convention
Hello All, Just to set the tone correctly on the subject of NSS Conventions with respect to the WNS. The NSS will continue to have Conventions. The NSS will continue to promote caving trips during the Conventions. The NSS will continue to make the best decisions it can based on the best data available, concerning WNS. This year's Convention will have de-con procedures that are in accordance with the FSFWS protocols. Additionally, cavers in the NE are providing caving gear for cavers coming to Convention. What this means is WNS is NOT AN EXCUSE, and something that can be blamed for not going to the Conventions, or hosting a Convention. Basically, it comes down to this. WNS is in the U.S. to stay. Deconning gear is now part of the caver's leave no trace ethic. So now, what each of us need to be doing, is teaching the next generation that this is part of caving, and conservation, and it is part of what we do to enjoy this sport of discovery and science. And to those on this list who do not know what position I am in ... I am the current Administrative VP of the NSS, and the NSS Conventions are responsibilities of my Convention Division Chief (Carol Tiderman) and the respective Convention chairs. Hopefully this will encourage some of you to attend the Convention in Vermont. The registration fees go up on June 15th. thanks, Ray Keeler Administrative VP, NSS ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
