Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
Atlas des Cavites non Calcaires du Monde (Claude Chabert and Paul Courbon, 1997) lists one Nigerian cave in granite, one in lava, and six in sandstone (Speleobooks provided my copy). Five of the sandstone caves are listed from the southern state of Anambra and the sixth in Imo, in the SE part of the country. These six caves are reported to be 25-350 m in length. The granite cave, Birnin Kudu, according to my attempt at French translation, is a rock shelter between blocks of granite. The NSS News, 1977, 35 (3), contains an illustration of this 17 m cave. It is listed from the state of Kano in northern Nigeria. When you have one such "cave" in granite or gneiss, you can have many; at least, that's the case in Norway, North Carolina, and Minnesota. Kassa Cave, 45 m in lava, is near Bununu Kassa in NE Nigeria in Bauchi state. The granite and lava cave locales are right on the edge of the Sahel in the north of Nigeria, so either cave type could be used by bandits. Ann04 has a pic of a bat-inhabited cave in the northern Bauchi state, panoramio.com/photo/2438975, and it sure looks like a natural cave but I cannot tell what kind of rock it is in. Thomas Tvergaard has a shot of the hot spring baths at Wikki Warm Spring, panoramio.com/photo/1090901, in Yankari Nat Pk that contains several other hot springs within a sedimentary geological setting (sandstones, siltstones...). The Yorro Cave in NE Nigeria (access forbidden to outsiders) is evidently one of several in the locale, but I know not its geology. So, it looks like Nigeria has natural caves formed in several rock types, including at least two in the north. Furthermore, any mention of one or a few granitic/gneiss or lava caves and rock shelters implies that there might be many more. On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Gill Edigar wrote: > Purely speculative but there are thousands of domiciles mined (dug) out of > mostly soft sandstone cliffs and spires all over northern Africa. Some are > underground and some are extensive. The people that live in them were > called Troglodytes long before cavers appeared on the scene. I suspect one > must be careful when using the word 'cave' in the vernacular. I think most > folks in the world would not make a clear distinction between a dug cave > and a natural one. > --Ediger > > > On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Mark Minton wrote: > >> Actually, that cave is in Anambra state, which is where the >> sandstone caves are located. The description in "The Underground Atlas" >> even mentioned large chambers, lakes and running water. Sounds like they >> did commercialize one of those sandstone caves. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 02:40 PM 5/13/2014, William Tucker wrote: >> >>> If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical >>> sampling, for whatever it is worth (not much): >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves_of_Nigeria >>> >>> The only cave listed is a show cave in the southeast. As typical of cave >>> articles outside of the west, little or no mention of the geology or >>> speleology, just cultural and religious significance. No mention if this >>> one is even limestone; though, I suspect it probably is. >>> >>> William >>> >>> -Original Message- From: George Veni >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:05 PM >>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria >>> >>> NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World >>> Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in >>> Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly >>> sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone >>> mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, >>> although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more >>> information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be >>> finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't >>> in the current draft. >>> >>> In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone >>> shelters or maybe mines. >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> George Veni, Ph.D. >>> Executive Director >>> National Cave and Karst Research Institute >>> 400-1 Cascades Avenue >>> Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA >>> Office: 575-887-5517 >>> Mobile: 210-863-5919 >>> Fax: 575-887-5523 >>> gv...@nckri.org >>> www.nckri.org >>> >>&
Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
Purely speculative but there are thousands of domiciles mined (dug) out of mostly soft sandstone cliffs and spires all over northern Africa. Some are underground and some are extensive. The people that live in them were called Troglodytes long before cavers appeared on the scene. I suspect one must be careful when using the word 'cave' in the vernacular. I think most folks in the world would not make a clear distinction between a dug cave and a natural one. --Ediger On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Mark Minton wrote: > Actually, that cave is in Anambra state, which is where the > sandstone caves are located. The description in "The Underground Atlas" > even mentioned large chambers, lakes and running water. Sounds like they > did commercialize one of those sandstone caves. > > Mark > > > At 02:40 PM 5/13/2014, William Tucker wrote: > >> If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical >> sampling, for whatever it is worth (not much): >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves_of_Nigeria >> >> The only cave listed is a show cave in the southeast. As typical of cave >> articles outside of the west, little or no mention of the geology or >> speleology, just cultural and religious significance. No mention if this >> one is even limestone; though, I suspect it probably is. >> >> William >> >> -Original Message- From: George Veni >> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:05 PM >> To: texascavers@texascavers.com >> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria >> >> NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World >> Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in >> Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly >> sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone >> mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, >> although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more >> information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be >> finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't >> in the current draft. >> >> In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone >> shelters or maybe mines. >> >> George >> >> >> George Veni, Ph.D. >> Executive Director >> National Cave and Karst Research Institute >> 400-1 Cascades Avenue >> Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA >> Office: 575-887-5517 >> Mobile: 210-863-5919 >> Fax: 575-887-5523 >> gv...@nckri.org >> www.nckri.org >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM >> To: texascavers@texascavers.com >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria >> >> I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The >> Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone >> and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some >> extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they >> were being considered for tourist development. >> However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls >> are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports >> like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. >> >> Mark >> >> At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: >> >>> Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the >>> kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in >>> "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any >>> Nigeria cave experts out there? >>> >> >> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net >> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org >> > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
Actually, that cave is in Anambra state, which is where the sandstone caves are located. The description in "The Underground Atlas" even mentioned large chambers, lakes and running water. Sounds like they did commercialize one of those sandstone caves. Mark At 02:40 PM 5/13/2014, William Tucker wrote: If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical sampling, for whatever it is worth (not much): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves_of_Nigeria The only cave listed is a show cave in the southeast. As typical of cave articles outside of the west, little or no mention of the geology or speleology, just cultural and religious significance. No mention if this one is even limestone; though, I suspect it probably is. William -Original Message- From: George Veni Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:05 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't in the current draft. In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone shelters or maybe mines. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. Mark At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts out there? Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical sampling, for whatever it is worth (not much): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves_of_Nigeria The only cave listed is a show cave in the southeast. As typical of cave articles outside of the west, little or no mention of the geology or speleology, just cultural and religious significance. No mention if this one is even limestone; though, I suspect it probably is. William -Original Message- From: George Veni Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:05 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't in the current draft. In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone shelters or maybe mines. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. Mark At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts out there? Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't in the current draft. In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone shelters or maybe mines. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. Mark At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: >Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the >kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in >"endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any >Nigeria cave experts out there? Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. Mark At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts out there? Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts out there? Preston in KY - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
