[Therion] map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset

[Bruce Mutton]

Thanks for the suggestion Marco.

I think what you suggest is what I was already doing, however I decided to try 
yet another level of hierarchical separation, but it also did not work.

However I think the effect you are pointing me to is what is in-play here 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/mapconnectors?s[]=offset 
 

I’ll tinker with it some more…  For me it is really only a debug process while 
I am drawing, so it is best if it soes not require special structures to 
activate and deactivate.

 

Bruce

 

 

From: Therion  On Behalf Of Marco Corvi
Sent: Monday, 16 November 2020 09:07
To: therion@speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] : map-connection does not display if map is both offset 
and not offset

 

@bruce

 

that was a nice remark.

 

i think that if you put scrap1 in map1 and scrap2 in map2, and then combine in 
a final map containing

   map1

   map2 […] above/below

   map2

 

and select the final map, then you get scrap1 and scrap2 in place,

and also scrap2 offseted and the map-connection line

 

marco

 


I just discovered some behaviour that I did not expect.

When a scrap has a point map-connection, any exports of that scrap have a
dotted line from the 'true' location of the point map-location to the
'offset' location.  Right?

These two examples show what is expected.  The first with a single copy of
an offset map, and the second with two offset copies of the map.

However, if there is also a copy of the map that is not offset, then all of
the map-connection points are hidden.  I tried using the -visibility on
option for the point map-connection, that that had no effect.

The image below shows an example of this behaviour.



Although it is not very often that I want to show a map both in its proper
location and offset, it seems to me that one should be able to do it and
also have the map-connection points display properly for the offset maps.

Is this a bug perhaps?



Bruce

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Re: [Therion] : map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset

[Marco Corvi]

@bruce

that was a nice remark.

i think that if you put scrap1 in map1 and scrap2 in map2, and then combine
in a final map containing
   map1
   map2 […] above/below
   map2

and select the final map, then you get scrap1 and scrap2 in place,
and also scrap2 offseted and the map-connection line

marco


> I just discovered some behaviour that I did not expect.
>
> When a scrap has a point map-connection, any exports of that scrap have a
> dotted line from the 'true' location of the point map-location to the
> 'offset' location.  Right?
>
> These two examples show what is expected.  The first with a single copy of
> an offset map, and the second with two offset copies of the map.
>
> However, if there is also a copy of the map that is not offset, then all of
> the map-connection points are hidden.  I tried using the -visibility on
> option for the point map-connection, that that had no effect.
>
> The image below shows an example of this behaviour.
>
>
>
> Although it is not very often that I want to show a map both in its proper
> location and offset, it seems to me that one should be able to do it and
> also have the map-connection points display properly for the offset maps.
>
> Is this a bug perhaps?
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
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Re: [Therion] Colorizing sections of centerline

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

> But let's assume you created a single scrap in each survey, with nothing
> in it, just a single survey station so it has a location. You create a
> map that includes that scrap, and then includes the survey itself (to
> render the centreline) - you may need to experiment to see which order
> Therion will render them. Now when you render that survey, I suspect
> that the current_scrap variable and ATTR__scrap variable will get
> created. You can use metapost to look for it, and change the colour.

Just to point out that this works.

survey whatever
scrap emptyscrap
point 0 0 station -name 1@somesurvey
endscrap
map emptymap -projection plan
emptyscrap
endmap
map outermap -projection plan
emptymap
somesurvey
endmap
survey somesurvey
centreline
... data goes here ...

Render the "outermap". Now the MetaPost output contains this:
current_scrap := "emptyscrap@whatever";
ATTR__scrap := "emptyscrap";
And then a whole load of centreline stuff.

  code metapost
def l_survey_cave (expr P) =
  T:=identity;
  pickup PenC;
  if known current_scrap:
if current_scrap = "emptyscrap@whatever":
  thdraw P withcolor (1,0.5,0.5);
else:
  thdraw P;
fi;
  else:
thdraw P;
  fi;
enddef;
  endcode

You would need to add maps like that to each major survey section that
you want to colour, as well as the first section that you do not want to
colour, because it will keep applying that colour until it encounters
another scrap.

Not how you want to leave it when you are done, but useful for
debugging, perhaps.
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Re: [Therion] Colorizing sections of centerline

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

> is there a way to change the color of different sections of the centerline?

Sort-of.

https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#centreline_that_is_only_visible_when_not_in_a_scrap

So what you need is a way to detect your different centrelines. If they
are fake centrelines ("line survey") in scraps, you can actually set
"-attr somename somevalue" and then look for the corresponding
ATTR_somename in your metapost. Like this:
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#p-hangers_that_face_the_right_way_and_other_anchor_designs

But automatically generated centrelines have fewer options, since there
are fewer variables to look for. I use this in one place to colour the
splays and centreline differently:

  code metapost
def l_survey_cave (expr P) =
  T:=identity;
  pickup PenC;
  if ATTR__shotflag_splay:
thdraw P withcolor (1,0.5,0.5);
  else:
thdraw P;
  fi;
enddef;
  endcode

You could look for ATTR__scrap instead, if scraps were involved...
Or current_scrap := "scrap@section";

I don't think it creates a variable like that for automatically
generated scraps so that you can identify the survey though.

Use the -d option to get the data.mp and look through the stuff at the
end to see if there is a useful variable you can look for.

I suspect that you won't find a useful variable.
But let's assume you created a single scrap in each survey, with nothing
in it, just a single survey station so it has a location. You create a
map that includes that scrap, and then includes the survey itself (to
render the centreline) - you may need to experiment to see which order
Therion will render them. Now when you render that survey, I suspect
that the current_scrap variable and ATTR__scrap variable will get
created. You can use metapost to look for it, and change the colour.

Not a complete idea, and definitely not as easy as you might have hoped,
but it should be possible to make it work.

Maybe someone else can get creative with this idea...

Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Colorizing sections of centerline

[Benedikt Hallinger]

No idea, but i usually just use the generated .3d file and aven at this stage.
Aven can also generate screenshots for printing, and can color the centerline 
based on various metrics.

> Am 15.11.2020 um 12:48 schrieb Alvaro Aguilera :
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> is there a way to change the color of different sections of the centerline?
> 
> I'm at the stickmap-stage of the survey and it would be really helpful to put 
> some colors to it.
> 
> Regards
> Alvaro
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[Therion] Colorizing sections of centerline

[Alvaro Aguilera]

Hello everyone,

is there a way to change the color of different sections of the centerline?

I'm at the stickmap-stage of the survey and it would be really helpful 
to put some colors to it.


Regards
Alvaro
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Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage

[alastair gott]

HI Beni and Ben,

I have applied those fixes, it's looking much better now i've applied the 
following to the mine level and added the points back in.
"centreline
grade UISv1_5
sd position 1 m
sd x 1 m
sd y 1 m"

I have also changed the survey grade of some of the loop closure passages to be 
grade UISv1_3, which has helped loosen them up a little. I've asked the person 
i'm helping whether we can apply the grade 3 fix to some more passages, but I 
think we'll have to choose wisely which we alter with this fix.

But I guess therion/survex is already applying this fix anyway, so it would be 
better for us to choose where it tightens and loosens the loop closer.

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll try and let you know how it goes.


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger 

Sent: 15 November 2020 08:09
To: List for Therion users 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed 
passage

Another option would be to get the coordinates of the linking mine station and 
fixing it, and just giving that station a „perfect“ Standards deviation (isn’t 
that default if not given?)

Am 14.11.2020 um 21:29 schrieb Ben Cooper :


Hi Alistair
I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that you 
have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level needs 
to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to set the 
SD for the level to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave to be 
quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go to the 
survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less distorted.
Best regards
Ben


Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott  wrote:


HI Therion people,

I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really straight 
mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline data for (but 
no sketches to show where the points are).

When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a kink 
in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown survey 
points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points at the 
beginning and end of the level.

I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have 
connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one entrance 
coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the entrances in, the 
model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's statisical wizardry.

Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to 
the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected.

If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: 
http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/

This is what I get:




the config for the one entrance coordinate is here:
http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc

and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level:

select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine
select oakden_level.speedwell_mine

This is what I want:





If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this:



Rather than this:



Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only 
increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are 
three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) 
which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing for 
clarity).


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.
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Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage

[Benedikt Hallinger]

Another option would be to get the coordinates of the linking mine station and 
fixing it, and just giving that station a „perfect“ Standards deviation (isn’t 
that default if not given?)

> Am 14.11.2020 um 21:29 schrieb Ben Cooper :
> 
> 
> Hi Alistair
> I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that 
> you have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level 
> needs to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to 
> set the SD for the level to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave 
> to be quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go 
> to the survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less 
> distorted. 
> Best regards 
> Ben
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> HI Therion people,
>> 
>> I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really 
>> straight mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline 
>> data for (but no sketches to show where the points are).
>> 
>> When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a 
>> kink in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown 
>> survey points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points 
>> at the beginning and end of the level.
>> 
>> I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have 
>> connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one 
>> entrance coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the 
>> entrances in, the model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's 
>> statisical wizardry.
>> 
>> Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) 
>> to the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected.
>> 
>> If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: 
>> http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/
>> 
>> This is what I get:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> the config for the one entrance coordinate is here: 
>> http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc
>> 
>> and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level:
>> select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine
>> select oakden_level.speedwell_mine
>> This is what I want:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rather than this:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only 
>> increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are 
>> three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) 
>> which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing 
>> for clarity).
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Alastair Gott.
>> 
>> alastairg...@hotmail.com,
>> M: 07931779380.
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