texascavers Digest 19 Nov 2009 18:01:40 -0000 Issue 889
Topics (messages 12626 through 12635):
Collecting Photos of Ed Alexander
12626 by: Maryanne Moore
Antioch Cave, Austin Tx to be featured on KXAN at 6 PM Wednesday
12627 by: Jules Jenkins
dry (well, sort of) cave in Quinatana Roo
12628 by: Mixon Bill
Government Canyon Karst Project dates
12629 by: Marvin & Lisa
12631 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Havew you been short changed at a Pemex?
12630 by: Preston Forsythe
12634 by: Louise Power
Re: Have you been short changed at a Pemex?
12632 by: Mark Minton
Re: Trouble at PEMEX
12633 by: Carl Kunath
12635 by: Nico Escamilla
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
As you know, there will be a memorial service for Ed Alexander on Sunday,
December 6. I am coordinating a slideshow of photos of Ed for the event.
I'd like to get everyone to contribute some of their favorite shots of Ed.
In order to facilitate the gathering process, I've created a Google gmail
account and a Google Picasa (photo album) account.
If you have digital images you want to share, send them to
edalexphotos.tosh...@picasaweb.com. You can attach multiple photos to one
email. Whatever you put in the subject line of the email becomes the
caption for all attached photos. So, you could easily label 5 or 6 photos
"Cave Trip 2001" or something like that to help organize them. There is
only 1 GB of space available for pictures, so I will monitor it and download
the pictures periodically. I will be out of town for several days next
week, so if the picasa site fills up, just email them directly to
edalexpho...@gmail.com and I'll get them when I return. If you want to look
and see what is on the picasa site or verify that your photos arrived, go to
http://picasaweb.google.com/edalexphotos . Shared pictures will be in the
Drop Box album.
If you have slides or prints/negatives you want to share, I have a scanner
that can be used. You can contact me directly to arrange a time for using
it. If there is enough interest, I could set it up at my office near Mopac
and 2222 next weekend for whoever wants to can come by and use it. If
anyone else has a scanner, they could set it up as well to speed things up.
Also, you could bring a CD or flash drive with pictures on it to the
memorial service and we can add them there.
Maryanne Moore
512-627-5813
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Julie Jenkins <jjenk...@bseacd.org>
Subject: Antioch Cave to be featured on KXAN at 6 PM Wednesday Nov. 18th.
Jim Swift, of KXAN, visited Antioch Cave yesterday. He
said that the story will be aired today on the 6 PM news. He rappelled
into the cave and took some video while crawling down the passage.
Huge thanks to Charley Savvas and Bill Russell for their expertise and
assistance w/getting Jim Swift and his camera man in and out of the cave.
Antioch Cave, owned by the Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer Conservation District
is the largest recharge cave site located in a creek on the Barton Springs
segment of the aquifer. Several cavers over the years have been involved in
mapping and exploration of this cave. Typically the air is not great because
the cave takes on such a huge bedload of organic debris and other types of
debris that there is lots of high CO2 back
further in the cave.
We're very excited that our efforts to put as much good input of water into the
aquifer as is possible. We believe the limiting factor has been the tight
shaft entrance, which Charley has opened up and the ability to keep the debris
from restricting flow.
Again, our thanks to Charley and Wm.
There will be a video link to their website to follow.
jules
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cave-exploration.com/riosecreto/riosecreto.htm -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Rules to live by: Don't, and don't forget to.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
There will be no scheduled weekend in December for the Government Canyon
Karst Project.
The dates scheduled for the first three months of 2010 are:
January 17 (Sunday only)
February 20, 21
March 20, 21
Put these dates on your calendars. Reminders will be sent out several weeks
ahead of time. Contact me, Marvin Miller, with any questions.
830-885-5631 (home)
210-415-5190 (cell)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info, Marvin.
Glad to see the Gov't Canyon Project is back up and running and welcome back to
the Lone Star State!
PROJECT LEADERS -
please be sure to list your projects on the TSA Calendar page
(http://www.cavetexas.org/calendar/index.php), so all interested cavers and
prospective TSA members can see what opportunities are afforded to them to get
underground.
The only projects I have seen listed are the CBSP project weekends. (Good job,
Crash!).
Look for some new projects to be listed early next year.
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: Marvin & Lisa [mailto:mlmil...@gvtc.com]
Sent: Wed 11/18/2009 7:45 PM
To: texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Government Canyon Karst Project dates
Cavers,
There will be no scheduled weekend in December for the Government Canyon Karst
Project.
The dates scheduled for the first three months of 2010 are:
January 17 (Sunday only)
February 20, 21
March 20, 21
Put these dates on your calendars. Reminders will be sent out several weeks
ahead of time. Contact me, Marvin Miller, with any questions.
830-885-5631 (home)
210-415-5190 (cell)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
Here is a story from a Mexico rv forum.
"In my 9 years of coming to Mexico for the winter,I've always been careful to
watch what the attendant does,but today he got me just when I was distracted
for a second.He shut it down and replaced the cap and told me to come inside
for paying.I hesitated and walked back to see the amount and the pumps were
blank.
He took a minute or two waiting for the machine to spit out a receipt,then he
handed it to me and right away I noticed it was for at least $26.00 more than
it should be.I deal with liters at home so I know almost exactly what it
takes,and knew this was wrong, but he didn't back down.He was charging me for
83 liters and the truck only holds 100 and it was just below half when I came
in.
I had no proof to argue the point,so paid and stomped out only to find my gauge
reading 3/4 full.
And now as I sit at the RV park in Hermosillo,I look at that receipt,which by
the way he crumpled up and threw away and I retrieved,and I see that it is
dated for yesterday at 5:17.Not even my receipt.
So be ware you guys coming down Mex 15.Its just a few miles south of Santa
Ana.A big one on the west side.#3811
Can anyone direct me to a site to go after these guys?"
"Send a complaint to this email: satciu...@cgc.pemex.com "
"It is important to always ask for a ticket. With the ticket, you have a much
better chance of winning your case. Just ask for a "comprobante" or "ticket".
If you pay with credit or debit there is no losing, you have all the proof you
want."
Hope this helps someone. This type of problem in Mexico is not as common as it
once was, but it still pays to be alert at the gas station.
Preston in Outer Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Preston,
I know what you mean. Many years ago, I was returning from Oaxaca and only a
few miles south of the border I noticed I was running way low on gas, so I
pulled in at the first station I came to. Big mistake. I did my usual stand by
the truck while it was being filled, but before I knew what was happening, the
guy started letting the gas run out of the tank onto the ground. I yelled at
him to stop, but he and his buddies started laughing. I grabbed the hose out of
his hand and put it back in the pump. I only paid him up to the point where he
started letting it run out on the ground. When he started to argue, I told him
I'd call the policia an let them decide. He finally relented and I left.
Watch what's going on at the pump and at the credit card scanner. I know a
couple of people who had their cards double swiped. They tried to do that to me
on this side of the border in Laredo one time. Fortunately for me, I follow my
card around.
Louise
From: pns_...@bellsouth.net
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:07:33 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Havew you been short changed at a Pemex?
I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
Here is a story from a Mexico rv forum.
"In my 9 years of coming to Mexico for the winter,I've always been careful to
watch what the attendant does,but today he got me just when I was distracted
for a second.He shut it down and replaced the cap and told me to come inside
for paying.I hesitated and walked back to see the amount and the pumps were
blank.
He took a minute or two waiting for the machine to spit out a receipt,then he
handed it to me and right away I noticed it was for at least $26.00 more than
it should be.I deal with liters at home so I know almost exactly what it
takes,and knew this was wrong, but he didn't back down.He was charging me for
83 liters and the truck only holds 100 and it was just below half when I came
in.
I had no proof to argue the point,so paid and stomped out only to find my gauge
reading 3/4 full.
And now as I sit at the RV park in Hermosillo,I look at that receipt,which by
the way he crumpled up and threw away and I retrieved,and I see that it is
dated for yesterday at 5:17.Not even my receipt.
So be ware you guys coming down Mex 15.Its just a few miles south of Santa
Ana.A big one on the west side.#3811
Can anyone direct me to a site to go after these guys?"
"Send a complaint to this email: satciu...@cgc.pemex.com "
"It is important to always ask for a ticket. With the ticket, you have a much
better chance of winning your case. Just ask for a "comprobante" or "ticket".
If you pay with credit or debit there is no losing, you have all the proof you
want."
Hope this helps someone. This type of problem in Mexico is not as common as it
once was, but it still pays to be alert at the gas station.
Preston in Outer Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Preston said:
>I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
A common way they used to get people at Pemex was to not
zero the pump when they start filling your tank. That way you end up
paying for what was already dispensed to the guy before you as well
as your own fuel. That is less a problem now because modern pumps
automatically zero out when they are activated for a new sale, but I
still always check. Another scam when you pay is to claim you gave
them a smaller bill than you did and thus give you less change, for
instance giving you change for a 200 when you gave them a 500. Once
the bill you gave them disappears into their pocket it is difficult
to prove what you gave them. I usually point out the denomination
when I hand it to the clerk and seek acknowledgment. I often use big
bills at Pemex because it is one of the places that can always make
change, unlike tiendas in small towns. Of course you always want to
count your change, because they will sometimes give you less than
you're owed hoping you won't bother to count it. That happens at
toll booths too, where people are in a hurry and roar off before
counting their change.
It is interesting that the guy from the RV forum mentioned
paying for gas with a credit or debit card. He was on Highway 15 in
western Mexico and they may take those cards there, but I almost
never see gas stations in central or eastern Mexico that do. I wish
they did, because that would decrease the amount of cash we need to carry.
Mark Minton
I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
Here is a story from a Mexico rv forum.
"In my 9 years of coming to Mexico for the winter,I've always been
careful to watch what the attendant does,but today he got me just
when I was distracted for a second.He shut it down and replaced the
cap and told me to come inside for paying.I hesitated and walked
back to see the amount and the pumps were blank.
He took a minute or two waiting for the machine to spit out a
receipt,then he handed it to me and right away I noticed it was for
at least $26.00 more than it should be.I deal with liters at home so
I know almost exactly what it takes,and knew this was wrong, but he
didn't back down.He was charging me for 83 liters and the truck only
holds 100 and it was just below half when I came in.
I had no proof to argue the point,so paid and stomped out only to
find my gauge reading 3/4 full.
And now as I sit at the RV park in Hermosillo,I look at that
receipt,which by the way he crumpled up and threw away and I
retrieved,and I see that it is dated for yesterday at 5:17.Not even my receipt.
So be ware you guys coming down Mex 15.Its just a few miles south of
Santa Ana.A big one on the west side.#3811
Can anyone direct me to a site to go after these guys?"
"Send a complaint to this email: satciu...@cgc.pemex.com "
"It is important to always ask for a ticket. With the ticket, you
have a much better chance of winning your case. Just ask for a
"comprobante" or "ticket". If you pay with credit or debit there is
no losing, you have all the proof you want."
Hope this helps someone. This type of problem in Mexico is not as
common as it once was, but it still pays to be alert at the gas station.
Preston in Outer Browder, KY
You may reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark's points and advice are well stated. It's easy to be distracted,
especially at the busier places where the activity can be frantic and the noise
can be deafening. Now add to that the little urchins selling Chiclets and
wiping your windshield with an oily rag. I was scammed at a PEMEX in
Chihuahua, Chihuahua when I failed to certify that the pump was zeroed before
unlocking my gas cap to allow them to begin fueling. When the total was
announced, I complained and pointed out that they had "delivered" about double
my maximum capacity but it fell on deaf ears. It's a great scam and when it
happens, you've been had.
As for paying the bill, you are certainly vulnerable when you hand over a large
bill -- especially when the attendant heads for the office to make change. I
think it's better to have close to the exact change available. Plan ahead.
===Carl Kunath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Minton
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Have you been short changed at a Pemex?
Preston said:
>I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
A common way they used to get people at Pemex was to not
zero the pump when they start filling your tank. That way you end up
paying for what was already dispensed to the guy before you as well
as your own fuel. That is less a problem now because modern pumps
automatically zero out when they are activated for a new sale, but I
still always check. Another scam when you pay is to claim you gave
them a smaller bill than you did and thus give you less change, for
instance giving you change for a 200 when you gave them a 500. Once
the bill you gave them disappears into their pocket it is difficult
to prove what you gave them. I usually point out the denomination
when I hand it to the clerk and seek acknowledgment. I often use big
bills at Pemex because it is one of the places that can always make
change, unlike tiendas in small towns. Of course you always want to
count your change, because they will sometimes give you less than
you're owed hoping you won't bother to count it. That happens at
toll booths too, where people are in a hurry and roar off before
counting their change.
It is interesting that the guy from the RV forum mentioned
paying for gas with a credit or debit card. He was on Highway 15 in
western Mexico and they may take those cards there, but I almost
never see gas stations in central or eastern Mexico that do. I wish
they did, because that would decrease the amount of cash we need to carry.
Mark Minton
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
> "In my 9 years of coming to Mexico for the winter,I've always been
> careful to watch what the attendant does,but today he got me just
> when I was distracted for a second.
>.... it was for
>at least $26.00 more than it should be.I deal with liters at home so
>I know almost exactly what it takes,and knew this was wrong, but he
>didn't back down.He was charging me for 83 liters and the truck only
>holds 100 and it was just below half when I came in.
>>
>Hope this helps someone. This type of problem in Mexico is not as
>common as it once was, but it still pays to be alert at the gas station.
>
>Preston in Outer Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Almost every single PEMEX station will steal from you, some more than others
because the profit margin per liter is really small so the pumps actually
pump slightly less than what its shown on the display, again some do it more
so than others. Only one time have I been to a shameless stealer station.. I
have a 51 liter fuel tank in my car I asked them to fill it up and they did
zero the pump and all, when I turned again to look at the pump cause it was
taking longer than usual it was already at 60 liters.. and I still had only
slightly less than 1/4 of a tank when I stopped to fill up, I asked to speak
with the manager and they refused so I did the next logical thing and called
PROFECO (consumer protection comission) two days later that station was on
the news, PROFECO had closed them for tweaking their pumps to pump way less
than what the screen showed.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Carl Kunath <carl.kun...@suddenlink.net>wrote:
> Mark's points and advice are well stated. It's easy to be distracted,
> especially at the busier places where the activity can be frantic and the
> noise can be deafening. Now add to that the little urchins selling Chiclets
> and wiping your windshield with an oily rag. I was scammed at a PEMEX in
> Chihuahua, Chihuahua when I failed to certify that the pump was zeroed
> before unlocking my gas cap to allow them to begin fueling. When the total
> was announced, I complained and pointed out that they had "delivered" about
> double my maximum capacity but it fell on deaf ears. It's a great scam and
> when it happens, you've been had.
>
> As for paying the bill, you are certainly vulnerable when you hand over a
> large bill -- especially when the attendant heads for the office to make
> change. I think it's better to have close to the exact change available.
> Plan ahead.
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>
> *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:04 AM
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Re: Have you been short changed at a Pemex?
>
> Preston said:
>
> >I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
>
> A common way they used to get people at Pemex was to not
> zero the pump when they start filling your tank. That way you end up
> paying for what was already dispensed to the guy before you as well
> as your own fuel. That is less a problem now because modern pumps
> automatically zero out when they are activated for a new sale, but I
> still always check. Another scam when you pay is to claim you gave
> them a smaller bill than you did and thus give you less change, for
> instance giving you change for a 200 when you gave them a 500. Once
> the bill you gave them disappears into their pocket it is difficult
> to prove what you gave them. I usually point out the denomination
> when I hand it to the clerk and seek acknowledgment. I often use big
> bills at Pemex because it is one of the places that can always make
> change, unlike tiendas in small towns. Of course you always want to
> count your change, because they will sometimes give you less than
> you're owed hoping you won't bother to count it. That happens at
> toll booths too, where people are in a hurry and roar off before
> counting their change.
>
> It is interesting that the guy from the RV forum mentioned
> paying for gas with a credit or debit card. He was on Highway 15 in
> western Mexico and they may take those cards there, but I almost
> never see gas stations in central or eastern Mexico that do. I wish
> they did, because that would decrease the amount of cash we need to carry.
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ------------------------------
>
> >I have been ripped off a time or two at Pemex.
>
> > "In my 9 years of coming to Mexico for the winter,I've always been
> > careful to watch what the attendant does,but today he got me just
> > when I was distracted for a second.
>
> >.... it was for
> >at least $26.00 more than it should be.I deal with liters at home so
> >I know almost exactly what it takes,and knew this was wrong, but he
> >didn't back down.He was charging me for 83 liters and the truck only
> >holds 100 and it was just below half when I came in.
> >>
> >Hope this helps someone. This type of problem in Mexico is not as
> >common as it once was, but it still pays to be alert at the gas station.
> >
> >Preston in Outer Browder, KY
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
