Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BNSSwest%5D%20BOG%20proposal%20to%20end
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BNSSwest%5D%20BOG%20proposal%20to%20end
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BNSSwest%5D%20BOG%20proposal%20to%20end
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you,
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you,
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Thanks Lee, Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:43 PM To: SWR Mailing List Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsbury mailto:presid...@caves.org presid...@caves.org Reply-To: mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To: mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the ³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of ¹11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership
