[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Footleg]

Thanks to Wookey for that link, I have downloaded and installed
SumatraPDF on Windows. This PDF reader appears to tick all the boxes.
It renders surveys nicely, does not lock the PDF file, and
auto-reloads the PDF when Therion rewrites it. Now I can have my PDFs
all open in Sumatra, and just click compile in xTherion and see my
changes in the PDF as soon as it is regenerated. If I want to
re-render my entire survey rather than the bit I am working on then I
just hit CTRL+t in Notepad++ with my Run command I emailed about
yesterday, and that PDF is updated and displayed automatically too.

I have added details of SumatraPDF and the PDFreaders.org link to the
wiki on this page:
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:externalviewers

Footleg

On 15 January 2013 21:38, Wookey  wrote:
>
> I've been using epdfview for a while now (ever since the idiots that
> package evince decide they don't care about mimetypes any more becuase
> it's 'old-fashioned', so they ignore older apps that ask for a pdf
> viewer, and epdfview picks up the request)
>
> It's very similar in many ways (same underlying poppler libraries,
> same GTK widgets) but doesn't have the crummy limted zoom feature of
> evince. Very nice for general work. It is pretty slow to zoom with big
> PDFs though. Looks like it re-renders the whole page rather than just
> the current viewport. Worse than evince. It tries to do a quick-zoom
> with unchanged resolution but somehow still takes ages over it.
>
> There are lots of others. The FSFe keep a list here:
> http://pdfreaders.org/
> (as part of their campaign to get the world to stop giving adobe free
> advertising)
>
> mupdf (also available for windows) is faster than both. Very simple
> with no graphical controls at all (use keys).
> can use -r to specify initial resolution (very handy toavoid lots of
> slow zooms on huge PDFs)
>
> xpdf renders like mupdf but has (old) motif-style control. It has
> prressive rendering which is nice - you can see something happening.
> It also doesn't render all the stuff off screen, which is quicker,
> except when dragging too far. Zoom seems quite slow though, just less
> boring as you get to watch :-) possibly slowest of the lot.
>
> okular (also available for windows and macos) is a pretty QT-based
> viewer. It gets the 'fast-zoom at unchanged resolution, render
> accurately later' thing right so is nice to use on big maps. You can
> zoom by area selection too. Very handy. Seems to run out of memory on
> my machine at high zoom levels (250% on a 5000x4000 px image). Maybe
> it was just taking forever. Rendering is slow but UI is nice so it
> matters less. It has loads of features. Export a segment as image,
> automatically reload on doc-change, options to tradoff memory use for
> speed
>
> The locking problem doesn't seem to exist on Linux, so they are all
> fine there. All have 'r' meaning reload.
>
> Only okular reloads to the zoom/position you were last at. This would
> be a useful feature to add in others. A PDF viewer optimised for huge
> single-page images rather than multipage docs would be a useful thing.
> The codebases for the above are all available if anyone gets enthused.
>
> So. I think okular and mupdf come out as best for big map viewing.
> evince and xpdf tied for bottom. I got bored before trying all the
> ones in the list.
>
> I didn't test anything with fancy transparency layers to see how they
> vary.
>
> One could do a proper test with some example (large/tricky/easy) PDFs
> and do timings and memory-usage checks.
>
> Wookey
> --
> Principal hats:  Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM
> http://wookware.org/

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Bruce]

Nice

I'll wait for the Therion update:-)

I can see uses with colour by altitude, explored date and surveyed date, to
compliment similar colour map-fg options

Bruce



  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Marco Corvi
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2013 8:58 p.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors



hi bruce,

they sort of come from therion, but it's a bad hack.
it was just a proof-of-concept.
i was too lazy to play with the sources, so i did it by hand.

anyways, here is the recipe:
define one preview color not used elsewhere (just to find it easily), say
[70 20 20].
compile with debug (-d).
go in thTMPDIR and edit the tex file, search the preview color (0.70 0.20
0.20
in the example), and insert your colors before the maps
(you might have to rearrange their order as well).
run pdftex (the "final" step of therion compile): data.pdf is your map.

kind of awkward, isn't it ?
that's why i'd like to have it done by therion without any fiddling with the
temporary files.

by the way, i also noticed the problem with preview-above, but i do not know
if it's therion or the reader.

marco 





  _  

From: Bruce 
To: 'List for Therion users'  
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors



Marco

I presume the colours in your example did not come from Therion?

But if they did, how to do?



BTW I think we still have a long standing bug where by preview-above is
always dark grey regardless of the user setting.



colour preview-above [80 0 40]  #should be magenta, but preview above is
still dark grey



Is it possible to fix?



Bruce



  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Marco Corvi
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013 5:23 a.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: [Therion] preview below with many colors





i'm making a therion map with many colors for the maps previewed below.



attached is a snapshot of the map (still in draft) in acroread.

with xpdf does not look so good (... maybe my mistake).



it would also be nice to have transparency in the below colors,

and that the order of the below areas reflect that of the selected map(s)

(or, better, altitude)



is it possible ?

thanks.



marco



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[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Wookey]

+++ Vasily Vl. Suhachev [2013-01-10 08:55 +0800]:
> Hello
> 
> 
> On Ubuntu Adobe Reader 9 not locks the file and allowing Ctrl+R to refresh
> 
> >I tried the following other readers: Evince: Does not lock the file,
> >so I can recompile my Therion project with the PDF open on my second
> >monitor, already zoomed into the area I am working on. The PDF
> >refreshes automatically when Therion completes generating it. Very
> >nice.
> 
> It is slow on medium and large maps. And it has crippled and slow zoom.
> But on small maps Evince is very nice.
> 
> Also on Linux exists xpdf. It is non-locking and slow. And it crashes
> when I open Therion PDFs on recent Ubuntu.

I've been using epdfview for a while now (ever since the idiots that
package evince decide they don't care about mimetypes any more becuase
it's 'old-fashioned', so they ignore older apps that ask for a pdf
viewer, and epdfview picks up the request)

It's very similar in many ways (same underlying poppler libraries,
same GTK widgets) but doesn't have the crummy limted zoom feature of
evince. Very nice for general work. It is pretty slow to zoom with big
PDFs though. Looks like it re-renders the whole page rather than just
the current viewport. Worse than evince. It tries to do a quick-zoom
with unchanged resolution but somehow still takes ages over it.

There are lots of others. The FSFe keep a list here:
http://pdfreaders.org/
(as part of their campaign to get the world to stop giving adobe free
advertising)

mupdf (also available for windows) is faster than both. Very simple
with no graphical controls at all (use keys).
can use -r to specify initial resolution (very handy toavoid lots of
slow zooms on huge PDFs)

xpdf renders like mupdf but has (old) motif-style control. It has
prressive rendering which is nice - you can see something happening.
It also doesn't render all the stuff off screen, which is quicker,
except when dragging too far. Zoom seems quite slow though, just less
boring as you get to watch :-) possibly slowest of the lot. 

okular (also available for windows and macos) is a pretty QT-based
viewer. It gets the 'fast-zoom at unchanged resolution, render
accurately later' thing right so is nice to use on big maps. You can
zoom by area selection too. Very handy. Seems to run out of memory on
my machine at high zoom levels (250% on a 5000x4000 px image). Maybe
it was just taking forever. Rendering is slow but UI is nice so it
matters less. It has loads of features. Export a segment as image,
automatically reload on doc-change, options to tradoff memory use for
speed

The locking problem doesn't seem to exist on Linux, so they are all
fine there. All have 'r' meaning reload. 

Only okular reloads to the zoom/position you were last at. This would
be a useful feature to add in others. A PDF viewer optimised for huge
single-page images rather than multipage docs would be a useful thing.
The codebases for the above are all available if anyone gets enthused.

So. I think okular and mupdf come out as best for big map viewing.
evince and xpdf tied for bottom. I got bored before trying all the
ones in the list.

I didn't test anything with fancy transparency layers to see how they
vary. 

One could do a proper test with some example (large/tricky/easy) PDFs
and do timings and memory-usage checks.

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM
http://wookware.org/

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Bruce]

Marco

I presume the colours in your example did not come from Therion?

But if they did, how to do?



BTW I think we still have a long standing bug where by preview-above is
always dark grey regardless of the user setting.



colour preview-above [80 0 40]  #should be magenta, but preview above is
still dark grey



Is it possible to fix?



Bruce



  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Marco Corvi
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013 5:23 a.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: [Therion] preview below with many colors





i'm making a therion map with many colors for the maps previewed below.



attached is a snapshot of the map (still in draft) in acroread.

with xpdf does not look so good (... maybe my mistake).



it would also be nice to have transparency in the below colors,

and that the order of the below areas reflect that of the selected map(s)

(or, better, altitude)



is it possible ?

thanks.



marco







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[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Marco Corvi]

hi bruce,

they sort of come from therion, but it's a bad hack.
it was just a proof-of-concept.
i was too lazy to play with the sources, so i did it by hand.

anyways, here is the recipe:
define one preview color not used elsewhere (just to find it easily), say [70 
20 20].
compile with debug (-d).
go in thTMPDIR and edit the tex file, search the preview color (0.70 0.20 0.20
in the example), and insert your colors before the maps
(you might have to rearrange their order as well).
run pdftex (the "final" step of therion compile): data.pdf is your map.

kind of awkward, isn't it ?
that's why i'd like to have it done by therion without any fiddling with the 
temporary files.

by the way, i also noticed the problem with preview-above, but i do not know
if it's therion or the reader.

marco





 From: Bruce 
To: 'List for Therion users'  
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors



Marco
I presume the colours in your example did
not come from Therion?
But if they did, how to do?
 
BTW I think we still have a long standing
bug where by preview-above is always dark grey regardless of the user setting.
 
colour preview-above [80 0 40]  #should
be magenta, but preview above is still dark grey
 
Is it possible to fix?
 
Bruce
 



From:therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On 
Behalf Of Marco Corvi
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013
5:23 a.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: [Therion] preview below
with many colors
 
 
i'm making
a therion map with many colors for the maps previewed below.
 
attached is
a snapshot of the map (still in draft) in acroread.
with xpdf
does not look so good (... maybe my mistake).
 
it would
also be nice to have transparency in the below colors,
and that
the order of the below areas reflect that of the selected map(s)
(or,
better, altitude)
 
is it
possible ?
thanks.
 
marco
 
 
 
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
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[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Martin Sluka]

MacOSX:

FastPreview [Space key] - automatically refresh, but has no zoom and other 
features. It is very useful to find file by preview.

Preview (default MacOSX application) - automatically refresh, preserve zoom, 
but not exact position of view.

Acrobat Pro (full) - lock files, there is feature to one-click refresh file if 
only one file is opened. You may switch on in preferences "Restore last view 
settings when reopening documents".

Acrobat Reader - lock files, there is feature to one-click refresh file if only 
one file is opened.  You may switch on in preferences "Restore last view 
settings when reopening documents".

There are dozens of commercial PDF editors in App Store, but I never tried them.

Martin

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Bruce]

Thanks Footleg, that looks good.
I have taken the liberty of adding your Cave Converter here
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:complimentarycaveapps#cave_co
nverter
Bruce

-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Footleg
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013 11:57 a.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors

I have updated the PDF section on that page, including some pictures
to illustrate rendering differences.

Footleg

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Footleg]

Thanks Bruce. I came across that page late last night and had planned
to add my cave converter on there today, so that saved me a job.

Footleg

On 13 January 2013 02:59, Bruce  wrote:
> Thanks Footleg, that looks good.
> I have taken the liberty of adding your Cave Converter here
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:complimentarycaveapps#cave_co
> nverter
> Bruce
>
> -Original Message-
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On 
> Behalf
> Of Footleg
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013 11:57 a.m.
> To: List for Therion users
> Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors
>
> I have updated the PDF section on that page, including some pictures
> to illustrate rendering differences.
>
> Footleg
>
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Footleg]

I have updated the PDF section on that page, including some pictures
to illustrate rendering differences.

Footleg

On 11 January 2013 05:00, Bruce  wrote:
> Footleg, Vasily,
> Seems like you have something to add to this page
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:externalviewers
>
> Feel free to edit it if you want.
> Bruce

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Bruce]

Footleg, Vasily,
Seems like you have something to add to this page
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:externalviewers 

Feel free to edit it if you want.
Bruce

-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Footleg
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2013 5:29 a.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors

Just happens that I have been experimenting with different PDF readers
too. I was frustrated by the fact that Adobe Reader (at least on
Windows) locks the PDF file. So you have to close it to recompile a
map, and when you reopen the PDF it has reset to the default view and
you have to zoom back in the the area you were working on to check the
detail.

I tried the following other readers:
Evince:
Does not lock the file, so I can recompile my Therion project with the
PDF open on my second monitor, already zoomed into the area I am
working on. The PDF refreshes automatically when Therion completes
generating it. Very nice. Unfortunately this PDF reader does not clip
area fills properly, so my fills extend outside the passage walls in
this viewer. But great for previewing scrap joins.

Foxit Reader:
This one does lock the PDF file. But at least if you close the PDF,
recompile the project and then reopen the PDF from the 'recent files'
menu it restores the last view you had open. So it shows the detailed
area you were last zoomed in to. This reader does clip the fills
properly.

Both Evince and Foxit Reader render transparency slightly differently
to Adboe reader. My rocks show semi-transparent so I can see area
fills underneath them. But in Adobe reader the rocks are solid.

Anyone got any tips to add?

Footleg

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Footleg]

Again, the wiki contains useful information that somehow I failed to
notice! I will add my knowledge to that page.

Footleg

On 11 January 2013 05:00, Bruce  wrote:
> Footleg, Vasily,
> Seems like you have something to add to this page
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/contrib:externalviewers
>
> Feel free to edit it if you want.
> Bruce
>
> -Original Message-
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On 
> Behalf
> Of Footleg
> Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2013 5:29 a.m.
> To: List for Therion users
> Subject: Re: [Therion] preview below with many colors
>
> Just happens that I have been experimenting with different PDF readers
> too. I was frustrated by the fact that Adobe Reader (at least on
> Windows) locks the PDF file. So you have to close it to recompile a
> map, and when you reopen the PDF it has reset to the default view and
> you have to zoom back in the the area you were working on to check the
> detail.
>
> I tried the following other readers:
> Evince:
> Does not lock the file, so I can recompile my Therion project with the
> PDF open on my second monitor, already zoomed into the area I am
> working on. The PDF refreshes automatically when Therion completes
> generating it. Very nice. Unfortunately this PDF reader does not clip
> area fills properly, so my fills extend outside the passage walls in
> this viewer. But great for previewing scrap joins.
>
> Foxit Reader:
> This one does lock the PDF file. But at least if you close the PDF,
> recompile the project and then reopen the PDF from the 'recent files'
> menu it restores the last view you had open. So it shows the detailed
> area you were last zoomed in to. This reader does clip the fills
> properly.
>
> Both Evince and Foxit Reader render transparency slightly differently
> to Adboe reader. My rocks show semi-transparent so I can see area
> fills underneath them. But in Adobe reader the rocks are solid.
>
> Anyone got any tips to add?
>
> Footleg
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Vasily Vl. Suhachev]

Hello

10.01.2013 00:29, Footleg пишет:
> Just happens that I have been experimenting with different PDF
> readers too.

> I was frustrated by the fact that Adobe Reader (at least on Windows)
> locks the PDF file.

On Ubuntu Adobe Reader 9 not locks the file and allowing Ctrl+R to refresh

> I tried the following other readers: Evince: Does not lock the file,
> so I can recompile my Therion project with the PDF open on my second
> monitor, already zoomed into the area I am working on. The PDF
> refreshes automatically when Therion completes generating it. Very
> nice.

It is slow on medium and large maps. And it has crippled and slow zoom.
But on small maps Evince is very nice.

> Foxit Reader: This one does lock the PDF file.

Old Windows versions (2 or maybe 3) not lock the file, afair

> Anyone got any tips to add?

On Windows I am using PDF-XChange viewer. It locks file but faster and
more customisable. Shows boulders like FoxIt.

Also on Linux exists xpdf. It is non-locking and slow. And it crashes
when I open Therion PDFs on recent Ubuntu.

-- 
  WBR, Vasily

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Footleg]

Just happens that I have been experimenting with different PDF readers
too. I was frustrated by the fact that Adobe Reader (at least on
Windows) locks the PDF file. So you have to close it to recompile a
map, and when you reopen the PDF it has reset to the default view and
you have to zoom back in the the area you were working on to check the
detail.

I tried the following other readers:
Evince:
Does not lock the file, so I can recompile my Therion project with the
PDF open on my second monitor, already zoomed into the area I am
working on. The PDF refreshes automatically when Therion completes
generating it. Very nice. Unfortunately this PDF reader does not clip
area fills properly, so my fills extend outside the passage walls in
this viewer. But great for previewing scrap joins.

Foxit Reader:
This one does lock the PDF file. But at least if you close the PDF,
recompile the project and then reopen the PDF from the 'recent files'
menu it restores the last view you had open. So it shows the detailed
area you were last zoomed in to. This reader does clip the fills
properly.

Both Evince and Foxit Reader render transparency slightly differently
to Adboe reader. My rocks show semi-transparent so I can see area
fills underneath them. But in Adobe reader the rocks are solid.

Anyone got any tips to add?

Footleg

On 8 January 2013 16:22, Marco Corvi  wrote:
>
> i'm making a therion map with many colors for the maps previewed below.
>
> attached is a snapshot of the map (still in draft) in acroread.
> with xpdf does not look so good (... maybe my mistake).
>
> it would also be nice to have transparency in the below colors,
> and that the order of the below areas reflect that of the selected map(s)
> (or, better, altitude)
>
> is it possible ?
> thanks.
>
> marco
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>

[Therion] preview below with many colors

[Marco Corvi]

i'm making a therion map with many colors for the maps previewed below.


attached is a snapshot of the map (still in draft) in acroread.
with xpdf does not look so good (... maybe my mistake).


it would also be nice to have transparency in the below colors,
and that the order of the below areas reflect that of the selected map(s)
(or, better, altitude)


is it possible ?
thanks.

marco
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