[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Martin Sluka]

I may do it directly, only to add units definition in Therion.

Compass data are very small subset of Therion’s. .dat file of Compass needs 
only to add survey, team, date, declination, … and centerline at the 
beginning and endcenterline, endsurvey at the end.  And add data normal at 
beginning od data definition line and probably ignoreall at the end of data 
definition line.
If you are able to convert Compass to Survex, there should be no any problem to 
add conversion from .dat file to .th file.

m.s.


> 23. 2. 2015 v 13:38, Footleg :
> 
> If you are genuinely processing Compass data which was originally measured in 
> feet and inches, then use that format in your Therion data files and just 
> tell Therion which units your data is in. If however you are working with 
> data that was stored in Compass but originally surveying in metric, then you 
> can use my cave converter program to convert Compass data to Survex data. Not 
> quite Therion format, but very close and you can cut and paste the numbers 
> from the Survex file into Therion files. This will convert the data back to 
> metric from the imperial units saved in a Compass file.
> 
> http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/ 
> 
> 
> Footleg
> 
> On 17 February 2015 at 14:50, Martin Sluka  > wrote:
> 
> > 17. 2. 2015 v 13:34, Graham Mullan  > >:
> >
> > One always has to remember, however, that Compass natively stores all linear
> > measurements in feet and decimal feet, not in metres. This is the case 
> > however the
> > data is inputted. I have accidentally ended up with some alarmingly long 
> > caves before
> > remembering this!
> 
> Therion may too. :)
> 
> m.s.
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk 
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion 
> 
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Footleg]

If you are genuinely processing Compass data which was originally measured
in feet and inches, then use that format in your Therion data files and
just tell Therion which units your data is in. If however you are working
with data that was stored in Compass but originally surveying in metric,
then you can use my cave converter program to convert Compass data to
Survex data. Not quite Therion format, but very close and you can cut and
paste the numbers from the Survex file into Therion files. This will
convert the data back to metric from the imperial units saved in a Compass
file.

http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/

Footleg

On 17 February 2015 at 14:50, Martin Sluka  wrote:

>
> > 17. 2. 2015 v 13:34, Graham Mullan :
> >
> > One always has to remember, however, that Compass natively stores all
> linear
> > measurements in feet and decimal feet, not in metres. This is the case
> however the
> > data is inputted. I have accidentally ended up with some alarmingly long
> caves before
> > remembering this!
>
> Therion may too. :)
>
> m.s.
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Bruce]

Steven



I have done this a couple of times, although I have always first created a
pseudo survey by making a very (very) crude centerline based on the original
plan and elevation drawings (or plan and estimated altitudes) using a scale
rule and pencil.

I measure overall x and y coords of the pseudo stations (only about 10 or 20
for an entire cave) and use a spreadsheet to calculate delta x and delta y
values for each pseudo leg to enter thus.



   declination 21 deg # is effective with cartesian co-ords, tick

   flags duplicate #prevents length accumulation

   flags approximate



   data cartesian from to northing easting altitude

   7  7a  90  -99  4.5

   7a 9   97 -9 4.5

   9 10   31 -22 0



I then draw a collection of scraps attached to this centerline, and THEN fix
any entrances with known gps coordinates.



Ie Similar to what you have done, but there is a crude centerline that
allows model outputs to be generated as well as map outputs.



Now, whenever we do some modern survey deep in the cave, there is generally
a pseudo station somewhere nearby to connect to.  Of course it will be not
quite in the right place, so we just add another differential pseudo leg
between the closest pseudo station and the estimated position of our new
modern survey.



Some related information in this link that seems closer to what you have
done (but not what I have followed
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/faq?s[]=cartesian#how_to_add_old_lost
_data_survey_to_some_new_data
<http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/faq?s%5b%5d=cartesian#how_to_add_old
_lost_data_survey_to_some_new_data>  



Not sure if the above will be that helpful, given you have progressed as far
as you have, but hopefully give you some ideas.



Bruce



  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Steven Tucker
Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 7:15 p.m.
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: [Therion] Joining old and new surveys



Hi,

I have an old survey from the 80s and I have new sections that I want to add
with Therion. The old survey has no centerline data. 

I have redrawn the old survey in a th2 file and allocated 3 points which
correspond to 3 different entrances. In the th file I have given coordinates
to all 3 of those points. This works perfectly. 

I am struggling to connect the new section with this old section. The new
section starts in a deep section of the cave and is far away from any of my
currently defined points. 

What is the easiest way to connect the new and old sections?

Thanks,

Steven

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150217/5fdd326f/attachment.html>

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Martin Sluka]

> 17. 2. 2015 v 13:34, Graham Mullan :
> 
> One always has to remember, however, that Compass natively stores all linear
> measurements in feet and decimal feet, not in metres. This is the case 
> however the
> data is inputted. I have accidentally ended up with some alarmingly long 
> caves before
> remembering this!

Therion may too. :)

m.s.

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Graham Mullan]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:12:00 +0100
Martin Sluka wrote

>It is really a nice piece of software. I use http://winebottler.kronenberg.org 
>to
use it on Mac. Maybe for Linux there is something similar.

Yes it is, very easy to use in most cases.

>As I checked, Compass .dat file is small subset of Therion?s survey and 
>centerline
structure. Very easy to convert it in a plain text editor.

One always has to remember, however, that Compass natively stores all linear
measurements in feet and decimal feet, not in metres. This is the case however 
the
data is inputted. I have accidentally ended up with some alarmingly long caves 
before
remembering this!

Graham

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Martin Sluka]

> 17. 2. 2015 v 8:50, Graham Mullan :
> 
> Digitise the old survey. I have successfully used Larry Fish's "Map to Dat" 
> utility
> from "Compass" to do this, though you then have the irritation of converting 
> Compass
> data to Therion (not difficult, just irritating). 

It is really a nice piece of software. I use http://winebottler.kronenberg.org 
to use it on Mac. Maybe for Linux there is something similar.

As I checked, Compass .dat file is small subset of Therion’s survey and 
centerline structure. Very easy to convert it in a plain text editor.

m.s.

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Graham Mullan]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:15:16 +0200, Steven Tucker wrote

Hi,

I have an old survey from the 80s and I have new sections that I want to add 
with
Therion. The old survey has no centerline data.

I have redrawn the old survey in a th2 file and allocated 3 points which 
correspond
to 3 different entrances. In the th file I have given coordinates to all 3 of 
those
points. This works perfectly.

I am struggling to connect the new section with this old section. The new 
section
starts in a deep section of the cave and is far away from any of my currently 
defined
points.

What is the easiest way to connect the new and old sections?

Steve

As other contributors have noted, you need centreline data from your entrance 
fixed
points to the start of your new section. There are only two ways to do this:

Run a rapid centreline survey through the cave to the start of the new sections 
&
hang everything off that. Or

Digitise the old survey. I have successfully used Larry Fish's "Map to Dat" 
utility
from "Compass" to do this, though you then have the irritation of converting 
Compass
data to Therion (not difficult, just irritating). 

Both of these approaches work OK when producing 3D models, but I have found them
rather less satisfactory when producing drawings as far various reasons the old
drawings never seem quite 'right'. A third approach is to hunt down the original
surveyors and see if the notes really have been lost or just left in a drawer
somewhere. If the latter, rejoice, if the former then, well, smearing them with 
honey
& lowering them into a pit of tiger ants seems about right.

Alternatively, you could just bite the bullet & resurvey the whole system from
scratch, we've had to do this once or twice & some of the largest systems in 
the UK
have been/are being completely redone for these reasons. If you do take this 
path
then please just ensure that your data is archived properly so no-one else is 
faced
with the same problem in another 30 years or so.

Graham

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Steven Tucker]

Hi,

I have an old survey from the 80s and I have new sections that I want to
add with Therion. The old survey has no centerline data.

I have redrawn the old survey in a th2 file and allocated 3 points which
correspond to 3 different entrances. In the th file I have given
coordinates to all 3 of those points. This works perfectly.

I am struggling to connect the new section with this old section. The new
section starts in a deep section of the cave and is far away from any of my
currently defined points.

What is the easiest way to connect the new and old sections?

Thanks,

Steven
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Joining old and new surveys

[Filippo Gregori]

Hi, I would think to create an auxiliary point and fictitious in the
plan and in elevation map, so would put the new section is from there.
Filippo


On 17/02/2015 07:15, Steven Tucker wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have an old survey from the 80s and I have new sections that I want to
> add with Therion. The old survey has no centerline data.
> 
> I have redrawn the old survey in a th2 file and allocated 3 points which
> correspond to 3 different entrances. In the th file I have given
> coordinates to all 3 of those points. This works perfectly.
> 
> I am struggling to connect the new section with this old section. The new
> section starts in a deep section of the cave and is far away from any of my
> currently defined points.
> 
> What is the easiest way to connect the new and old sections?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: