texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 13:22:10 -0000 Issue 1079
Topics (messages 15107 through 15111):
Pennsylvania cave rescue
15107 by: David
15108 by: David
[texascavers] Mexican Gang Takes Gas Well
15109 by: Simon Newton
a cave web-site from England
15110 by: David
Re: carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
15111 by: Philip L Moss
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
3 men were hiking Friday evening near Bridge Valley Road in Martic Township,
when they decided to go into what's known as the "Cool Caves".
The men, reportedly between age 18 and 20 years old, had walked about 150 ft
back into the narrow caves when the second hiker got stuck between the rocks
at the chest area.
The trapped hikers' position also prevented the first hiker from escaping. The
third man was able to run back and call for help
Dozens of firefighters and rescue workers spent two hours working to
free the men.
"We managed to free him with just slowly lubricating him with soap and water
then actually slide him out," said Chief Deputy Brandon Evans, with the
Pequea Volunteer Fire Company.
One of the men was treated for minor injuries.
The Cool Caves are natural caves that reportedly stretch for miles underground.
According to Pequea fire officials, it is extremely common for hikers
to explore
the caves but people rarely become stuck inside.
My comments:
Dozens of firefighters! How many is that ? If it were more than
50, the reporter would have said "nearly a hundred," so it must
have been somewhere between 24 and 49 firefighters. Right ?
Can you picture them "slowly" lubricating him? I guess they didn't want him
to get hypothermic. Wouldn't baby oil have worked better?
Why do I doubt these caves "stretch for miles underground" ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a video clip of outside the cave.
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/18/259289/4280
I only see about 2 people in the group of at least 11 rescuers
that look equipped to go in a tight cave, much less do a rescue.
Do they really need to string communicating cable? Or
is that a water hose ?
Did they decon their gear ?
I don't see the "dozens" of rescuers that the reporter mentioned.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the Mexican gangs are diversifying...
http://www.pennenergy.com/index/petroleum/display/9399672301/articles/pennenergy/petroleum/exploration/2010/06/armed-men_take_control.html
June 10, 2010
By Phaedra Friend Troy <http://www.google.com/profiles/Phaedra.Troy>
According to a report from Reuters, a group of armed men have taken control
of a natural gas well in northeast Mexico.
Local media is reporting that an armed gang has been in control of the
natural gas well for some two weeks. Although Pemex has not confirmed the
report, the local media said that a number of workers from the well site
have been kidnapped.
Since May 23, the criminal gang has been barricading the Gigante Uno
liquefied natural gas well in the Burgos basin of Nueva Ciudad Guerrero near
the US border. The gang has been stealing natural gas condensate, and the
Mexican army has been unable to penetrate the blockade, reports the press.
Just this week, Pemex filed suit against a number of US oil
producers<http://www.pennenergy.com/index/articles/newsdisplay/1201036310.html>in
a Houston federal court for knowingly buying stolen natural gas
condensate from thieves. In the court filings, Pemex claims that since 2006,
some $300 million in petroleum products have been smuggled across the US
border in tanker trucks that have been hijacked.
Northern Mexico is experiencing extremely escalated violence in connection
to drug trafficking across the border to the US. Reuters reports that 23,000
people have been killed since 2006 because of these criminal gangs.
Stealing oil, natural gas and petroleum products has proven a major
money-maker for these gangs.
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 3:16 AM, <texascavers-digest-h...@texascavers.com>wrote:
>
> texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 01:16:05 -0000 Issue 1078
>
> Topics (messages 15102 through 15106):
>
> [Deep & Punkin' Nature Preserve]
> 15102 by: Don Arburn
>
> Re: LEDs for Locklear
> 15103 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
> 15104 by: mark gee
>
> Re: carbide vs LED
> 15105 by: mark gee
>
> Re: another passing
> 15106 by: Gill Edigar
>
> Administrivia:
>
> To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
> <texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>
>
> To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
> <texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>
>
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> <texascavers@texascavers.com>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Don Arburn <donarb...@mac.com>
> To: Texas Cavers List <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:24:16 -0500
> Subject: [Deep & Punkin' Nature Preserve]
> Anyone interested in helping in the next couple of weeks? Completing porch
> work is the focus, with caving as a reward. There is some interest in
> weekdays, that is an option. Please contact Aaron
> Wertheim <werthei...@hotmail.com> or myself if interested in helping,
> thanks!
>
> Don Arburn
> Deep and Punkin Nature Preserve.
> d...@oztotl.com
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: tbsam...@verizon.net
> To: imoca...@comcast.net
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:36:29 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear
> You could hardly use this like Q-beams are used to subdue a miscreant.
>
> T
>
> "Book 'em, Dan-o!"
>
>
> Jun 12, 2010 02:39:24 PM, imoca...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Here ya go, David!
>
>
> *http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/*<http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/>
>
> Alex
>
> --
> *Alex Sproul*
> *NSS 8086RL/FE*
> *NSS Webmaster*
> *www.caves.org* <http://www.caves.org>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: mark gee <markageetxca...@yahoo.com>
> To: tbsam...@verizon.net, imoca...@comcast.net
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:20:26 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear
> It could light up the Big Room At Carlsbad. The question is how long do the
> batteries last and how heavy is it? Cool light.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "tbsam...@verizon.net" <tbsam...@verizon.net>
> *To:* imoca...@comcast.net
> *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Sat, June 12, 2010 3:36:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear
>
> You could hardly use this like Q-beams are used to subdue a miscreant.
>
> T
>
> "Book 'em, Dan-o!"
>
>
> Jun 12, 2010 02:39:24 PM, imoca...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Here ya go, David!
>
> *http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/*<http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/>
>
> Alex
>
> --
> *Alex Sproul*
> *NSS 8086RL/FE*
> *NSS Webmaster*
> *www.caves.org* <http://www.caves.org/>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: mark gee <markageetxca...@yahoo.com>
> To: Don Arburn <donarb...@mac.com>, Texas Cavers List <
> texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED
> What you talked bout Willis!
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Don Arburn <donarb...@mac.com>
> *To:* Texas Cavers List <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *Sent:* Sat, June 12, 2010 2:50:26 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED
>
> Seriously!?
>
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Philip L Moss <philipm...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> 㰀䠀吀䴀䰀 搀椀爀㴀氀琀爀㸀㰀䠀䔀䄀䐀㸀 㰀䴀䔀吀䄀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀㴀∀䴀匀䠀吀䴀䰀 㘀⸀ ⸀㘀
> ㈀⸀㠀㈀㔀㔀∀ 渀愀洀攀㴀䜀䔀一䔀刀䄀吀伀刀㸀㰀⼀䠀䔀䄀䐀㸀 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀㰀䄀 栀爀攀昀㴀∀洀愀椀氀琀漀㨀䴀愀爀欀⸀䄀氀洀愀渀䀀氀ⴀ㌀挀漀洀⸀挀漀洀∀㸀䴀愀爀欀⸀䄀氀洀愀渀㰀⼀䄀㸀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀 搀椀爀㴀氀琀爀㸀㰀䘀伀一吀 昀愀挀攀㴀䄀爀椀愀氀 挀漀氀漀爀㴀⌀ 猀椀稀攀㴀㈀㸀㰀⼀䘀伀一吀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
> Wow, after reading all of these
> 渀攀愀爀ⴀ搀攀愀琀栀 椀渀挀椀搀攀渀琀猀 挀愀甀猀攀搀 戀礀 漀爀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 挀愀爀戀椀搀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 洀愀欀攀猀 洀攀 眀漀渀搀攀爀 眀栀礀
> anyone would consider not switching to 100% LED use!
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀 搀椀爀㴀氀琀爀㸀㰀䘀伀一吀 昀愀挀攀㴀䄀爀椀愀氀 猀椀稀攀㴀㈀㸀㰀⼀䘀伀一吀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀 搀椀爀㴀氀琀爀㸀㰀䘀伀一吀 昀愀挀攀㴀䄀爀椀愀氀 猀椀稀攀㴀㈀㸀䴀愀爀欀㰀⼀䘀伀一吀㸀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀圀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 焀甀椀戀戀氀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 眀栀攀琀栀攀爀 漀爀 渀漀琀 挀愀爀戀椀搀攀 挀愀甀猀攀搀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀
> 椀渀挀椀搀攀渀琀猀
> or whether say the propane leak might have been a cause? An accident is
> 眀栀愀琀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀猀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 椀洀洀甀琀愀戀氀攀 氀愀眀猀 漀昀 瀀栀礀猀椀挀猀 愀爀攀 椀最渀漀爀攀搀⸀ ⴀ 䄀洀戀爀漀猀攀
> Bierce㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
> But what about all the deaths carbide has prevented? I can think of a
> 昀攀眀 琀爀椀瀀猀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀氀礀 眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀戀椀搀攀 氀愀洀瀀猀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 栀椀最栀
> CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost
> 椀洀洀攀搀椀愀琀攀氀礀 戀礀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀攀 漀昀 洀礀 挀愀爀戀椀搀攀 氀愀洀瀀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 吀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 琀椀洀攀
> 眀愀猀
> less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of
> 礀漀甀 眀栀漀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 洀甀挀栀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 眀椀琀栀 氀漀眀 伀㈀ 椀渀 挀愀瘀攀猀Ⰰ 椀琀 挀愀渀 戀攀 栀椀最栀氀礀
> stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was
> 㤀─ ⠀䤀 栀愀搀 愀 洀攀琀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 搀愀礀⤀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀伀匀䠀䄀 昀漀爀戀椀搀猀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最 椀渀 愀琀洀漀猀瀀栀攀爀攀猀
> below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly.
> 䤀洀愀最椀渀攀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 爀愀瀀瀀攀氀氀椀渀最 椀渀琀漀 愀 猀琀爀愀琀椀昀椀攀搀 愀琀洀漀猀瀀栀攀爀攀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀
> one. How slowly are you rapelling and how are you going to notice the
> 挀栀愀渀最攀猀 椀渀 愀椀爀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀㼀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䌀栀愀渀最椀渀最 漀瘀攀爀 椀渀 戀愀搀 愀椀爀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 搀椀昀昀椀挀甀氀琀 椀渀
> 洀礀
> experience even if the air quality is significantly better than 9% O2; low
> O2 洀愀欀攀猀 漀渀攀 猀琀甀瀀椀搀 ⠀琀攀洀瀀漀爀愀爀椀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 愀洀 氀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀⤀⸀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀䌀愀瀀 氀愀洀瀀猀 洀愀爀欀 猀琀愀琀椀漀渀猀 眀攀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 爀攀洀漀瘀愀戀氀攀Ⰰ 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀 戀攀渀椀最渀 洀愀爀欀猀 愀渀搀
> will mark on relatively wet surfaces.
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
> A cap lamp can be made completely nonmagnetic, is easily removable so that
> 漀渀攀 挀愀渀 爀攀愀搀 椀渀猀琀爀甀洀攀渀琀猀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 礀攀琀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 攀焀甀椀瀀洀攀渀琀 琀漀
> 戀爀椀渀最
> into the cave.
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
> They work and are durable. I have used a cap lamp since I started
> 挀愀瘀椀渀最 椀渀 㤀㜀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 攀氀攀挀琀爀椀挀猀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 礀攀愀爀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀椀洀攀 琀漀 琀椀洀攀
> and currently own an Apex. I still have yet to find one I trust to
> 氀愀猀琀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䴀礀 䄀瀀攀砀 氀攀愀欀猀 椀昀 䤀 瀀甀琀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀甀渀搀攀爀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀漀漀渀攀爀 漀爀 氀愀琀攀爀 椀琀
> 眀椀氀氀
> corrode and quit working from that or some other reason that I will fail to
> 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀爀漀瀀瀀攀搀 愀 挀愀瀀 氀愀洀瀀 搀漀眀渀 愀 㤀
> 昀漀漀琀 瀀椀琀㬀 椀琀 栀愀搀 愀 洀椀渀漀爀 ding and I was able to continue using it for many
> more years and still have it
> 椀渀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最 漀爀搀攀爀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 吀栀攀 䄀甀琀漀氀椀琀攀 䤀 愀洀 甀猀椀渀最 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 㔀
> 礀攀愀爀猀 old. With very low tech maintenance, there is nothing that will go
> wrong
> 眀椀琀栀 椀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 挀愀渀渀漀琀 昀椀砀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀漀漀氀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀愀瘀攀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䄀渀搀 椀琀 眀椀氀氀
> 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀
> go another 50 years with a reasonable amount of care (which is more than I
> can 猀愀礀 昀漀爀 洀攀⤀⸀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀䐀漀 礀漀甀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀愀琀 愀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 氀椀最栀琀猀 椀渀 甀猀攀 琀漀搀愀礀 眀椀氀氀 猀琀椀氀氀
> useable in 20 years? How many times have you been on a trip where an
> 攀氀攀挀琀爀椀挀 氀椀最栀琀 栀愀猀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀氀礀 昀愀椀氀攀搀㼀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 椀琀 昀爀攀焀甀攀渀琀氀礀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀
> 匀漀
> far, I have not seen a Stenlight fail, but I have seen several Apex fail and
> 栀椀最栀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 倀攀琀稀攀氀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀猀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䈀甀琀 匀琀攀渀氀椀最栀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 瘀攀爀礀 戀爀椀最栀琀 愀爀攀
> 愀氀猀漀
> very magnetic and pretty expensive.
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
> Carbides are still not very good for diving I will grant, but with a little
> 欀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 猀琀愀渀搀 甀瀀 琀漀 氀漀渀最ⴀ琀攀爀洀 椀洀洀攀爀猀椀漀渀 焀甀椀琀攀 眀攀氀氀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 愀氀猀漀
> grant they have real drawbacks on multi-day in cave camps. And there
> 椀猀 愀 氀攀愀爀渀椀渀最 挀甀爀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 洀甀挀栀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀⸀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀
>
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 䤀 渀漀 氀漀渀最攀爀 攀渀挀漀甀爀愀最攀 渀攀眀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 琀漀 甀猀攀 挀愀爀戀椀搀攀 氀愀洀瀀猀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䤀
> 搀漀
> think that a durable enough LED light for a reasonable price is
> 渀漀琀 昀愀爀 漀昀昀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䈀甀琀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀愀氀 advantages in having
> some of us around (OK, so I am not around you in
> 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀⤀ 眀栀漀 猀琀椀氀氀 欀渀漀眀 愀渀搀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀 漀氀搀 琀攀挀栀渀漀氀漀最椀攀猀⸀☀渀戀猀瀀㬀 䄀渀搀 洀漀猀琀 漀昀 甀猀
> don't bring CO2 meters caving.
> 㰀䐀䤀嘀㸀㰀䈀刀㸀倀栀椀氀椀瀀 䰀⸀ 䴀漀猀猀㰀䈀刀㸀瀀栀椀氀椀瀀洀漀猀猀䀀樀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀㰀䈀刀㸀㰀⼀䐀䤀嘀㸀㰀⼀䈀伀䐀夀㸀㰀⼀䠀吀䴀䰀㸀
> ਊ戼㹲戼㹲昼湯⁴䥓䕚∽∲挠汯牯∽〣〰〰∰弾彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟㱟是湯㹴戼㹲愼猠祴敬∽䕔员䐭䍅剏呁佉㩎渠湯≥栠敲㵦栢瑴㩰⼯桴物灤牡祴景敦獲樮湵潣⽭䝔㍌㐱⼲挴㈱㉢㠱〳愸㤱㜸搳ね瘱捵•慴杲瑥弽汢湡㹫昼湯⁴慦散∽牁慩≬㰾潦瑮挠汯牯∽〣㐰㠰∰猠穩㵥㌢㸢戼倾湥祮匠潴正䨠浵楰杮㈠〰┰⼼㹢⼼潦瑮㰾牢㰾潦瑮挠汯牯∽〣〰〰∰猠穩㵥㈢㸢楓湧甠⁰潴琠敨⌠‱潶整数湮⁹瑳捯敮獷敬瑴牥映牯映敲潴慤ⅹ戼㹲⼼㹡愼猠祴敬∽佃佌㩒⌠〰〰〰•牨晥∽瑨灴⼺琯楨摲慰瑲潹晦牥番潮挮浯启䱇ㄳ㈴㐯ㅣ戲ㄲ㌸㠰ㅡ㠹㌷浤當≣琠牡敧㵴扟慬歮䄾敷潳敭敐湮卹潴正潣㱭愯㰾是湯㹴⼼潦瑮
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gill Edigar <gi...@att.net>
> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:16:03 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] another passing
> This is a sad turn of events. I always liked Johnny.
> --Ediger
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Mixon Bill <bmixon...@austin.rr.com>wrote:
>
>> Johnny Dearshits, b. May 1941, d. April 10, 2010. R.I.P.
>>
>> Johnny Dearshits was the guy who was crawling through the formations in
>> the original version of the semicircular National Speleological Society
>> logo. He first appeared in a Tom Culverwell sketch on the cover of NSS
>> bulletin 2. When the current streamlined version of the logo was made
>> official by the Board of Governors some years ago (about 1970), I
>> successfully moved to amend the motion to permit continued use of the
>> traditional version by those who wanted to. During its spring meeting this
>> year, the BOG formally laid Johnny Dearshits to rest.
>> --Mixon
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Go to Heaven for the climate,
>> Hell for the company.
>> ----------------------------------------
>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>> AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am only posting this because the web-site below shows some of the
interesting cultural differences between cavers over here and cavers in
places like England:
http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/
Note some of the language differences, like
"Rob broke through into 2m of open draughting passage"
"Powered from their mains genny via a 100m extension cable"
"An excellent afternoon drinking, caving, digging and drinking again"
"Ian removed some of the obstruction blocking the second way into
the cellars."
When was the last time you did a pit using this technique ?
http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/images/stories/galleries/Hillocks_Mine/dscf1408.jpg
( Is he even clipped into the rope ? )
Does this look like any going cave around Rocksprings ?
http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/images/stories/cave_images/gateham_fence_small.jpg
Note they like to name this type of cave as "something Pot." Which
is probably
why they call themselves, "potholers."
Also, notice their reference to Bank Holidays ( as they don't
celebrate our federal holidays
like MLK, Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc )
Also, what the public throws down into the pots is called, "rubbish."
And they end their trip reports by saying,
"The 3 potholers had a 'beer in the byre' before returning home."
David Locklear
Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_holiday#List_of_current_holidays
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark Alman wrote:
"Wow, after reading all of these near-death incidents caused by or around
carbide, it makes me wonder why anyone would consider not switching to
100% LED use!
Mark
Well, I could quibble about whether or not carbide caused all the
incidents or whether the propane leak might have been a cause.
An accident is what happens when the immutable laws of physics are
ignored. - Ambrose Bierce
But what about all the deaths carbide lights have prevented? I can think
of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only
indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad
air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The
most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you
that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in
caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15%
02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids
working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes
out very quickly. Imagine you are rappelling into a stratified
atmosphere similar to this one. How slowly are you rapelling and how are
you going to notice the changes in air quality? Changing over on rope in
bad air is very difficult in my experience even if the air quality is
significantly better than 9% O2; low O2 makes one stupid (temporarily, I
am led to believe).
Cap lamps mark stations well with removable, relatively benign marks and
will mark on relatively wet surfaces.
A cap lamp can be made completely nonmagnetic, is easily removable so
that one can read instruments without having yet another piece of
equipment to bring into the cave.
They work and are durable. I have used a cap lamp since I started caving
in 1971. I have tried electrics over the years from time to time and
currently own an Apex. I still have yet to find one I trust to last. My
Apex leaks if I put under water and sooner or later it will corrode and
quit working from that or some other reason that I will fail to
understand. I have dropped a cap lamp down a 90 foot pit; it had a minor
ding and I was able to continue using it for many more years and still
have it in working order. The Autolite I am using is probably more than
50 years old. With very low tech maintenance, there is nothing that will
go wrong with it that I cannot fix without tools in the cave. And it
will probably go another 50 years with a reasonable amount of care (which
is more than I can say for me).
Do you think that any of the individual lights in use today will still
useable in 20 years? And if not, what does this say for the likelihood
that they will fail while you are depending on them? How many times have
you been on a trip where an electric light has completely failed? I have
seen it frequently. So far, I have not seen a Stenlight fail, but I have
seen several Apex fail and high number of Petzel products. But
Stenlights, while very bright are also very magnetic and pretty
expensive.
Carbides are still not very good for diving I will grant, but with a
little knowledge, they stand up to long-term immersion quite well. I
will also grant they have real drawbacks on multi-day in cave camps. And
there is a learning curve that appears to be a bit much for some people.
And the USDOT has made it relatively expensive to buy carbide.
However, I no longer encourage new people to use carbide lamps. I do
think that a durable enough LED light for a reasonable price is not far
off. But I think there are some real advantages in having some of us
around (OK, so I am not around you in particular) who still know and use
the old technologies. And most of us don't bring CO2 meters caving.
Philip L. Moss
philipm...@juno.com
PS If any of you know why my emails occasionally look like Chinese
characters when I use the reply function and can tell me how to prevent
the font switch without the simple expedient of never using reply, I
would appreciate the advice off line.
____________________________________________________________
Six Sigma Certification
Villanova Six Sigma Certification 100% Online Program - Free Info.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c14db61d6027a01efm01vuc
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