Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Terry Holsinger]

Many like to place the blame for the "decrease" in CAFE on the new big 
SUV's, however one other reason is that as we increase the regulations 
on emissions we decrease the efficiency of the engines. Compare the same 
engine in the same makes fuel econemy for a late 80's and a late 90's 
car and you will note that the emmissions are down, as is the power and 
mpg. Fuel efficent gasoline IC engines need to run at high compressions 
which increases the "bad" combustion byproducts. Fuel "efficiency" has 
made a good increase in the older large v8's look at the mpg of full 
sized  trucks and "muscle" cars they have had a steady increase from a 
"standard" of around 12 to upwards of 20 mpg on the hwy. At the same 
time cars that used to get about to 40mpg are now only getting about 
30mpg, or have been discontinued because of poor sales or the inability 
to make current emissions standards (or current "safety" standards).


Terry H.

Don Cooper wrote:

Sorry for name calling, but...
Big time consumption has been egging on the "S & D" equation for a long time
now.
The fact that the most recent hyper-spike in price has only curbed
consumption marginally just goes to show how lucky we've been so far
(In other words, I feel like its fortunate that it hasnt been like this for
years instead of months)
I too remember what it was like when SUPPLY was down - based on the Arab oil
Embargo -
odd thing back then I seem to recall very little price gouging - but the
worldwide price of crude didn't go over $20 even when there was a shortage
of it.  But yeah - that was a much "larger dollar".
What we are experiencing now are the first bands of thunderstorms generated
by a MF of a hurricane.  The fact that fuel consumption efficiency has
steadily DECREASED since 1987 with our testosterone-driven 'gotta have more
power and size' consumerism has advanced our progress toward the brink.
Consumerism isn't the reason the brink exists.  Escalades and Hummers aren't
the reason we're running out of petroleum resources, they are why we are
running out sooner than we should have.
-WaV


On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fritz Holt 
wrote:


 Wavy,

I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford *Exploder*that 
only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the
problem is S & D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and
gasoline, the supply can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with
Philip in that I am just glad that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or
75 when it was so scarce that I had to know a local official in Hondo to be
able to buy gas there for a caving trip further west.  I don't have the
solution but I still believe that it is in the best interest of all US
citizens that congress open all accessible areas to environmentally safe
drilling.

Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.

Fritz


 --

*From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM
*To:* Philip L Moss
*Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com
*Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices



No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05
a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health
benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide,
on assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs
everyday everywhere for anything.
-WaV

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss 
wrote:

Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal.
also?  Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the
mid-1970s.



BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.
Inflation calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008
dollars.  1906 was the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US
and it the trip cost about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance,
and a mechanic's salary for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's
Drive" about the trip.  Energy prices have been high before, just not much
in living memory.



BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe
that the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced
from public lands.



Philip L. Moss
philipm...@juno.com



Louise Power  writes:

 >snip<

Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal.
Gimme back those days!!!




Paralegal Scholarship - Click 
Now!








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Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...

RE: [ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

I disagree, Fritz.

 

I totally blame you for everything.  8^)>

 

 

Later,

 

(a punchy) Mark A.

 

 



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:01 AM
To: Don Cooper
Cc: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

 

Wavy,

My skin is thick but I didn't take it personally anyway. None of us feel
that we are the culprit.

Fritz