[Texascavers] historic posting
I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history list? ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. Jerry. jerryat...@aol.com Sent from my iPad > On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers > wrote: > > I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an > appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history > list? > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey page. You can even start your own photo album there. Jim Kennedy TSS office manager Mobile email from my iPhone > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers > wrote: > > Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. > > Jerry. > jerryat...@aol.com > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >> I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an >> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history >> list? >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and I was accused of copyright violations. All that over a handful of cave maps lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state. It has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, photos and articles. I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this nonsense are still (barely) around. (rant over) > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers > wrote: > > If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey > page. You can even start your own photo album there. > > Jim Kennedy > TSS office manager > > Mobile email from my iPhone > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. >> >> Jerry. >> jerryat...@aol.com >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an >>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving >>> history list? >>> ___ >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
Surely the most appropriate place would be the "Texas Caver", they're always wanting stuff... -Stefan -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jerryatkin via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:13 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. Jerry. jerryat...@aol.com Sent from my iPad > On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers > wrote: > > I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an > appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history > list? -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
Granted I am not caving any more but this overly secret concept of hiding cave locations in the caver community has never made sense to me. I think you should share your files. They are a part of caver history and need to become a part of the record for future generations. Too much has already been lost due to out dated, needless, paranoid mindsets. Just my 2 cents,Karen Perry From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and I was accused of copyright violations. All that over a handful of cave maps lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state. It has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, photos and articles. I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this nonsense are still (barely) around. (rant over) > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers > wrote: > > If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey > page. You can even start your own photo album there. > > Jim Kennedy > TSS office manager > > Mobile email from my iPhone > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. >> >> Jerry. >> jerryat...@aol.com >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an >>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving >>> history list? >>> ___ >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
I believe the root of this behavior is to ultimately protect the rights of the private landowners, which typically do not wish to have the locations of caves on their property become public knowledge. Say what you will about other reasons that you think/believe/know are the causes of the secrecy, there is still a problem with releasing cave locations to the general public. I do not wish to get into an argument about whether “fellow cavers” constitutes the general public, so please don’t flame me about that... Diana ** Diana R. Tomchick Professor Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214A Dallas, TX 75390-8816 diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu (214) 645-6383 (phone) (214) 645-6353 (fax) > On Oct 14, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Karen Perry via Texascavers > wrote: > > Granted I am not caving any more but this overly secret concept of hiding > cave locations in the caver community has never made sense to me. I think you > should share your files. They are a part of caver history and need to become > a part of the record for future generations. Too much has already been lost > due to out dated, needless, paranoid mindsets. > Just my 2 cents, > Karen Perry > > From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting > > Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and > sold them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). > For this I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving > caver, and I was accused of copyright violations. All that over a handful of > cave maps lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers > in the dark about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in > this state. It has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my > cave files (even to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave > locations, maps, photos and articles. > > I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but > I am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this > nonsense are still (barely) around. > > (rant over) > > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers > > wrote: > > > > If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological > > Survey page. You can even start your own photo album there. > > > > Jim Kennedy > > TSS office manager > > > > Mobile email from my iPhone > > > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers > >> wrote: > >> > >> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. > >> > >> Jerry. > >> jerryat...@aol.com > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an > >>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving > >>> history list? > >>> ___ > >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > >> ___ > >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > ___ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
I did state caver meaning within the cave community and not general public. As we all know TSS files are open with proper paper work and request. Landowner rights should be protected yes. But so should caver rights. This has always been a touchy subject and most likely will be for years to come. There are many valid arguments on both sides of the coin. I just don't wish to see valuable records being lost to future generations of dedicated cavers, which I fear might happen if we are not careful in preserving these documents now.Karen ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
Gregg, Regardless of posting, the Texas Speleological Survey would appreciate your gifting any and all historic materials to us. And that goes for every caver out there who has cave memorabilia suitable for our museum or records for our permanent files. Please go online to find contact information. http://www.texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/ Ron Ralph, President -Original Message- From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:03 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] historic posting I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history list? ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
I do not (and have not) released locations. Just maps, descriptions, articles and photos. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
That publication was the first book in my caving library. It was a huge help to my and other young cavers' early caving at the time when help was not forthcoming from some of the cavers who complained about it. I still own two copies. Many things have changed since then. TSS is a great place to put this information. George Sent from my phone. George Veni, PhD Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org Original message From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers Date: 2015/10/14 08:28 (GMT-07:00) To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and I was accused of copyright violations. All that over a handful of cave maps lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state. It has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, photos and articles. I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this nonsense are still (barely) around. (rant over) > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers > wrote: > > If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey > page. You can even start your own photo album there. > > Jim Kennedy > TSS office manager > > Mobile email from my iPhone > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have. >> >> Jerry. >> jerryat...@aol.com >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc. Is this list an >>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving >>> history list? >>> ___ >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers