texascavers Digest 22 May 2009 23:10:03 -0000 Issue 762 Topics (messages 10740 through 10758):
Re: Nat Geo article
10740 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
10744 by: Mixon Bill
10745 by: Geary Schindel
10746 by: Diana Tomchick
10748 by: Geary Schindel
[texascavers] caving Libya
10741 by: Simon Newton
10749 by: Mixon Bill
Re: 15th ICS - field trip news and only 2 months!
10742 by: Nico Escamilla
large cave passage
10743 by: Mixon Bill
Re: The Second Quarter 2009 TEXAS CAVER is now online!
10747 by: Minton, Mark
10752 by: George-Paul Richmann
10755 by: Fritz Holt
Space Bat
10750 by: Minton, Mark
10751 by: Fritz Holt
Speleofest
10753 by: David
More WNS Support
10754 by: Minton, Mark
Re: Short notice, interesting project
10756 by: wesley s
10757 by: Heather Tucek
Dog Emergency OT! OT! OT!
10758 by: Gill Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---Here, here! Mark A. ________________________________ From: dirt...@comcast.net [mailto:dirt...@comcast.net] Sent: Wed 5/20/2009 12:12 PM To: Mixon Bill; Cave Texas; TAG Net Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Nat Geo article We need young cavers to join us in our community. DirtDoc "He has explored more than 50 miles of virgin passage, most of it on his hands and knees." Oh, please. If that author ever gets near a keyboard again, somebody spare us by breaking his fingers. Why is National Geographic Magazine written for children? And why do they always hire Steven Alvarez to take photos for their cave articles? His photos are good, but seldom exceptional by NSS salon standards, and the world is awash with similar photos that people would no doubt be honored to let NGS publish free. I'll buy the issue, of course, when it hits the stands. Sigh. -- Mixon --------------------------------------------- He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton ---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message --- It wasn't the "50 miles of virgin cave" for Baggy I was questioning, but the "mostly on his hands and knees," as an example of the overly vivid and exaggerated writing in that article. Yes, it will be nice if that article gains us some good new cavers, but it would be nice if they were older than the eighth grade. -- Mixon---------------------------------------------He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message ---Well, I couldn't agree with you more on the writing style but then again, that is consistent with NG. All NG articles have a hook, so to speak and are generally not very deep in content. However, I'm not quite sure I would lay all the blame on the writer, I understand that NG has an editor for every point within the Gregg Reference Manual for writing and well as their own style manual. I know one person who wrote a 10 page article and he said that when it was all done, he had over 1,000 emails which amounted to almost 10 emails per assistant editor. He might have been exaggerating but I thought he said they had one for capitalization, one for comas, one for periods, one for semicolons, one for photo captions, fact checkers, etc. Enough to drive you crazy. Geary -----Original Message----- From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:04 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Nat Geo article It wasn't the "50 miles of virgin cave" for Baggy I was questioning, but the "mostly on his hands and knees," as an example of the overly vivid and exaggerated writing in that article. Yes, it will be nice if that article gains us some good new cavers, but it would be nice if they were older than the eighth grade. -- Mixon --------------------------------------------- He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton ---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message ---On May 20, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Geary Schindel wrote:However, I'm not quite sure I would lay all the blame on the writer, I understand that NG has an editor for every point within the Gregg Reference Manual for writing and well as their own style manual... ..He might have been exaggerating but I thought he said they had one for capitalization, one for comas,So they have an editor for head injuries, too?The reason they have so many editors is because they have a very large and very picky readership. It's a group of people who don't hesitate to write to the editors to complain about any tiny errors that they may find, including ones as mundane as simple spelling errors.Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax)
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--- Begin Message ---Ouch. LOL, yeah, maybe I could use one of them also. Thanks, Geary -----Original Message----- From: Diana Tomchick [mailto:diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:15 PM To: Geary Schindel Cc: Mixon Bill; Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Nat Geo article On May 20, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Geary Schindel wrote: > > However, I'm not quite sure I would lay all the blame on the writer, I > understand that NG has an editor for every point within the Gregg > Reference Manual for writing and well as their own style manual... > ..He might have been exaggerating but I thought he said > they had one for capitalization, one for comas, So they have an editor for head injuries, too? The reason they have so many editors is because they have a very large and very picky readership. It's a group of people who don't hesitate to write to the editors to complain about any tiny errors that they may find, including ones as mundane as simple spelling errors. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message ---I'm heading to Libya to work for a couple weeks during June. Just wondering if anyone here has caver connections in Libya or might know people who have caved in Libya. I'll likely be back later in the fall for a longer trip as well and would like to do some caving if possible. My understanding is that Libya has a huge karst zone in the northeast (Al Jabal al Akhdar near Benghazi), and a smaller area near Tripoli. I have heard there are a lot of unexplored caves in Libya. Thanks, Simon
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--- Begin Message --- Simon (and I'm sending also to the Texas Cavers list in order to encourage people to take more advantage of my library by showing the sorts of resources available there) --Re you question about caves in Libya: I have a book "Bir al Ghanam Karst Study Project, Final Report 1981" about an extensive area of gypsum karst in Libya. It was written by a Hungarian caver, Attila Kósa. It was reformatted, apparently complete, as files on a CD in 2001, with the title "The Bir al Ghanam Karst and Caves." There are many references to it on the Web, but apparently not the book itself. I will lend you the CD if you send me your mailing address. (Or I could print the thing and mail it to you, but that would cost six or eight bucks.)The "Atlas of the Great Caves and Karst of Africa," published in Berlin (http://www.speleo-berlin.de/gb_publikationen.php), has some 12 pages on Libya. You could order the relevant one of the three volumes (BHB #29) for $20 postpaid at that Web site, but it doesn't give a clue about how to pay for it. I'll send a photocopy of the Libya pages to you if you want me to.I could probably find some miscellaneous articles about Libya with some searching through a shelf of bibliographies, but that ought to be enough to keep you busy for awhile -- Bill Mixon---------------------------------------------He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message ---Why was caving with the Maya cancelled? Nico On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Mixon Bill <bmixon...@austin.rr.com>wrote: > Forwarded by Mixon: > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: ICS 2009 eList <secret...@ics2009.us> > Date: May 20, 2009 11:13:57 AM CDT > To: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > Subject: 15th ICS - field trip news and only 2 months! > > Dear Friends, > > Last month we sadly announced that we needed to cancel and re-examine all > of the trips for the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) because > of White Nose Syndrome (WNS), the mysterious condition that has recently > killed about a half millions bats in the U.S. We hoped to send you news > about the trips a couple of weeks ago, but arranging some of the details was > more complicated than expected. Here is the final news on the Pre and > Post-ICS trips: > > Confirmed Trips, Full > 01: Coast-to-Coast Eastern Segment > 02: Coast-to-Coast Western Segment > 85: Cenote Karst of the Yucatan Peninsula > 88: Giant Caves of Northern Mexico > > Confirmed Trips, Space Available* > 03: Texas Bat Caves > 31: Mammoth Cave, Kentucky > 41: Black Hills, South Dakota > 51: Science in Southeastern New Mexico > 53: Caving in the Guadalupe Mountains (post-Congress) > 55: Lilburn Cave, California (only 2 slots still open!) > 71: Cave Management in New York > 86: Deep Pits of Mexico > * The numbers of seats available for some trips in may be different from > the total trip size originally announced > > Canceled > 04: Endangered Species, Endangered Caves > 33: Cumberland Plateau (TAG) > 34: Tectonic Pseudokarst of North Carolina > 37: Caves and Karst of Virginia > 52: Caving in the Guadalupe Mountains (pre-Congress) > 56: Cave the Sierra Nevada, California > 58: Big Island Hawaii > 59: Southeast Alaska > 81: Caving with the Maya > 82: Caves of the Bahamas > > I encourage you to register for the available trips soon before they fill. > Some of the trips may experience minor changes because of WNS. If you are > concerned, please contact the trip leaders as listed on our website at > www.ics2009.us. As reminder, to do our best to prevent the spread of WNS > in the US and to other countries, all caving equipment and clothing will > need to be decontaminated after each caving trip. The decontamination > procedures will be announced and posted on our website within 2 weeks. > > Today is exactly 2 months until the 15th ICS begins. Today our > pre-registration exceeded the total number of people who attended the 8th > ICS, the previous ICS held in the US in 1981. I look forward to seeing many > more registrations in the coming weeks. Remember, the price of registration > increases on June 1st so register now and register for the great field trips > that will be held before the ICS, after the ICS, and on Wednesday during the > ICS. > > George > > George Veni, Ph.D. > Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology > Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology > Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute > > ---- > You have received this message because you are subscribed to the 2009 ICS > eList. To unsubscribe, please visit: > http://ics2009mail.nfshost.com/pommo/user/ > > > --------------------------------------------- > He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest > benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton > ---------------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
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--- Begin Message --- It isn't obvious that the new passage in Vietnam is larger in average cross-section than Deer Cave in Sarawak. The "tight spot" in Deer Cave is about 100 meters high and wide, which the articles claim is the size of that passage. But Deer Cave is nowhere near 5 km long. -- Mixon---------------------------------------------He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message ---Mark, >Just in time for your three day weekend, the second quarter version of The >TEXAS CAVER has been posted to the Members Area by our very own near and dear >web extraordinaire, Butch Fralia. Got it; thanks! Beautiful! I am puzzled by the size of the file, though. When I first went to the TSA web site to download the issue, it said it was 64.3 MB. Later (now) it says it is 38.6 MB. But in fact it is only 3.7 MB. Maybe 38.6 is just a decimal error, but 3.7 MB seems awfully small for such a large issue, complete with color, especially given that some of the previous issues really are in the 10 - 30 MB range. Did you post a lower resolution version? Nevertheless it looks mighty good! I actually miss getting it in hard copy. :-( Mark Minton P.S. The page numbering is off by 2 in the table of contents.
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--- Begin Message ---Once everyone is on the website; we can re-release the hard copy version and call it TEXAS CAVER Classic :-) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Minton, Mark <mmin...@nmhu.edu> wrote: > Mark, > >>Just in time for your three day weekend, the second quarter version of The >> TEXAS CAVER has been posted to the Members Area by our very own near and >> dear web extraordinaire, Butch Fralia. > > Got it; thanks! Beautiful! I am puzzled by the size of the file, > though. When I first went to the TSA web site to download the issue, it > said it was 64.3 MB. Later (now) it says it is 38.6 MB. But in fact it is > only 3.7 MB. Maybe 38.6 is just a decimal error, but 3.7 MB seems awfully > small for such a large issue, complete with color, especially given that > some of the previous issues really are in the 10 - 30 MB range. Did you > post a lower resolution version? Nevertheless it looks mighty good! I > actually miss getting it in hard copy. :-( > > Mark Minton > > P.S. The page numbering is off by 2 in the table of contents. -- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 gprichm...@gmail.com
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--- Begin Message ---This is certainly not a criticism as I found this issue most interesting and the quality of the writing and photography on the Mexico trips was excellent. It almost seems that Texas cavers are doing more of it in Mexico than in Texas. This is understandable based on the size and quality of the caves in Mexico. It was a nostalgic sadness for me to read of the passing of Bart Crisman. While I only knew of him in the mid 50's, The Crisman Brothers were well known adventurous cavers in early Texas caving circles. I echo Carl's words, we are diminished. George-Paul, why not just Tex-Mex Caver?:) Fritz -----Original Message----- From: George-Paul Richmann [mailto:gprichm...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:16 PM To: Minton, Mark Cc: mark.al...@l-3com.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: The Second Quarter 2009 TEXAS CAVER is now online! Once everyone is on the website; we can re-release the hard copy version and call it TEXAS CAVER Classic :-) On
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--- Begin Message ---A bat hitched a ride on the space shuttle last March. I didn't see this posted on Texascavers, but I was out of email contact when it happened. Sorry if this is a repeat. <http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts119/launchbat.html> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29754578/?GT1=43001> <http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7107251> There are also several YouTube videos. Search for Space Bat. Mark Minton
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--- Begin Message ---The Chronicle, I believe, had a couple of photos. One photo showed a tiny black speck clinging to the exterior surface. Fritz ________________________________ From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:02 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Space Bat A bat hitched a ride on the space shuttle last March. I didn't see this posted on Texascavers, but I was out of email contact when it happened. Sorry if this is a repeat. <http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts119/launchbat.html> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29754578/?GT1=43001> <http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7107251> There are also several YouTube videos. Search for Space Bat. Mark Minton
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--- Begin Message ---Are any Texas cavers going to SpeleoFest ? http://louisville.caves.org/Speleofest.html I have been wanting to go for years, but still haven't made one. I can't make this one either, but I was curious if anybody was going. I presume SpeleoFest is very similar to TCR, except the caves are wet and cold compared with the dry hot caves in west Texas. David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County
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But much more needs doing, and bats are dying every day. Federal and state agencies must have more dollars to fund research, coordination, and management to understand, fight, and hopefully overcome white-nose syndrome so endangered bats don't die out forever.
Learn details in our press release <http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2009/bats-05-20-2009.html>, where you can also read the letter, and take action <http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2167/t/5243/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27148> yourself before the end of the month.
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--- Begin Message ---> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:49:20 -0700 > From: b...@zaraenvironmental.com > Subject: Short notice, interesting project > To: mudmal...@hotmail.com > > > Wes- > This has just come across my plate. I've corresponded with Cameron for a few > years, and the cave part of her project finally came together. I've put a > blurb below. If it strikes your fancy or anyone you know comes to mind (gotta > have a sketcher!!), great, if not, could you put it on Cave Tex? > Bev > _____________________________ > > Short notice, interesting project: Cameron McNeil is looking for 2 > experienced surveyors to survey and produce a map of a cave in the Copan area > of Honduras this June. Well, that’s coming right up! She’s already down > there, and will be through June 26. The survey could probably be completed in > a week, plus travel time could be 1 ½ weeks or so. > Travel, room and board will likely be covered, a distinct bonus. The cavers > will be responsible for surveying the cave and producing a useful map in a > timely fashion (ie, within a couple of weeks of getting home, if not while in > Honduras). Its an archeology project, so of course the location and contents > of the cave require discretion. Copan is a fairly public site, where > archeologists are mixed right in with the town and tourists, so its not like > a private caver camp – ie, don’t act like a yahoo, respect local residents, > etc. > > If you’ve got the mapping skills and the time, this could be a really cool > experience. Copan is just south of the border with Guatemala, and it’s a > super cool archeology site, by far the best Honduras has to offer. > > Contact her at: camero...@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009
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--- Begin Message ---I'm not a cave surveyor, but I've been to Copan, and it's a beautiful place! I'll be down in Honduras from June 22-July 5, so I know it's a great time of year to go! 2009/5/22 wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com> > > > > Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:49:20 -0700 > > From: b...@zaraenvironmental.com > > Subject: Short notice, interesting project > > To: mudmal...@hotmail.com > > > > > > Wes- > > This has just come across my plate. I've corresponded with Cameron for a > few years, and the cave part of her project finally came together. I've put > a blurb below. If it strikes your fancy or anyone you know comes to mind > (gotta have a sketcher!!), great, if not, could you put it on Cave Tex? > > Bev > > _____________________________ > > > > Short notice, interesting project: Cameron McNeil is looking for 2 > experienced surveyors to survey and produce a map of a cave in the Copan > area of Honduras this June. Well, that's coming right up! She's already down > there, and will be through June 26. The survey could probably be completed > in a week, plus travel time could be 1 1/2 weeks or so. > > Travel, room and board will likely be covered, a distinct bonus. The > cavers will be responsible for surveying the cave and producing a useful map > in a timely fashion (ie, within a couple of weeks of getting home, if not > while in Honduras). Its an archeology project, so of course the location and > contents of the cave require discretion. Copan is a fairly public site, > where archeologists are mixed right in with the town and tourists, so its > not like a private caver camp - ie, don't act like a yahoo, respect local > residents, etc. > > > > If you've got the mapping skills and the time, this could be a really > cool experience. Copan is just south of the border with Guatemala, and it's > a super cool archeology site, by far the best Honduras has to offer. > > > > Contact her at: camero...@yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail(R) goes with you. Get it on your BlackBerry or > iPhone.<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009> > -- Go find out! -Heather Tuček UT Grotto (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org
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--- Begin Message --- Felicia Vreeland is moving out of her house and badly needs someplace to leave 2 or 3 dogs for a couple of weeks so they don't wind up in the pound. Her email's not working but if you have the space and the inclination please give her a call. It would help set her mind at ease.330-272-5671 Many thanks, --Ediger
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