Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
; > I appreciate your offer to exit the SWR and start another region, but I > think I'll stick with the SWR as I think that it has a lot of good things > going for it. There are a lot of SWR members engaging in proactive caving > projects and positively contributing to caving and I think that is great. I > also really like the SWR purpose: The specific purpose of the > Southwestern Region shall be a non-profit organization to further the > discovery, exploration, scientific study, and conservation of caves, > especially in New Mexico and the area of Texas west of the southern > projection of the eastern boundary of New Mexico; and to promote safe > techniques of cave exploration. > > I've probably just about run my course on this discussion. It has been > fun. I think that everyone knows what my perspective is on the BLM FOIA and > the lack of a democratic SWR, so I'll sit back for a while and let others > have the virtual floor. > > Happy caving. > > Stan > > > -Original Message- > From: Evatt > To: Stan Allison > Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 7:28 pm > Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake > > > > *From:* Stan Allison > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 04, 2014 5:17 PM > *To:* s...@caver.net > *Subject:* Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake > > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for your response. I would have to disagree with your assessment > that the SWR is far more democratic than the USA or the NSS. I can > participate in USA elections and NSS elections without having to drive > across the state. Yes, the NSS officers are elected by the BOG, but I can > vote for the BOG online once again without having to drive across the > state. If we take the example of what happened at the SWR perhaps a > humorous analogy at the USA level would be if President Obama appointed his > spouse Michelle Obama to be the new liason with Russia and then Michelle > declared war on Russia without consulting Congress or without the > President's explicit approval. I hope everyone can see the humor in this > because I really don't think the BLM is the equivalent of Russia and > Michelle Obama is much better looking than Steve Fleming. I know that jokes > don't transmit well via the Internet, but believe me I'm smiling as I write > this and I hope that all of you will find this mildly entertaining as well. > > *Hi Stan,* > > *Voting for NSS BOG is again, not the same thing as voting for its > officers. Please understand that. And you will be voting for voter > representatives you probably have never seen or met, persons whose tiny > paragraph on the ballot site is the only thing you will ever know about > them. The solution to not knowing them? Go to meetings and meet and talk > with them. If you believe blind voting by electronic ballot is superior to > knowledgeable voting, you might consider electing not to vote.* > > *In any government election, you can get up, put on your shoes and > preferably some clothing and go out and vote, at a public polling precinct > location. Or you can request an absentee ballot, fill it out at home and > pay postage (equivalent to a minor poll tax) to mail it back. But you *cannot > *vote electronically, and you *cannot *vote for the Presidential > candidate.* > > *Stephen Fleming was not placed in the liaison position because he was the > spouse of the Regional Chair. He was allowed the position because, purely > and simply, he is by far the best FOIA writer the region has, or has had in > the last 20+ years. He has proven it time and time again.* > > *Fleming was not appointed to the position by the SWR Chair. He was placed > into the position by *unanimous *consent of the SWR officers, to fulfill > the vote (by *unanimous *consent of the membership who attended the last > SWR meeting) to elicit answers concerning the cave closure act, which had > expired without being renewed in Jan. 2013.* > > I attended the SWR Winter Technical in December 2013 so I assume that you > are including me as one of the 70 who demanded answers from the BLM. While > I would like to have answers from the BLM, that doesn't mean I endorsed a > FOIA. > > *What do you endorse, then? Letters and phone calls to BLM officials have > gone unanswered for over three years. If you have a better idea, I’d like > to hear it. So would the region. * > > I don't recall any mention of a FOIA at the SWR Winter Technical in 2013, > so I don't think it is safe to assume that all 70 attendees were in support > of a FOIA that hadn't even been brought up at the time. If I recall > correctly, the most recent SWR Caver stated there were 147 SWR members as > of the 2013 Winter Technical. Since there isn't any way for the
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hi Jim, Well, you are probably not going to convince me that the SWR is a very democratic or representative organization and I'm probably not going to convince you that it is not. I don't think that I have any more to add to that discussion other than I would be happy to put my money where my mouth/keyboard is and assist the SWR with coming up with a means to institute electronic voting for officers and for special elections in significant matters such as BLM FOIA's if the leadership or membership so desires. I would appreciate it if you would make this known at the upcoming SWR business meeting to see if anyone is interested in my offer. If nothing else, electronic voting could save SWR members such as Peter Jones thousands of dollars on travelling to NM to participate in SWR politics. :) It is interesting that you mention that Steve Fleming was not appointed by the SWR chair but by unanimous consensus of the officers. I just reviewed the SWR constitution and read that the chair can delegate authority and assign committee chairpersons (Article V. Section 2 A). Bylaws Section 5 indicates that the Chair can appoint committees and their chairs. I couldn't find any mention in the SWR constitution that chairs can be appointed by unanimous consent of officers under than the SWR Chair. Since I'm obviously missing something, please let me know under what SWR constitutional authority did the officers appoint a federal liaison position independent of the chair? Unfortunately, I do think that the SWR is now in the same barrel of poop as the CBD. I think that you have created a concise and entertaining way of explaining the situation. Please don't blame me and the many other members who were never consulted on the decision to jump in that barrel. You, your fellow officers and a few outspoken and influential SWR members have yourselves to blame for joining the CBD in that stinky mess. You claim that the CBD operates by threat and open intimidation but that the SWR asks. I think that filing a FOIA comes under the realm of asking at gunpoint or via a lawsuit rather than asking with a smile and open heart. I appreciate your offer to exit the SWR and start another region, but I think I'll stick with the SWR as I think that it has a lot of good things going for it. There are a lot of SWR members engaging in proactive caving projects and positively contributing to caving and I think that is great. I also really like the SWR purpose: The specific purpose of the Southwestern Region shall be a non-profit organization to further the discovery, exploration, scientific study, and conservation of caves, especially in New Mexico and the area of Texas west of the southern projection of the eastern boundary of New Mexico; and to promote safe techniques of cave exploration. I've probably just about run my course on this discussion. It has been fun. I think that everyone knows what my perspective is on the BLM FOIA and the lack of a democratic SWR, so I'll sit back for a while and let others have the virtual floor. Happy caving. Stan -Original Message- From: Evatt To: Stan Allison Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 7:28 pm Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake From: Stan Allison Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 5:17 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Hi Jim, Thanks for your response. I would have to disagree with your assessment that the SWR is far more democratic than the USA or the NSS. I can participate in USA elections and NSS elections without having to drive across the state. Yes, the NSS officers are elected by the BOG, but I can vote for the BOG online once again without having to drive across the state. If we take the example of what happened at the SWR perhaps a humorous analogy at the USA level would be if President Obama appointed his spouse Michelle Obama to be the new liason with Russia and then Michelle declared war on Russia without consulting Congress or without the President's explicit approval. I hope everyone can see the humor in this because I really don't think the BLM is the equivalent of Russia and Michelle Obama is much better looking than Steve Fleming. I know that jokes don't transmit well via the Internet, but believe me I'm smiling as I write this and I hope that all of you will find this mildly entertaining as well. Hi Stan, Voting for NSS BOG is again, not the same thing as voting for its officers. Please understand that. And you will be voting for voter representatives you probably have never seen or met, persons whose tiny paragraph on the ballot site is the only thing you will ever know about them. The solution to not knowing them? Go to meetings and meet and talk with them. If you believe blind voting by electronic ballot is superior to knowledgeable voting, you might consider electing not to vote. In any gove
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hi Jim, Thanks for your response. I would have to disagree with your assessment that the SWR is far more democratic than the USA or the NSS. I can participate in USA elections and NSS elections without having to drive across the state. Yes, the NSS officers are elected by the BOG, but I can vote for the BOG online once again without having to drive across the state. If we take the example of what happened at the SWR perhaps a humorous analogy at the USA level would be if President Obama appointed his spouse Michelle Obama to be the new liason with Russia and then Michelle declared war on Russia without consulting Congress or without the President's explicit approval. I hope everyone can see the humor in this because I really don't think the BLM is the equivalent of Russia and Michelle Obama is much better looking than Steve Fleming. I know that jokes don't transmit well via the Internet, but believe me I'm smiling as I write this and I hope that all of you will find this mildly entertaining as well. I attended the SWR Winter Technical in December 2013 so I assume that you are including me as one of the 70 who demanded answers from the BLM. While I would like to have answers from the BLM, that doesn't mean I endorsed a FOIA. I don't recall any mention of a FOIA at the SWR Winter Technical in 2013, so I don't think it is safe to assume that all 70 attendees were in support of a FOIA that hadn't even been brought up at the time. If I recall correctly, the most recent SWR Caver stated there were 147 SWR members as of the 2013 Winter Technical. Since there isn't any way for the leadership to census all 147 members or have any kind of a vote that involves all members, I don't think that anyone can state what most of the SWR membership wants on any issue since no one actually has taken the measurements necessary to make such a statement. As a reminder to you and Steve Peerman who have both brought up my employment with the federal governenment, I'm involving myself in these discussions as a SWR member on my own time. The BLM FOIA does not involve the agency that employees me. Yes, I work for the federal government as does our current Chair who has worked for the USFS and BLM as well as our last Chair who worked for the USFS and BLM as well as our new Federal Liason who is retired from the BLM and NPS. Quite a few active SWR members are federal employees/retirees or federal contractor employees/retirees. Hopefully I can still be involved in SWR issues as a member on my own time and represent my own personal concerns without having them be marginalized because of my employment. Once again, I hope you have a great time at the Regional and thanks for considering my concerns. Stan -Original Message- From: Evatt To: Stan Allison Cc: Peerman Steve ; Sorensen Peg ; Fleming Steven ; Belski Dave ; Harrington Ken ; Blake Jordan Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 5:55 am Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake From: Stan Allison Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 10:08 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Hi Steve and Evelyn, Thank you for your responses. You are correct that I don't attend SWR regional meetings, partially because I work weekends and partially because I would rather be caving, hiking or backpacking! :) However I think that it is possible that the consensus of the small number of cavers who attend the SWR regionals may differ from the consensus of the approximately 150 members of the SWR. As Evelyn pointed out, the regionals have poor attendance. The small group that attends regionals may or may not represent the make-up of the entirety of the SWR. There are many other SWR cavers like myself who are unable to attend SWR regional meetings, but still might like to participate in major decisions such as the BLM FOIA and the creation of a federal liason. If either of you are interested, perhaps you could bring up the idea at the upcoming regional about having the SWR enter the digital age and have officer elections and other important events done electronically so that all members can participate whether they can attend regionals and winter technicals or not. While only a few people have spoken out on the discussion board against the SWR BLM FOIA, once again, that may not represent the thoughts of the membership as a whole. Many folks don't actively participate in the discussion board and some folks might feel intimidated to speak their minds if they disagree with what may correctly or incorrectly be perceived as a strongly held majority viewpoint. Others may be smarter than myself and just not want to enter the fray! :) The SWR BLM FOIA is out of the bag and while we disagree about whether it will accomplish the goals of the SWR or not, I hope that this issue will prompt the officers of the SWR to create a more democratic and rep
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
To the officers and members of SWR, Thank you Stan and very well said! My feelings exactly and I am in total agreement. For too long the minority have ruled SWR. It is time to grow up and give the majority a voice. I know for a fact that NSS, TSA, TCMA have all gone to electronic ballet in elections with online candidate profiles. Karen Perry From: Stan Allison To: s...@caver.net Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Hi Steve and Evelyn, Thank you for your responses. You are correct that I don't attend SWR regional meetings, partially because I work weekends and partially because I would rather be caving, hiking or backpacking! :) However I think that it is possible that the consensus of the small number of cavers who attend the SWR regionals may differ from the consensus of the approximately 150 members of the SWR. As Evelyn pointed out, the regionals have poor attendance. The small group that attends regionals may or may not represent the make-up of the entirety of the SWR. There are many other SWR cavers like myself who are unable to attend SWR regional meetings, but still might like to participate in major decisions such as the BLM FOIA and the creation of a federal liason. If either of you are interested, perhaps you could bring up the idea at the upcoming regional about having the SWR enter the digital age and have officer elections and other important events done electronically so that all members can participate whether they can attend regionals and winter technicals or not. While only a few people have spoken out on the discussion board against the SWR BLM FOIA, once again, that may not represent the thoughts of the membership as a whole. Many folks don't actively participate in the discussion board and some folks might feel intimidated to speak their minds if they disagree with what may correctly or incorrectly be perceived as a strongly held majority viewpoint. Others may be smarter than myself and just not want to enter the fray! :) The SWR BLM FOIA is out of the bag and while we disagree about whether it will accomplish the goals of the SWR or not, I hope that this issue will prompt the officers of the SWR to create a more democratic and representative organization in the future. I would also hope that in the future, if some particularly significant and controversial action is being debated that the SWR officers will use Article VI Section 2 of the SWR Constitution to declare a special meeting and have that meeting in a digital fashion so that all members can participate whether they can physically make it to the meeting or not. I hope that everyone who attends the Black Range SWR will have a great time and I look forward to seeing Steve on the 17th. Good caving to all. Stan -Original Message- From: Steve Peerman To: Stan Allison Sent: Sat, May 31, 2014 7:35 am Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Stan, You are certainly entitled to your opinion and there are aspects of the way that this has evolved that I wish had happened differently. However, I would like to respond to some of your concerns. On May 30, 2014, at 8:22 PM, Stan Allison wrote: Southwestern Cavers, > > >I am writing to you as a Southwestern Region member and as a caver who leads and participates in exploration, survey and cartography projects as well as scientific projects and recreational caving on BLM managed lands. I want to express my disappointment in both the Southwestern Region officers submitting a FOIA request to the BLM and the manner in which it was submitted without consulting with the SWR membership until after the FOIA had been submitted. At the last regional meeting, on June 12, there was a general consensus of those present that "something should be done" in regards to the BLM's closure of the caves, but the exact nature of what should be done was not clear. Regional Chair Meg Sorensen was directed by the membership to write a letter to BLM asking what the management plan was for the caves that were closed under the Federal Register. However she found herself in a difficult position, as an employee of the USFS, dealing with cave management issues herself. She had a conflict of interest, as you yourself have as well. This letter from her had been requested by the SWR membership as early as September, 2013, but had not been done (and, to my knowledge, has still not been done). In your position at Carlsbad Caverns, I think you may be somewhat shielded from the general feeling of cavers in the region. (How many regional meetings have you attended in the last x years? I know, your work schedule makes it difficult to attend regularly.) For the most part, the active cavers of the region feel that the BLM has overstepped its authority in closing the caves, since the expiration of the Fe
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hope this isn't too disjointed, but trying to type an inline response, to a response, to a response, was getting confusing for me. Though some people actively participate in SWR, most only do once every few years, and some just try to keep up with events by reading emails and newsletters. The lack of a quorum for most SWR issues is necessary to get anything done. As far as caving vs SWR meetings goes, I caved at the last SWR because I am horribly stubborn that we should have caving. It was pooptastic! A trip report is in the latest Southwestern Cavers for your armchair enjoyment. I will be missing this SWR for a previously scheduled cave trip, and expect the same for the next, as of now still unscheduled meeting. The internet is still in it's infancy here. I am laughing heartily and will say that since we can't even put specific meeting locations on the web, there is no way we will get past loud paranoia to put any kind of voting on the web.The was some recent surprise that there were already a bunch of existing unused liaison contacts on the webpage (I'm one!) and there is no decision on what to do about that yet. A liaison is a person who helps organizations or groups to work together and provide information to each other (Mirriam Webster). I guess a FOIA sorta does that. Yes, BLM could communicate better with us. but NM BLM is the only management agency response I have seen to the OK bat across the country. Seriously, our non-responsive agency is the only one to have responded and it was to SWR members directly. There has been a (limited) dialog in the closure issue, we had two meetings more than anywhere else in the country. And with the 20 year ago fee demo debacle added in, yes, SWR has done a good job of being a nest of fire ants to get work done in the end. Whether or not is was a mistake, it is done. And heck, Wikipedia says "Ant bites are often said to have curative properties." Jen ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hi Steve and Evelyn, Thank you for your responses. You are correct that I don't attend SWR regional meetings, partially because I work weekends and partially because I would rather be caving, hiking or backpacking! :) However I think that it is possible that the consensus of the small number of cavers who attend the SWR regionals may differ from the consensus of the approximately 150 members of the SWR. As Evelyn pointed out, the regionals have poor attendance. The small group that attends regionals may or may not represent the make-up of the entirety of the SWR. There are many other SWR cavers like myself who are unable to attend SWR regional meetings, but still might like to participate in major decisions such as the BLM FOIA and the creation of a federal liason. If either of you are interested, perhaps you could bring up the idea at the upcoming regional about having the SWR enter the digital age and have officer elections and other important events done electronically so that all members can participate whether they can attend regionals and winter technicals or not. While only a few people have spoken out on the discussion board against the SWR BLM FOIA, once again, that may not represent the thoughts of the membership as a whole. Many folks don't actively participate in the discussion board and some folks might feel intimidated to speak their minds if they disagree with what may correctly or incorrectly be perceived as a strongly held majority viewpoint. Others may be smarter than myself and just not want to enter the fray! :) The SWR BLM FOIA is out of the bag and while we disagree about whether it will accomplish the goals of the SWR or not, I hope that this issue will prompt the officers of the SWR to create a more democratic and representative organization in the future. I would also hope that in the future, if some particularly significant and controversial action is being debated that the SWR officers will use Article VI Section 2 of the SWR Constitution to declare a special meeting and have that meeting in a digital fashion so that all members can participate whether they can physically make it to the meeting or not. I hope that everyone who attends the Black Range SWR will have a great time and I look forward to seeing Steve on the 17th. Good caving to all. Stan -Original Message- From: Steve Peerman To: Stan Allison Sent: Sat, May 31, 2014 7:35 am Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Stan, You are certainly entitled to your opinion and there are aspects of the way that this has evolved that I wish had happened differently. However, I would like to respond to some of your concerns. On May 30, 2014, at 8:22 PM, Stan Allison wrote: Southwestern Cavers, I am writing to you as a Southwestern Region member and as acaver who leads and participates in exploration, survey and cartographyprojects as well as scientific projects and recreational caving on BLM managedlands. I want to express my disappointment in both the Southwestern Region officerssubmitting a FOIA request to the BLM and the manner in which it was submittedwithout consulting with the SWR membership until after the FOIA had beensubmitted. At the last regional meeting, on June 12, there was a general consensus of those present that "something should be done" in regards to the BLM's closure of the caves, but the exact nature of what should be done was not clear. Regional Chair Meg Sorensen was directed by the membership to write a letter to BLM asking what the management plan was for the caves that were closed under the Federal Register. However she found herself in a difficult position, as an employee of the USFS, dealing with cave management issues herself. She had a conflict of interest, as you yourself have as well. This letter from her had been requested by the SWR membership as early as September, 2013, but had not been done (and, to my knowledge, has still not been done). In your position at Carlsbad Caverns, I think you may be somewhat shielded from the general feeling of cavers in the region. (How many regional meetings have you attended in the last x years? I know, your work schedule makes it difficult to attend regularly.) For the most part, the active cavers of the region feel that the BLM has overstepped its authority in closing the caves, since the expiration of the Federal Register notice. They don't believe there is sufficient reason for closing the caves, and that the closure has been done contrary to the BLM's own policies. However, the expression of these concerns to BLM has fallen on deaf ears, so the FOIA request is an effort to get their attention. I believe that the FOIA request is a bad idea for the followingreasons: I don’t think that this FOIA will result in any change ofmanagement or closures of BLM caves. Reviewing the hundreds to tho
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
I rather agree with Stan's points: * It's not clear the actions will have the desired effect * It seems likely to be regarded as confrontational, regardless of claims of the board to the contrary * By acting without consulting the SWR membership, the board reduces the force of a statement had it been approved by the membership, and opens themselves to the appearance of have acted unilaterally, without concern for the ideas of SWR membership Michael Queen On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Stan Allison wrote: > Southwestern Cavers, > > I am writing to you as a Southwestern Region member and as a caver who > leads and participates in exploration, survey and cartography projects as > well as scientific projects and recreational caving on BLM managed lands. I > want to express my disappointment in both the Southwestern Region officers > submitting a FOIA request to the BLM and the manner in which it was > submitted without consulting with the SWR membership until after the FOIA > had been submitted. > I believe that the FOIA request is a bad idea for the following reasons: > >- I don’t think that this FOIA will result in any change of management >or closures of BLM caves. Reviewing the hundreds to thousands of BLM WNS >related emails and correspondence will probably take tens to hundreds of >hours and will probably not reveal anything that we don’t already know. >Even if we do learn something new, I doubt that it will be substantive >enough to require the BLM to make any significant changes in cave >management policies. >- Submitting a FOIA request to the BLM is the same tactic that the >Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) used with the BLM. I don’t agree with >the CBD’s tactics in dealing with WNS and federal agencies and in >particular don’t want to see the SWR emulating the CBD’s tactics. I have >heard SWR members and officers complain about the CBD tactics in >dealing with WNS and am surprised that we are now following in their >footsteps. >- Responding to this FOIA will take BLM cave managers away from their >duties of managing caves and will mean that our tax dollars spend more time >on responding to a frivolous FOIA request rather than managing caves and >karst. >- The SWR has a long history of cooperating and working with the BLM. >While we certainly don’t always agree with everything that the BLM has >done, I think that this FOIA request will damage the SWR BLM relationship >and cause more harm than good. I don’t believe that the FOIA request will >further the goals of the SWR. > >I am also disappointed with the SWR officers in not consulting with > the membership before creating a new Federal Liaison position and > submitting a FOIA to the BLM. It appears that a false sense of urgency was > created in order to rush the process along without consulting the > membership. I would also hope that a SWR Federal Liaison would work to > maintain and build the SWR/BLM relationship rather than damaging our > relationship. I think that the SWR officers have made a mistake in > creating and filling a Federal liaison position without consulting with the > membership and that submitting a SWR FOIA request to the BLM without > consulting with the membership was also a mistake. I’m hopeful that the > SWR’s past record of excellent cooperation with the BLM in cave > management, science, survey, bat monitoring, exploration, cartography, > education, photography, restoration and recreational caving will help us > maintain a good working relationship with the BLM in the future despite > this recent blunder. > > Thank you for considering my concerns and good caving to all of you. > > Stan Allison > > ___ > SWR mailing list > s...@caver.net > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > ___ > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Southwestern Cavers, I am writing to you as a Southwestern Region member and as acaver who leads and participates in exploration, survey and cartographyprojects as well as scientific projects and recreational caving on BLM managedlands. I want to express my disappointment in both the Southwestern Region officerssubmitting a FOIA request to the BLM and the manner in which it was submittedwithout consulting with the SWR membership until after the FOIA had beensubmitted. I believe that the FOIA request is a bad idea for the followingreasons: I don’t think that this FOIA will result in any change ofmanagement or closures of BLM caves. Reviewing the hundreds to thousands of BLMWNS related emails and correspondence will probably take tens to hundreds ofhours and will probably not reveal anything that we don’t already know. Even ifwe do learn something new, I doubt that it will be substantive enough torequire the BLM to make any significant changes in cave management policies. Submitting a FOIA request to the BLM is the same tactic thatthe Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) used with the BLM. I don’t agree withthe CBD’s tactics in dealing with WNS and federal agencies and in particulardon’t want to see the SWR emulating the CBD’s tactics. I have heard SWR members and officers complain about the CBD tactics indealing with WNS and am surprised that we are now following in their footsteps. Responding to this FOIA will take BLM cave managers awayfrom their duties of managing caves and will mean that our tax dollars spendmore time on responding to a frivolous FOIA request rather than managing cavesand karst. The SWR has a long history of cooperating and working withthe BLM. While we certainly don’t always agree with everything that the BLM hasdone, I think that this FOIA request will damage the SWR BLM relationship andcause more harm than good. I don’t believe that the FOIA request will furtherthe goals of the SWR. I am also disappointed with the SWR officers in notconsulting with the membership before creating a new Federal Liaison positionand submitting a FOIA to the BLM. It appears that a false sense of urgency wascreated in order to rush the process along without consulting the membership. Iwould also hope that a SWR Federal Liaison would work to maintain and build theSWR/BLM relationship rather than damaging our relationship. I think that the SWR officers have made a mistake increating and filling a Federal liaison position without consulting with themembership and that submitting a SWR FOIA request to the BLM without consultingwith the membership was also a mistake. I’m hopeful that the SWR’s past recordof excellent cooperation with the BLM in cave management, science, survey, batmonitoring, exploration, cartography, education, photography, restoration andrecreational caving will help us maintain a good working relationship with theBLM in the future despite this recent blunder. Thank you for considering my concerns and good caving to allof you. Stan Allison ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
