Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
I used to work for "an" historian at TPWD. I used to piss her off by asking if history was "truth" or "facts". in all truthiness, T. -Original Message- From: Stephen Fleming <casto...@gmail.com>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 10:54 AM To: Chris Vreeland <cvreel...@austin.rr.com>Cc: Texas Cavers <TEXASCAVERS@TEXASCAVERS.COM>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com wrote: The thing that gets to me is how in white history texts, the word "massacre" is used to describe ay event in which whites were killed by indians, and the word "battle" is used to describe any event in which indians were killed by whites, including army raids on sleeping encampments of women, children the elderly. I've even seen evidence of this in the roadside historical markers in Texas. History is not recounted by the losers. Things done by the opponents are heinous; similar actions by the victors are heroic. http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
This book is a must-read for anyone really interested in the truth behind the indian wars of the late 1800's. There's quite a few more I could suggest off-list to those who are really interested, as I kind of went off on a tangent a few years ago, and have a whole shelf devoted to Native American history. The thing that gets to me is how in white history texts, the word massacre is used to describe ay event in which whites were killed by indians, and the word battle is used to describe any event in which indians were killed by whites, including army raids on sleeping encampments of women, children the elderly. I've even seen evidence of this in the roadside historical markers in Texas. On Jun 26, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Scott Nicholson wrote: The book Bury my heart at Wounded Knee has a compilation of first- person accounts (by indians present at the battle) that anyone interested should check out. In fact, the whole book is an interesting read. Ciao, Scott Nicholson Broker/Waterboy Discovery Realty Group 512-947-2688 KW Commercial www.DiscoveryAustin.com - Original Message From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com To: Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com; Belski, Dave bel...@valornet.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:58:17 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I thoroughly enjoyed the account of that battle in the movie Little Big Man starring (a rather young) Dustin Hoffman. It too was probably historically incorrect - but I imagine it was a fairly close 'personality sketch' of an arrogant and delusional Custer (who reminds me of another person who has unfortunately been put in charge). Does anyone out there know how close the movie came in summarizing the actual events of that fateful day? -WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net wrote: Osiyo, Unakas: Many misstatements. Tsalagi (Cherokee) were definitely not there. The N.A. encampment consisted mainly of Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. The Seventh under Custer consisted of 211 troops and officers, not five. Five refers to companies of troops, or the five accompanying civilians. The battle took place in 1876, not 1865. 1865 had it's own famous and infamous events. Custer deserved much worse than he got. His troops were forced by him into the greatest mass U.S. suicide in history - until Jonestown. For a quick source on the battle, refer to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn Jim Evatt - Original Message - From: Dave Belski To: wp...@cox.net Cc: ak7ar: cox.net ; Bob Jenney ; Bob Kappler ; Brian duffy ; Caren ; Chris Weddle ; clarkejanet: msn.com ; Dirk ; Dr. Besserman ; Francis Walker ; Frank Brady ; Fred ; George ; Glenn Grape ; Jake montoya ; Jim Gilbreath ; Jerry Chacon ; jlug: prontomail.com ; Joe Luglio ; Marti Reich ; Manny Montoya ; Mona Johnson ; Perri Touche ; Rich G. ; Rob Offerle ; Sam Horner ; Scotty Clements ; Shawn ; sloppyflo: yahoo.com ; Steve Smith ; stina_b...@msn.com ; Sue Philpot ; Texascavers ; TCochrane: centurytel.net ; timloomis1: msn.com ; Tim Kovacs ; Walter Moffit ; William Decker Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com wrote: The thing that gets to me is how in white history texts, the word massacre is used to describe ay event in which whites were killed by indians, and the word battle is used to describe any event in which indians were killed by whites, including army raids on sleeping encampments of women, children the elderly. I've even seen evidence of this in the roadside historical markers in Texas. History is not recounted by the losers. Things done by the opponents are heinous; similar actions by the victors are heroic.
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
The thing that gets to me is how in white history texts, the word massacre is used to describe ay event in which whites were killed by indians, and the word battle is used to describe any event dear Chris - it doesnt stop there. You may notice that 'terrorists' blow up americans, and soldiers destroy Iraqi, Afghani, Vietnamese . . . weddings, civilians, schoolchildren, temples all of whom are 'suspected terrorists'. Its nice always being right Nancy I find the question Why are we here? to be typically human. I'd suggest Are we here? would be the more logical question. - Mr. Spock, Star Trek
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
Osiyo, Unakas: Many misstatements. Tsalagi (Cherokee) were definitely not there. The N.A. encampment consisted mainly of Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. The Seventh under Custer consisted of 211 troops and officers, not five. Five refers to companies of troops, or the five accompanying civilians. The battle took place in 1876, not 1865. 1865 had it's own famous and infamous events. Custer deserved much worse than he got. His troops were forced by him into the greatest mass U.S. suicide in history - until Jonestown. For a quick source on the battle, refer to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn Jim Evatt - Original Message - From: Dave Belski To: wp...@cox.net Cc: ak7ar: cox.net ; Bob Jenney ; Bob Kappler ; Brian duffy ; Caren ; Chris Weddle ; clarkejanet: msn.com ; Dirk ; Dr. Besserman ; Francis Walker ; Frank Brady ; Fred ; George ; Glenn Grape ; Jake montoya ; Jim Gilbreath ; Jerry Chacon ; jlug: prontomail.com ; Joe Luglio ; Marti Reich ; Manny Montoya ; Mona Johnson ; Perri Touche ; Rich G. ; Rob Offerle ; Sam Horner ; Scotty Clements ; Shawn ; sloppyflo: yahoo.com ; Steve Smith ; stina_b...@msn.com ; Sue Philpot ; Texascavers ; TCochrane: centurytel.net ; timloomis1: msn.com ; Tim Kovacs ; Walter Moffit ; William Decker Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
I thoroughly enjoyed the account of that battle in the movie Little Big Man starring (a rather young) Dustin Hoffman. It too was probably historically incorrect - but I imagine it was a fairly close 'personality sketch' of an arrogant and delusional Custer (who reminds me of another person who has unfortunately been put in charge). Does anyone out there know how close the movie came in summarizing the actual events of that fateful day? -WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net wrote: Osiyo, Unakas: Many misstatements. Tsalagi (Cherokee) were definitely not there. The N.A. encampment consisted mainly of Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. The Seventh under Custer consisted of 211 troops and officers, not five. Five refers to companies of troops, or the five accompanying civilians. The battle took place in 1876, not 1865. 1865 had it's own famous and infamous events. Custer deserved much worse than he got. His troops were forced by him into the greatest mass U.S. suicide in history - until Jonestown. For a quick source on the battle, refer to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn Jim Evatt - Original Message - *From:* Dave Belski bel...@valornet.com *To:* wp...@cox.net *Cc:* ak7ar: cox.net ak...@cox.net ; Bob Jenney rjen...@carondelet.org; Bob Kappler bkapp...@azcorrections.gov ; Brian duffybdu...@email.arizona.edu; Caren carentuc...@cox.net ; Chris Weddle chriswed...@hotmail.com ; clarkejanet: msn.com clarkeja...@msn.com ; Dirk dirk.and...@gmail.com ; Dr. Besserman emer...@besserman.com ; Francis Walkerfwalker_s...@hotmail.com; Frank Brady end...@aol.com ; Fred rxs...@cox.net ; Georgegedpr...@comcast.net; Glenn Grape glen.gr...@honeywell.com ; Jake montoya yourbasics...@aol.com ; Jim Gilbreath jbgarchit...@theriver.com ; Jerry Chaconjchacon...@hotmail.com; jlug: prontomail.com j...@prontomail.com ; Joe Luglio jlug...@comcast.net ; Marti Reich lilma...@yahoo.com ; Manny Montoya desertpe...@msn.com ; Mona Johnson balloon...@doglover.com ; Perri Touchetennisfreaktou...@yahoo.com; Rich G. re...@aol.com ; Rob Offerle roffe...@juno.com ; Sam Hornerskhor...@raytheon.com; Scotty Clements sbclem...@earthlink.net ; Shawn happy1...@aol.com ; sloppyflo: yahoo.com sloppy...@yahoo.com ; Steve Smith stevenlsm...@usa.net ; stina_b...@msn.com ; Sue Philpot sue.phil...@triadhospitals.com ; Texascavers Texascavers@texascavers.com ; TCochrane: centurytel.nettcochr...@centurytel.net; timloomis1: msn.com timloom...@msn.com ; Tim Kovacs tkov...@cox.net ; Walter Moffit mcsom...@yahoo.com ; William Decker decker.willi...@phoenix.gov *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:18 PM *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
The book Bury my heart at Wounded Knee has a compilation of first-person accounts (by indians present at the battle) that anyone interested should check out. In fact, the whole book is an interesting read. Ciao, Scott Nicholson Broker/Waterboy Discovery Realty Group 512-947-2688 KW Commercial www.DiscoveryAustin.com - Original Message From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com To: Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com; Belski, Dave bel...@valornet.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:58:17 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I thoroughly enjoyed the account of that battle in the movie Little Big Man starring (a rather young) Dustin Hoffman. It too was probably historically incorrect - but I imagine it was a fairly close 'personality sketch' of an arrogant and delusional Custer (who reminds me of another person who has unfortunately been put in charge). Does anyone out there know how close the movie came in summarizing the actual events of that fateful day? -WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net wrote: Osiyo, Unakas: Many misstatements. Tsalagi (Cherokee) were definitely not there. The N.A. encampment consisted mainly of Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. The Seventh under Custer consisted of 211 troops and officers, not five. Five refers to companies of troops, or the five accompanying civilians. The battle took place in 1876, not 1865. 1865 had it's own famous and infamous events. Custer deserved much worse than he got. His troops were forced by him into the greatest mass U.S. suicide in history - until Jonestown. For a quick source on the battle, refer to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn Jim Evatt - Original Message - From: Dave Belski To: wp...@cox.net Cc: ak7ar: cox.net ; Bob Jenney ; Bob Kappler ; Brian duffy ; Caren ; Chris Weddle ; clarkejanet: msn.com ; Dirk ; Dr. Besserman ; Francis Walker ; Frank Brady ; Fred ; George ; Glenn Grape ; Jake montoya ; Jim Gilbreath ; Jerry Chacon ; jlug: prontomail.com ; Joe Luglio ; Marti Reich ; Manny Montoya ; Mona Johnson ; Perri Touche ; Rich G. ; Rob Offerle ; Sam Horner ; Scotty Clements ; Shawn ; sloppyflo: yahoo.com ; Steve Smith ; stina_b...@msn.com ; Sue Philpot ; Texascavers ; TCochrane: centurytel.net ; timloomis1: msn.com ; Tim Kovacs ; Walter Moffit ; William Decker Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
Great movie! Mark From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] Sent: Thu 6/26/2008 9:58 AM To: Jim Evatt Cc: Texas Cavers; Belski, Dave Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I thoroughly enjoyed the account of that battle in the movie Little Big Man starring (a rather young) Dustin Hoffman.
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
