Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
You don't have to leave your camera at home. Just use a little common sense and have a little RESPECT folks. Give it a try, at least! This is a simple policy with a lot of avenues of interpretation for a reason. Nudity, partial nudity, inebriation, all of these things are more fun without a lot of incriminating photos the next week. If you don't like this policy, then I challenge you to spend all day saturday wearing nothing but paint, a thong, and a sign around your neck that says please take my picture. ...Actually, I think that could be a lot of fun ;) ...but I don't think I'd want to see those photos in the Texas Caver... ~Saj On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with *The TEXAS CAVER.* ** I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. -- *From:* Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] *Sent:* Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM *To:* 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch *From:* Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
It does seem to me that this is an issue of common sense and personal responsibility, but a good one to bring up, since a lot of people seem to be oblivious to it. On the photography front, people need to be conscientious of how they distribute the photos they take at TCR. Many people behave in ways at TCR that they would not dare even dream of in their normal lives. Please respect their separation of caver lifestyle from everything else by not allowing TCR photos to be viewed by the non-caver world. The internet totally counts as the non-caver world. On the naked people front, if you're at TCR naked, lots of people are going to see you, including people you don't know. If it would compromise your financial and/or social well-being to be documented being naked, please be very careful of where you are seen naked. While I would like to believe that no caver would maliciously use compromising photos to hurt another caver, unintended and naive use of those photos can and will happen. Please exercise some personal responsibility for your happiness, and don't put yourself in the position to be hurt by some talented photographer's slide show of your gorgeous and very naked self on the TCR float flaunting it for everyone to see. I think if everyone just keeps the above ideas in mind, there will be no need for overarching policies on no photo zones and the potential litigious action following the inevitable disregard of those polices. Just my two cents. Sandi On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, freddie poer freddiepoe...@yahoo.comwrote: Or anyone who may be worried about being overexposed could simply wear a mask ala Mardi Gras. --- On *Fri, 10/8/10, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net* wrote: From: Gill Edigar gi...@att.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 11:10 PM On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.orghttp://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: Is this an official policy or? The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.: after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there. To the best of my memory there has never been an official policy on anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted either. Then, don't post anybody else's would be the guideline on this one. Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet, can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids and yourself loose for the weekend. Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on the matter. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comhttp://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.comhttp://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
It's great that TCR has a photo policy... While it does seem to be common sense, I doubt it will work. I recommend this real-world photo policy for those who are really concerned: *If you do something in public that you don't want publicized - then don't do it.* Plain and simple - you'll never have to worry about something that never happened coming to light. Simon PS - If you run for government, we'll dig up a video of you from TCR claiming you practiced witchcraft.
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Or anyone who may be worried about being overexposed could simply wear a mask ala Mardi Gras. --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: From: Gill Edigar gi...@att.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 11:10 PM On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: Is this an official policy or? The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.: after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there. To the best of my memory there has never been an official policy on anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted either. Then, don't post anybody else's would be the guideline on this one. Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet, can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids and yourself loose for the weekend. Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on the matter. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce
We've consistently had people crowding in with cameras during the ramen noodle wrestling (later mud wrestling). I've taken the occassional picture, although mine never go online. Nontheless, I'm happy to trade asking people permission to photograph them for everybody feeling more comfortable about how they want to express themselves. I think that we, as a community, need to decide to enforce this policy. If everyone keeps a weather eye out, and politely asks camera barers to put the cell phones or cameras away (and potentially flags folks who refuse to comply), we'll actually have a better experience. ~~Thomas --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 3:11 PM You know, I hate to have to say it, but if you're concerned about the people at work or in your family or wherever seeing you naked in a photo (or doing whatever crazy thing), then don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an embarrassing photo of you. When 350+ people attend an event, there's no way you can really consider that to be a private gathering--and it has always been this way, even before the advent of social networking sites and the Internet. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce
I remember a guy with a video camera at the hot tub who was finally asked to leave because he kept taking pictures. It was a long time ago, and I felt slightly offended, but had no fears that the video would show up some place to embarrass me in my workplace. That was the community Thomas is talking about asking the guy to leave when he would not respect requests to stop. We have a lot of cavers from a lot of fields of work with differing standards and differing ideas of “reasonable” behavior. With publicizing photos being so easy now, I think it is a good time to bring this to wider awareness and decide this is a reasonable policy. Cavers do form a community, and we need to protect the interests of those who would feel (and be) vulnerable without this protection. Linda From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 4:01 PM To: Cave Tex Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce We've consistently had people crowding in with cameras during the ramen noodle wrestling (later mud wrestling). I've taken the occassional picture, although mine never go online. Nontheless, I'm happy to trade asking people permission to photograph them for everybody feeling more comfortable about how they want to express themselves. I think that we, as a community, need to decide to enforce this policy. If everyone keeps a weather eye out, and politely asks camera barers to put the cell phones or cameras away (and potentially flags folks who refuse to comply), we'll actually have a better experience. ~~Thomas --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 3:11 PM You know, I hate to have to say it, but if you're concerned about the people at work or in your family or wherever seeing you naked in a photo (or doing whatever crazy thing), then don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an embarrassing photo of you. When 350+ people attend an event, there's no way you can really consider that to be a private gathering--and it has always been this way, even before the advent of social networking sites and the Internet. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bfra...@maverickgrotto.org ] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sajar...@gmail.com ] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com http://us.mc364.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce
All of us have political futures to think about. We can all exercise our better judgment about posting pictures to the Internet. Let's come to an agreement. TJ A.S.S. 09' Sent from TJ's iPhone On Oct 8, 2010, at 4:30 PM, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I remember a guy with a video camera at the hot tub who was finally asked to leave because he kept taking pictures. It was a long time ago, and I felt slightly offended, but had no fears that the video would show up some place to embarrass me in my workplace. That was the community Thomas is talking about asking the guy to leave when he would not respect requests to stop. We have a lot of cavers from a lot of fields of work with differing standards and differing ideas of “reasonable” behavior. With publicizing photos being so easy now, I think it is a good time to bring this to wider awareness and decide this is a reasonable policy. Cavers do form a community, and we need to protect the interests of those who would feel (and be) vulnerable without this protection. Linda From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 4:01 PM To: Cave Tex Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce We've consistently had people crowding in with cameras during the ramen noodle wrestling (later mud wrestling). I've taken the occassional picture, although mine never go online. Nontheless, I'm happy to trade asking people permission to photograph them for everybody feeling more comfortable about how they want to express themselves. I think that we, as a community, need to decide to enforce this policy. If everyone keeps a weather eye out, and politely asks camera barers to put the cell phones or cameras away (and potentially flags folks who refuse to comply), we'll actually have a better experience. ~~Thomas --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 3:11 PM You know, I hate to have to say it, but if you're concerned about the people at work or in your family or wherever seeing you naked in a photo (or doing whatever crazy thing), then don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an embarrassing photo of you. When 350+ people attend an event, there's no way you can really consider that to be a private gathering--and it has always been this way, even before the advent of social networking sites and the Internet. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new
RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Is this an official policy or? Wouldn't it be easier to just say don't take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
You also can't know what would embarrass a given person (especially us caver types). Don's iPhone. On Oct 8, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Butch et. al, I do not think the concern expressed has anything to do with our website which has always taken great care with photos. I think the concern is with pictures on social networking sites. For some reason people continue to think of facebook, myspace, etc. as being more private than they are. I did read recently that facebook is working on some sort of a private group feature which may help some. Jacqui - Original Message - From: Butch Fralia To: 'Saj Zappitello' ; Texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:01 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn't it be easier to just say don't take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn't it be easier to just say don't take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
You know, I hate to have to say it, but if you're concerned about the people at work or in your family or wherever seeing you naked in a photo (or doing whatever crazy thing), then don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an embarrassing photo of you. When 350+ people attend an event, there's no way you can really consider that to be a private gathering--and it has always been this way, even before the advent of social networking sites and the Internet. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: Is this an official policy or? The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.: after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there. To the best of my memory there has never been an official policy on anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted either. Then, don't post anybody else's would be the guideline on this one. Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet, can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids and yourself loose for the weekend. Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on the matter. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Where is the like button? Sent with my thumbs. On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:10 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: Is this an official policy or? The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.: after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there. To the best of my memory there has never been an official policy on anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted either. Then, don't post anybody else's would be the guideline on this one. Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet, can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids and yourself loose for the weekend. Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on the matter. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj
