Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
Karen: I'm surprised no one else has offered an explanation as of yet. My guess, in part because I am potter, is that it has to do with the crystalline structure of the stones. The reason I mention pottery is because many of my pots, when they come out of the very high temperature firing in my propane fired kiln (roughly 2350 F or cone 10 as the pyrometric cone number is called), have a wonderful and sustained ring to them when I rap my fingers on the rim of some pieces. Some can sustain that ring for half a minute or so. During the firing when the clay body is vitrifying and melting the various ingredients together into one another, a crystalline structure develops. Clay is basically composed of silica, alumina and various oxides such as potassium, sodium, lithium, calcium and a small handful of others that lower the melting temperature of the silica and alumina components. When they interact at the high temperature I fire to, that crystalline structure bonds all the ingredients into a very tight, hard material, extremely resistant to chemical attack. In general, the higher the firing temperature, the longer the ringing sound will last. As such, stoneware and porcelain pottery tends to have the better and longer lasting ringing sound than lower fired clay bodies such as earthenware. Obviously not all stones (and I am assuming you are including stalactites and various other calcite formations in this category) are formed by heat reaction. Plenty of them, such as calcite formations, occur through crystalline growth without the application of heat. While those produced at higher temperatures may be stronger on a molecular level, that doesn't mean that they won't produce a ringing sound as a result of that crystalline growth. Plenty of stals have a long and sustained ring to them. There is also another factor involved in a prolonged ringing sound. In the case of my pots, the most pronounced ringing comes from bowl shapes. A platter may ring as well, but the longest and purest ringing tones come from bowl shapes. Mugs don't ring at all, nor do plates, but the molecular structure of the clay is essentially identical in all of them. The same could be said for stalactites. Short, stubby stals don't do much more than just clunk when they are rapped by a finger. Longer stals have a much greater resonance and it is likely due to the longer length vs girth of the formation. Soda straws don't ring, but a long stalactite certainly is much more likely to sustain a ring than virtually any other formation. This is certainly a very simplified version of why things ring and I hope that other more knowledgable people will respond as well. This is based mostly on empirical evidence from my own experience as a potter and a caver. Perhaps someone from Luray Caverns should answer this question as they are the ones with the stalacpipe organ which uses a keyboard driven hammer device attached to various tuned stalactites throughout the cave. It's pretty impressive Peter Jones On May 25, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Karen Perry wrote: Does anyone know why some stones ring or have a musical quality? Thanks, Karen ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
Damn, Pete, you just gave away the great secret of the aliens. How could you?!?!?!? Peter On May 26, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Pete Lindsley wrote: Ken, have you considered that these magical stones could have come down from the Roswell site? - Pete ;-) On May 26, 2014, at 8:10 AM, Ken Harrington wrote: Peter, Interesting! There is a pile of stones up in the area of Brantley Lake that have a distinctive metallic ring to them when struck by something. They are all rather small (less than 12) long and are not like anything else in the area. I have been curious for some time as to what gave them the metallic tone quality. Your reference to high heat makes me think they may have been brought in from another area where there may have been some volcanic activity. And then again it may be that they are just rocks and this e-mail will confirm for all that I have rocks in my head. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: pjca...@gwi.net Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 20:36:34 -0400 To: txcavem...@yahoo.com CC: s...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [SWR] Ringing stones Karen: I'm surprised no one else has offered an explanation as of yet. My guess, in part because I am potter, is that it has to do with the crystalline structure of the stones. The reason I mention pottery is because many of my pots, when they come out of the very high temperature firing in my propane fired kiln (roughly 2350 F or cone 10 as the pyrometric cone number is called), have a wonderful and sustained ring to them when I rap my fingers on the rim of some pieces. Some can sustain that ring for half a minute or so. During the firing when the clay body is vitrifying and melting the various ingredients together into one another, a crystalline structure develops. Clay is basically composed of silica, alumina and various oxides such as potassium, sodium, lithium, calcium and a small handful of others that lower the melting temperature of the silica and alumina components. When they interact at the high temperature I fire to, that crystalline structure bonds all the ingredients into a very tight, hard material, extremely resistant to chemical attack. In general, the higher the firing temperature, the longer the ringing sound will last. As such, stoneware and porcelain pottery tends to have the better and longer lasting ringing sound than lower fired clay bodies such as earthenware. Obviously not all stones (and I am assuming you are including stalactites and various other calcite formations in this category) are formed by heat reaction. Plenty of them, such as calcite formations, occur through crystalline growth without the application of heat. While those produced at higher temperatures may be stronger on a molecular level, that doesn't mean that they won't produce a ringing sound as a result of that crystalline growth. Plenty of stals have a long and sustained ring to them. There is also another factor involved in a prolonged ringing sound. In the case of my pots, the most pronounced ringing comes from bowl shapes. A platter may ring as well, but the longest and purest ringing tones come from bowl shapes. Mugs don't ring at all, nor do plates, but the molecular structure of the clay is essentially identical in all of them. The same could be said for stalactites. Short, stubby stals don't do much more than just clunk when they are rapped by a finger. Longer stals have a much greater resonance and it is likely due to the longer length vs girth of the formation. Soda straws don't ring, but a long stalactite certainly is much more likely to sustain a ring than virtually any other formation. This is certainly a very simplified version of why things ring and I hope that other more knowledgable people will respond as well. This is based mostly on empirical evidence from my own experience as a potter and a caver. Perhaps someone from Luray Caverns should answer this question as they are the ones with the stalacpipe organ which uses a keyboard driven hammer device attached to various tuned stalactites throughout the cave. It's pretty impressive Peter Jones SITDCP Card 2010.tif On May 25, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Karen Perry wrote: Does anyone know why some stones ring or have a musical quality? Thanks, Karen ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
Pete, So the purpose of the 1947 crash was to put weird rocks in the Carlsbad area to screw with my mind some 67 years later. Those darn aliens are sure sneaky and obviously have a difference concept of time than we do. I wonder how they knew I would be looking at those rocks so far in the future? Wonder if the alien came from the rings of Saturn and that would explain the ringing. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. Subject: Re: [SWR] Ringing stones From: pjca...@gwi.net Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 13:22:02 -0400 CC: ken_harring...@hotmail.com; txcavem...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com To: caverp...@gmail.com Damn, Pete, you just gave away the great secret of the aliens. How could you?!?!?!? Peter On May 26, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Pete Lindsley wrote:Ken, have you considered that these magical stones could have come down from the Roswell site? - Pete ;-) On May 26, 2014, at 8:10 AM, Ken Harrington wrote:Peter, Interesting! There is a pile of stones up in the area of Brantley Lake that have a distinctive metallic ring to them when struck by something. They are all rather small (less than 12) long and are not like anything else in the area. I have been curious for some time as to what gave them the metallic tone quality. Your reference to high heat makes me think they may have been brought in from another area where there may have been some volcanic activity. And then again it may be that they are just rocks and this e-mail will confirm for all that I have rocks in my head. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: pjca...@gwi.net Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 20:36:34 -0400 To: txcavem...@yahoo.com CC: s...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [SWR] Ringing stones Karen: I'm surprised no one else has offered an explanation as of yet. My guess, in part because I am potter, is that it has to do with the crystalline structure of the stones. The reason I mention pottery is because many of my pots, when they come out of the very high temperature firing in my propane fired kiln (roughly 2350 F or cone 10 as the pyrometric cone number is called), have a wonderful and sustained ring to them when I rap my fingers on the rim of some pieces. Some can sustain that ring for half a minute or so. During the firing when the clay body is vitrifying and melting the various ingredients together into one another, a crystalline structure develops. Clay is basically composed of silica, alumina and various oxides such as potassium, sodium, lithium, calcium and a small handful of others that lower the melting temperature of the silica and alumina components. When they interact at the high temperature I fire to, that crystalline structure bonds all the ingredients into a very tight, hard material, extremely resistant to chemical attack. In general, the higher the firing temperature, the longer the ringing sound will last. As such, stoneware and porcelain pottery tends to have the better and longer lasting ringing sound than lower fired clay bodies such as earthenware. Obviously not all stones (and I am assuming you are including stalactites and various other calcite formations in this category) are formed by heat reaction. Plenty of them, such as calcite formations, occur through crystalline growth without the application of heat. While those produced at higher temperatures may be stronger on a molecular level, that doesn't mean that they won't produce a ringing sound as a result of that crystalline growth. Plenty of stals have a long and sustained ring to them. There is also another factor involved in a prolonged ringing sound. In the case of my pots, the most pronounced ringing comes from bowl shapes. A platter may ring as well, but the longest and purest ringing tones come from bowl shapes. Mugs don't ring at all, nor do plates, but the molecular structure of the clay is essentially identical in all of them. The same could be said for stalactites. Short, stubby stals don't do much more than just clunk when they are rapped by a finger. Longer stals have a much greater resonance and it is likely due to the longer length vs girth of the formation. Soda straws don't ring, but a long stalactite certainly is much more likely to sustain a ring than virtually any other formation. This is certainly a very simplified version of why things ring and I hope that other more knowledgable people will respond as well. This is based mostly on empirical evidence from my own experience as a potter and a caver. Perhaps someone from Luray Caverns should answer this question as they are the ones with the stalacpipe organ which uses a keyboard driven hammer device attached to various tuned stalactites throughout the cave. It's pretty impressive Peter Jones SITDCP Card 2010.tif On May 25, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Karen Perry
[Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
That is a fantastic story! I grew up going on school trips and family visits to Luray Caverns. I adored hearing Oh, Shenandoah played there. It sent chills down my spine. Very cool. On May 26, 2014, at 10:35 AM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote: Interesting comments, Peter. Brings back an unusual memory. In the late 50's, when I was a student at RPI, I found myself touring Luray Caverns. An old guy with a rubber mallet and a tuning fork was thumping around in the cave. I wandered away from the tour and started talking to him. It turned out that his helper had some sort family emergency and I ended up being hired to assist him for most of a week. It was a very trial and error process. He thumped around with his little rubber mallet until he found the exact tone that he wanted. My job was to carefully mark the spot and label it as he instructed me. He had a check-sheet with the list of notes, and a detailed layout of the room so he could locate the right spot again. He was still at it when I left, but was down to a few elusive notes that he was trying to find. Yes, I have been back, and the results ARE impressive. I've always thought of it as the original surround sound. DirtDoc.
Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
I was in on the rebuild job. They said it had been a great idea but it didn't work right. - Original Message - From: JAMES D EVATT nmca...@centurylink.net Cc: 2 - Dwight on COMCAST dirt...@comcast.net Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 5:17:26 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Ringing stones Doc, When I was knee-high to a diamondback, my folks finally relented to my badgering and took me to a commercial cave, my first underground adventure. I was hooked, lined, and sinkered right then and there. The cave was less than 100 miles from home, and mighty well-known even at that time. We lived in Towson Maryland. The year was 1950. I was 7 years old. The cave was Caverns of Luray. We had to park in the triangular parking lot in the farthest row from the concession building, even then. Waited over an hour for the tour. They had, as I remember, only about 6 notes working right on the Stalactapipe Organ. Passed my 50 year point with NSS last month. Haven't got my pin yet but as busy as they are in moving the headquarters, I'm not too worried. Jim
