[Therion] strange scrap plotting

[Bruce]

Hi Will

I really like it that you have put in place a system, and documented it in
your DDC.map.th file and the other *.map.th files.  It might be the first
time I have seen a detailed description of a structured way to organize
Therion data (apologies to those who have shared their strategies with me in
the past).  The therion wiki goes part way to achieving this, but does not
yet describe a structured scalable system.  Well, I am trying to put
something together based on what I have stumbled on and cobbled together,
but it has been a few years in the making - mostly it is hidden in the
datasets I am working on - some of it has found it's way onto the wiki
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=do



So unfortunately I have not absorbed the niceties of the system your data
uses in 5 minutes, but I'll make a few hasty comments.  It seems to be a
little complicated, but that may just be because I have not yet figured out
the greater purpose. Forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but as I
haven't yet solved the problem I'll just go through and point out the
'interesting' bits in your data.

I notice you are using therion 5.3.  Although the 'stable version' it is
quite old.

Therion 5.3.6 is much better I think.  That said, the dataset will not
compile on my system.  I get an error;

D:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error --
../././scraps/DDC_20101106_1.th2 [8] -- zero scale real length

That suggests to me that the scrap has not been scaled properly (or that 5.3
is indeed better).

It has three points but no walls, so is bound to cause trouble.  Adding
walls did not help however.

On looking at this scrap I notice the names are quite cumbersome;



-name a3 at 20101106.center.DDC



If indeed the .center.DDC are 'required' in the th2 file then the system may
be a little cumbersome.  Also the station names are repeated in the id box.
This is not an error, but does seem redundant.  Therion does not require it.



Some of your files do not have the first line;

encoding  utf-8

In the past if I have excluded this then my Windows operating system and
text editors tend to screw up my data files, or not work at all.  Possibly
therion throws a fit if it's missing- I forget.  Of course the confusing
thing is that Xtherion hides the encoding line, so unless you use a
different editor you might not have noticed.



I notice that although you have quite a few drawing files the dataset only
tries to invoke one of them.  I have not tried to make the others work, but
I have noticed that if I comment out references to DDC_20101106 then I can
get nice pdfs, lists and models.



So in short, with a few minutes fiddling I cannot repeat the same error you
describe, I suspect 5.3.6 is better at trapping errors and that there is a
problem with the way you are making your scraps or a problem with the way
the system you have adopted is trying to tie the components together.

Anyone else?



Bruce

  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Will Urbanski
Sent: Tuesday, 12 April 2011 12:41 p.m.
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: [Therion] strange scrap plotting



Hello, 



I have been drafting a map using therion but my export is generating a very
strange PDF. All my data (line plot) plots correctly in the map, but my
scraps are all tiling on a specific station. For instance, say I have
stations A1, A2, A3, and A4 labeled in a scrap. For some reason Therion is
plotting all the station & additional points (A2,A3,A4,stalagmites, etc)
exactly at the same location as A1. My scraps also contain walls but the
walls don't plot. I have a friend who is very talented with Therion and he
has looked at my project and is not sure why it is not working correctly,
thus I am not sure if this is a bug or something that I have screwed up. My
entire project is attached to this email (thconfig in /config/, A1 is in the
lower left-hand corner of map). Any thoughts you have would be greatly
appreciated.



best regards,



will

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[Therion] strange scrap plotting

[marco corvi]

hi will,

bruce made quite a good analysis of your example.
i got the same result as he.

personally, i found that, while it is convenient to
separate scrap and data, it's better to organize the
project in small selfcontained chunks (say a few surveys or
pieces of them and their maps) that can be compiled 
(and debugged) individually.

next i put the chunks together, creating a survey 
hierarchy, with bigger and bigger maps, solving the
equate and the joins a piece at a time as i go up
in the hierarchy.

just my way to manage this complexity.
there are a few fine points, but this is the big
picture.

attached is a "revised" archive of your project:
the map with the drawings is included (selected) in the output:
1) equate station A2 at ... with a2 at ...: not sure this is correct
2) changed the station names in the scrap (just a quick fix)

marco 


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[Therion] strange scrap plotting

[Will Urbanski]

Bruce, thanks for those links.

I am going to retry getting everything to compile in 5.3.6 and see where
that gets me. As for the encoding utf-8... i have been working on this
across windows and linux systems, sometimes in VI, sometimes in the therion
texteditor, and sometimes in windows text editors. This is probably not a
great practice but I work across multiple systems during the day and i
always want to try and get something done on this map :) I'll make sure i
add those encodings to the docs.

I agree that the namespace references are a little cumbersome, but it seemed
like a nice way to keep my survey dates differentiated. We have not been
using splay shots either so it was easy to automatically incorporate
everything into the centerline.

Thank you for your help!

will

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Bruce  wrote:

>  Hi Will
>
> I really like it that you have put in place a system, and documented it in
> your DDC.map.th file and the other *.map.th files.  It might be the first
> time I have seen a detailed description of a structured way to organize
> Therion data (apologies to those who have shared their strategies with me in
> the past).  The therion wiki goes part way to achieving this, but does not
> yet describe a structured scalable system.  Well, I am trying to put
> something together based on what I have stumbled on and cobbled together,
> but it has been a few years in the making – mostly it is hidden in the
> datasets I am working on – some of it has found it’s way onto the wiki
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=do
>
>
>
> So unfortunately I have not absorbed the niceties of the system your data
> uses in 5 minutes, but I’ll make a few hasty comments.  It seems to be a
> little complicated, but that may just be because I have not yet figured out
> the greater purpose… Forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but as I
> haven’t yet solved the problem I’ll just go through and point out the
> ‘interesting’ bits in your data.
>
> I notice you are using therion 5.3.  Although the ‘stable version’ it is
> quite old.
>
> Therion 5.3.6 is much better I think.  That said, the dataset will not
> compile on my system.  I get an error;
>
> D:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error --
> ../././scraps/DDC_20101106_1.th2 [8] -- zero scale real length
>
> That suggests to me that the scrap has not been scaled properly (or that
> 5.3 is indeed better).
>
> It has three points but no walls, so is bound to cause trouble.  Adding
> walls did not help however.
>
> On looking at this scrap I notice the names are quite cumbersome;
>
>
>
> -name a3 at 20101106.center.DDC
>
>
>
> If indeed the .center.DDC are ‘required’ in the th2 file then the system
> may be a little cumbersome.  Also the station names are repeated in the id
> box.  This is not an error, but does seem redundant.  Therion does not
> require it.
>
>
>
> Some of your files do not have the first line;
>
> encoding  utf-8
>
> In the past if I have excluded this then my Windows operating system and
> text editors tend to screw up my data files, or not work at all.  Possibly
> therion throws a fit if it’s missing- I forget.  Of course the confusing
> thing is that Xtherion hides the encoding line, so unless you use a
> different editor you might not have noticed.
>
>
>
> I notice that although you have quite a few drawing files the dataset only
> tries to invoke one of them.  I have not tried to make the others work, but
> I have noticed that if I comment out references to DDC_20101106 then I can
> get nice pdfs, lists and models.
>
>
>
> So in short, with a few minutes fiddling I cannot repeat the same error you
> describe, I suspect 5.3.6 is better at trapping errors and that there is a
> problem with the way you are making your scraps or a problem with the way
> the system you have adopted is trying to tie the components together.
>
> Anyone else?
>
>
>
> Bruce
>  --
>
> *From:* therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] *On
> Behalf Of *Will Urbanski
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 April 2011 12:41 p.m.
> *To:* therion at speleo.sk
> *Subject:* [Therion] strange scrap plotting
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I have been drafting a map using therion but my export is generating a very
> strange PDF. All my data (line plot) plots correctly in the map, but my
> scraps are all tiling on a specific station. For instance, say I have
> stations A1, A2, A3, and A4 labeled in a scrap. For some reason Therion is
> plotting all the station & additional points (A2,A3,A4,stalagmites, etc)
> exactly at the same location as A1. My scraps also contain walls but the
> walls don'