RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Alex, Thanks for your thoughtful input on these US and world problems. After reading them I had several minor observations but hey, this string could go on forever. So until another debatable subject arises, we can rest our minds and fingers. I forgot where you are domiciled but hope that you can get to God's Country (Paradise) for TCR 08 so that we can put faces with our differences (mine is ugly but the only one that I have). Fritz From: Alex Sproul [mailto:imoca...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 8:24 PM To: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Fritz -- ...unlike at the beginning of WW 2 when the incentive was patriotism and saving our way of life, the incentive now is purely monetary. So, indeed the question may be not if they can but will they? The giant companies may make millions in charitable (tax deductible) contributions but will not spend the billions on refineries or renewable energy sources without an expectation (or guarantee) of long term profits. Well said. That's it in a nutshell. We could still be drilling for new production and storing it... But of course oil companies would have to know that oil would be the primary energy source for years to come to make the expenditure. I fear that's the real reason we haven't seen any new refineries in 30 years. Big Oil knows a lot more about peak oil theory than they're telling us, but the lack of new refineries speaks volumes. To their credit, most of the oil companies *are* making some investments in alternative energy (call it diversification, if you will...). But I suspect it's mostly a smoke screen while they bilk the oil crisis for all its worth, right down to the last drop squeezed from shale. They will have to do that regardless, as it's now so late in the game that there is sure to be a significant gap between the end of oil and the adequacy of something else. If and when gasoline exceeds a certain price that will vary for individuals, they will take drastic measures and we could see consumption decline which would affect oil company profits. That first part is definitely true, and we are seeing Americans changing their ways even now. But the US simply cannot affect oil prices by reducing its demand. The oil companies are global conglomerates, and China and India are *each* poised to exceed US demand any day now. China is putting 9 million new (that's *additional*) automobiles on the road every year, India almost as many. Demand will continue to rise, and with it prices, until the oil is all gone. If we, and they, haven't implemented an alternate energy plan by then, a global collapse to the stone age will ensue. Hey Alex, it is never too late. We just all suffer until it finally gets fixed. I admire your optimism, but I think it's a matter of whether we all will *survive* until it finally gets fixed. I also have great respect for the fact that you are a true conservative, as opposed to one of those nefarious neocons who propped up that idiot, Still President Bush, and drove this country to the brink of ruin. We can politely agree to disagree about some things, and agree on others. Whoever becomes President (and it's pretty clear I would opt for Obama) will have a tough row to hoe. We have to move with all deliberate speed from staggering debt to staggering expenditures for energy research, infrastructure repair, and a host of other long-neglected needs. We can no longer pass off our debts to our great-great-grandchildren, so the 'no new taxes' mantra rings pretty hollow these days. As we're all now finding out at the grocery store and the gas pump, we've got to find a way to pay for what we need, and for the government, that may well mean some new taxes. There's no free lunch; it's being foreclosed on. And with that, I shall agree with you that I, too, am much too slow in my composition. I makes it up as I goes along, so let's move on to something else. Alex -- Alex Sproul, NSS 8086 NSS IT Committee
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Even for those who can afford the high cost of gasoline, they (we) should not be putting billions of our dollars in the pockets of OPEC... Then WTF *should* we be doing, Fritz? Walking? There'll be no tipping the balance of where the oil comes from in the next couple of decades at a minimum. And by then demand will have quadrupled; ergo $20/gallon gas, still accruing to the Middle East. I thought you Republicans all believed that the capitalist free market was king... Or is that only when it benefits *you*? Alex - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Our congressman, Greg Walden, is proposing a new bill in the House called the Security and Energy for America Act, which he says would cut dependence on foreign oil and fund timber payments. To hear what he has to say, go to http://www.kdrv.com/article.aspx?id=43420 From: imoca...@comcast.net To: o...@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:03:55 -0400 CC: fh...@townandcountryins.com Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Even for those who can afford the high cost of gasoline, they (we) should not be putting billions of our dollars in the pockets of OPEC... Then WTF *should* we be doing, Fritz? Walking? There'll be no tipping the balance of where the oil comes from in the next couple of decades at a minimum. And by then demand will have quadrupled; ergo $20/gallon gas, still accruing to the Middle East. I thought you Republicans all believed that the capitalist free market was king... Or is that only when it benefits *you*? Alex - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Hey Alex, Better late than never in responding to my posts of June 19 to Louise, ET AL. You may have misinterpreted what I was trying to get across. I am aware that the US (and many others) will be dependant on OPEC and others for the foreseeable future. But, do we still want to be in that position ten years from now? I am not personally knowledgeable about the oil industry but do read and hear much information and believe that I can discern what is true, based on the source (not from politicians of either party). I disagree with your assumption that we cannot tip the balance within the next two decades or more. The United States probably has as much petroleum available to it as any other country if we choose to produce it. If our citizens demand it (and they are), congress could lift the bans on drilling for oil and gas in many areas with proven (?) reserves. My uneducated guess is that oil production companies could bring in producing wells within a couple of years from the date that congress passes the required legislation. It would not surprise me if the major oil companies were able to have additional oil refineries on line within five years if they were warranted (meaning an adequate return on their investment). I am more concerned about the environment than most but it makes no sense not to drill in areas available to us when it is a virtual certainty that no damage will occur to the environment or its inhabitants. Probably the largest oil related damage ever, occurred at sea and not as a result of a drilling operation. Exxon has paid billions for this and it isn't over yet. Had it been a foreign government ship they would have told us TS, it is our problem and that they had already lost enough in the value of the oil. You are correct in that if our government does not act on allowing drilling in the proposed areas it will be twenty years or more before we get relief from higher fuel prices than we have ever known. In reality, I do not believe that the various alternative sources of energy will replace oil within the next twenty years. It has already started but if gasoline prices continue to rise to $7. or more, only those with annual incomes upwards of $500,000. will continue to drive vehicles that attain less than thirty MPG. I may even get rid of the Ford Exploder that Travis says that I drive. Yep, I am a Republican because that is the party that most represents my conservative views although they are not conservative enough to suit me. I hope to see everyone at TCR October 10 and urge everyone who bothers to read this epistle to join or send in your dues to TSA, if you haven't already done so. Fritz -Original Message- From: Alex Sproul [mailto:imoca...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:04 AM To: o...@texascavers.com Cc: Fritz Holt Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Even for those who can afford the high cost of gasoline, they (we) should not be putting billions of our dollars in the pockets of OPEC... Then WTF *should* we be doing, Fritz? Walking? There'll be no tipping the balance of where the oil comes from in the next couple of decades at a minimum. And by then demand will have quadrupled; ergo $20/gallon gas, still accruing to the Middle East. I thought you Republicans all believed that the capitalist free market was king... Or is that only when it benefits *you*? Alex - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Better late than never in responding to my posts of June 19 to Louise, ET AL. Well, I'll admit that I found that digest (for reasons unexplained) in my spam folder, but I'd swear it was from 29 June, not 19 June, or I would have left well enough alone... I disagree with your assumption that we cannot tip the balance within the next two decades or more. It's not so much that we *can't* but that we *won't* -- due to the aforementioned capitalist market forces requring a huge profit potential in order to move (which in this case would have to be a huge gov't giveaway). I'd rather see the incentives move the hedge fund crowd in the direction of renewable energy. Actually, I'd rather see a few companies do it because it's *the right thing to do* rather than require huge bribes. Exxon and BP can surely afford to be magnanimous. My uneducated guess is that oil production companies could bring in producing wells within a couple of years from the date that congress passes the required legislation. No doubt they could, but then what? Our refining capacity is operating at full tilt now, and one good hurricane could cripple that by a third. It would not surprise me if the major oil companies were able to have additional oil refineries on line within five years if they were warranted (meaning an adequate return on their investment). My semi-educated guess is that,given ample incentives, it would still take at least a decade to augment refining capacity. I've heard that said more than once by oil execs. And where would those incentives come from? The govt't would have to *buy* them for them, at a minimum, because they have no reason to move in that direction. Why spend your hard-earned exessive profits (or even free gov't $$) on more capacity to bring the price of gasoline down, when you can do nothing, keep the price going up, and make a lot more money? I'm not arguing that we should not exploit our petroleum resources as an expedient measure while we perfect renewable sources. I'm arguing that it's already too late, and our government is so broken, it couldn't fix this if it wanted to (which it doesn't yet). We could have made a big leap forward with the huge surplus we had in 1999 plus the 3 trillion we've sunk into the sands of the Middle East (to no apparent effect). Oh yeah; hey, that corresponds to when the capitalist warmongering Republicans took over. :^D (Sorry, Fritz, I had to zing ya!) I will agree, though, that the Republicans aren't conservative enough for most Republicans these days. And that's a good thing. We're long overdue for some bold moves. Alex -- Alex Sproul, NSS 8086 NSS IT Committee - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Alex, I won't put my uneducated guess up against your semi-educated guess as there are a lot of ifs which are beyond our control. I believe that US industry can do almost anything if they want to but unlike at the beginning of WW 2 when the incentive was patriotism and saving our way of life, the incentive now is purely monetary. So, indeed the question may be not if they can but will they? The giant companies may make millions in charitable (tax deductible) contributions but will not spend the billions on refineries or renewable energy sources without an expectation (or guarantee) of long term profits. If the refineries are truly operating at full capacity then what is first needed are more refineries. We could still be drilling for new production and storing it or if we have as much as is reported, selling it on the world market. But of course oil companies would have to know that oil would be the primary energy source for years to come to make the expenditure. I am not sure that the oil companies doing nothing and allowing the price of oil (gasoline) to steadily increase would be to their advantage. At some point, and it is beginning, the people will seek other means of transportation or ways of conducting their work without actually having to travel to and from. If and when gasoline exceeds a certain price that will vary for individuals, they will take drastic measures and we could see consumption decline which would affect oil company profits. The energy crisis is a tough nut to crack and I have yet to hear either presidential candidate propose any possible solution that makes any sense. Hey Alex, it is never too late. We just all suffer until it finally gets fixed. I don't know what if anything McCain and party can do to alleviate the pain at the pump and other equally important problems but Obama's socialistic ideas will only result in exacerbating them. I wish that we had better candidates from which to choose but my vote is with McCain and not with someone whom I see as radical and not knowledgeable enough for the job. I expect some liberal rebuttals from fellow cavers to which I may not respond as I am much too slow in my composition. I makes it up as I goes along. Fritz From: Alex Sproul [mailto:imoca...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:22 PM To: Fritz Holt Cc: o...@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Better late than never in responding to my posts of June 19 to Louise, ET AL. Well, I'll admit that I found that digest (for reasons unexplained) in my spam folder, but I'd swear it was from 29 June, not 19 June, or I would have left well enough alone... I disagree with your assumption that we cannot tip the balance within the next two decades or more. It's not so much that we *can't* but that we *won't* -- due to the aforementioned capitalist market forces requring a huge profit potential in order to move (which in this case would have to be a huge gov't giveaway). I'd rather see the incentives move the hedge fund crowd in the direction of renewable energy. Actually, I'd rather see a few companies do it because it's *the right thing to do* rather than require huge bribes. Exxon and BP can surely afford to be magnanimous. My uneducated guess is that oil production companies could bring in producing wells within a couple of years from the date that congress passes the required legislation. No doubt they could, but then what? Our refining capacity is operating at full tilt now, and one good hurricane could cripple that by a third. It would not surprise me if the major oil companies were able to have additional oil refineries on line within five years if they were warranted (meaning an adequate return on their investment). My semi-educated guess is that,given ample incentives, it would still take at least a decade to augment refining capacity. I've heard that said more than once by oil execs. And where would those incentives come from? The govt't would have to *buy* them for them, at a minimum, because they have no reason to move in that direction. Why spend your hard-earned exessive profits (or even free gov't $$) on more capacity to bring the price of gasoline down, when you can do nothing, keep the price going up, and make a lot more money? I'm not arguing that we should not exploit our petroleum resources as an expedient measure while we perfect renewable sources. I'm arguing that it's already too late, and our government is so broken, it couldn't fix this if it wanted to (which it doesn't yet). We could have made a big leap forward with the huge surplus we had in 1999 plus the 3 trillion we've sunk into the sands of the Middle East (to no apparent effect). Oh yeah; hey, that corresponds to when the capitalist warmongering Republicans took over. :^D (Sorry, Fritz, I had to zing ya!) I will agree, though, that the Republicans aren't
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Fritz -- ...unlike at the beginning of WW 2 when the incentive was patriotism and saving our way of life, the incentive now is purely monetary. So, indeed the question may be not if they can but will they? The giant companies may make millions in charitable (tax deductible) contributions but will not spend the billions on refineries or renewable energy sources without an expectation (or guarantee) of long term profits. Well said. That's it in a nutshell. We could still be drilling for new production and storing it... But of course oil companies would have to know that oil would be the primary energy source for years to come to make the expenditure. I fear that's the real reason we haven't seen any new refineries in 30 years. Big Oil knows a lot more about peak oil theory than they're telling us, but the lack of new refineries speaks volumes. To their credit, most of the oil companies *are* making some investments in alternative energy (call it diversification, if you will...). But I suspect it's mostly a smoke screen while they bilk the oil crisis for all its worth, right down to the last drop squeezed from shale. They will have to do that regardless, as it's now so late in the game that there is sure to be a significant gap between the end of oil and the adequacy of something else. If and when gasoline exceeds a certain price that will vary for individuals, they will take drastic measures and we could see consumption decline which would affect oil company profits. That first part is definitely true, and we are seeing Americans changing their ways even now. But the US simply cannot affect oil prices by reducing its demand. The oil companies are global conglomerates, and China and India are *each* poised to exceed US demand any day now. China is putting 9 million new (that's *additional*) automobiles on the road every year, India almost as many. Demand will continue to rise, and with it prices, until the oil is all gone. If we, and they, haven't implemented an alternate energy plan by then, a global collapse to the stone age will ensue. Hey Alex, it is never too late. We just all suffer until it finally gets fixed. I admire your optimism, but I think it's a matter of whether we all will *survive* until it finally gets fixed. I also have great respect for the fact that you are a true conservative, as opposed to one of those nefarious neocons who propped up that idiot, Still President Bush, and drove this country to the brink of ruin. We can politely agree to disagree about some things, and agree on others. Whoever becomes President (and it's pretty clear I would opt for Obama) will have a tough row to hoe. We have to move with all deliberate speed from staggering debt to staggering expenditures for energy research, infrastructure repair, and a host of other long-neglected needs. We can no longer pass off our debts to our great-great-grandchildren, so the 'no new taxes' mantra rings pretty hollow these days. As we're all now finding out at the grocery store and the gas pump, we've got to find a way to pay for what we need, and for the government, that may well mean some new taxes. There's no free lunch; it's being foreclosed on. And with that, I shall agree with you that I, too, am much too slow in my composition. I makes it up as I goes along, so let's move on to something else. Alex -- Alex Sproul, NSS 8086 NSS IT Committee - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fholt@townandcountryins.comTo: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyoung@townandcountryins.comDate: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AMTo: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; Pmrgdee@aol.comSubject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Louise, I don't know but assume that it includes both. But, as we know, the will of the people (petitions and popular vote) does not always prevail. What I have heard is that of the seventeen million acres at ANWR, only two thousand have been set aside for mineral exploration. I also assume that congress could exempt this tract from drilling. I personally think that we need to drill there if there are proven reserves and with adequate safety provisions. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:20 PM To: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com; Dianne West; Jenny Holt; Mandy Holt; bl...@vownet.net; Guy Heath; Jimmy Walker; Reed Moraw; ronaldra...@comcast.net; Bob Rathbun; Chris Young Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fh...@townandcountryins.com To: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyo...@townandcountryins.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500 Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AM To: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; pmrg...@aol.com Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
PS Even for those who can afford the high cost of gasoline, they (we) should not be putting billions of our dollars in the pockets of OPEC member nations, many of whom are hostile and uncooperative toward the United States of America. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:20 PM To: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com; Dianne West; Jenny Holt; Mandy Holt; bl...@vownet.net; Guy Heath; Jimmy Walker; Reed Moraw; ronaldra...@comcast.net; Bob Rathbun; Chris Young Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fh...@townandcountryins.com To: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyo...@townandcountryins.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500 Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AM To: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; pmrg...@aol.com Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/
Re: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
And Oil/gas has a much smaller impact foot print then most of the other minerals that would be looked for/developed. Think about the impact of mines. Terry H. Fritz Holt wrote: Louise, I don't know but assume that it includes both. But, as we know, the will of the people (petitions and popular vote) does not always prevail. What I have heard is that of the seventeen million acres at ANWR, only two thousand have been set aside for mineral exploration. I also assume that congress could exempt this tract from drilling. I personally think that we need to drill there if there are proven reserves and with adequate safety provisions. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:20 PM To: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com; Dianne West; Jenny Holt; Mandy Holt; bl...@vownet.net; Guy Heath; Jimmy Walker; Reed Moraw; ronaldra...@comcast.net; Bob Rathbun; Chris Young Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fh...@townandcountryins.com To: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyo...@townandcountryins.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500 Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AM To: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; pmrg...@aol.com Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/ - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
Correct. Much of lignite and other minerals is close to the surface and the most economical way to access it is strip mining which is disastrous to the surface. Fritz -Original Message- From: Terry Holsinger [mailto:tr...@sprynet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: Fritz Holt Cc: Louise Power; o...@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign And Oil/gas has a much smaller impact foot print then most of the other minerals that would be looked for/developed. Think about the impact of mines. Terry H. Fritz Holt wrote: Louise, I don't know but assume that it includes both. But, as we know, the will of the people (petitions and popular vote) does not always prevail. What I have heard is that of the seventeen million acres at ANWR, only two thousand have been set aside for mineral exploration. I also assume that congress could exempt this tract from drilling. I personally think that we need to drill there if there are proven reserves and with adequate safety provisions. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:20 PM To: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com; Dianne West; Jenny Holt; Mandy Holt; bl...@vownet.net; Guy Heath; Jimmy Walker; Reed Moraw; ronaldra...@comcast.net; Bob Rathbun; Chris Young Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fh...@townandcountryins.com To: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyo...@townandcountryins.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500 Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AM To: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; pmrg...@aol.com Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/ - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign
How about oil shale and oil sands? We can just bring down mountains instead of digging holes in the ground. From: blove@vownet.netTo: fh...@townandcountryins.com; power_lou...@hotmail.com; o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyoung@townandcountryins.comSubject: Re: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to signDate: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:53:44 -0500 The example I have heard about Anwar is that the drilling area would be comparable to a postage stamp on a football field. Jackie - Original Message - From: Fritz Holt To: Louise Power ; o...@texascavers.com ; Dianne West ; Jenny Holt ; Mandy Holt ; bl...@vownet.net ; Guy Heath ; Jimmy Walker ; Reed Moraw ; ronaldra...@comcast.net ; Bob Rathbun ; Chris Young Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Louise, I don’t know but assume that it includes both. But, as we know, the will of the people (petitions and popular vote) does not always prevail. What I have heard is that of the seventeen million acres at ANWR, only two thousand have been set aside for mineral exploration. I also assume that congress could exempt this tract from drilling. I personally think that we need to drill there if there are proven reserves and with adequate safety provisions. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:20 PMTo: Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com; Dianne West; Jenny Holt; Mandy Holt; bl...@vownet.net; Guy Heath; Jimmy Walker; Reed Moraw; ronaldra...@comcast.net; Bob Rathbun; Chris YoungSubject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Does this include ANWR or just offshore? From: fholt@townandcountryins..comTo: o...@texascavers.com; dw...@townandcountryins.com; jhol...@hotmail.com; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; bl...@vownet.net; hea...@satx.rr.com; jim...@gvtc.com; rmo...@townandcountryins.com; ronaldra...@comcast.net; rrath...@townandcountryins.com; cyoung@townandcountryins.comDate: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:02:02 -0500Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign I am an environmentalist but do not believe that drilling within our legal boundaries will do harm to places where oil and gas may be plentiful. Should harm occur, stiff penalties should be a part of the drilling permit/contract. Our members of congress are out of touch with the best interest of our nation and its citizens. Fritz From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AMTo: b...@moment.net; lyonb...@hotmail.com; kbban...@yahoo.com; bva...@sbcglobal.net; cbla...@sbcglobal.net; cecevanbrus...@aol.com; charlotte.ba...@cfisd.net; chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; d-metc...@hotmail.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; gracea...@hotmail.com; deliv...@smilebox.com; jayjay9...@aol.com; jlepa...@optonline.net; karenashm...@sbcglobal.net; shandle...@aol.com; dkbr...@grandecom.net; landscapeg...@sbcglobal.net; k...@wdc-construction.com; krissieva...@sbcglobal.net; lance.crabt...@halliburton.com; mcegl...@yahoo.com; roselyo...@hotmail.com; princelyp...@yahoo.com; maxin...@aol.com; proman5...@cfl.rr.com; moncrie...@aol.com; pdlie...@yahoo.com; irish_...@yahoo.com; Pmrgdee@aol.comSubject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign Subject: FW: Oil Drilling Petition to sign You may want to sign it: http://www.americansolutions.com/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 8:00 AM
