Re: [Thunar-dev] Gnome is trying to decrease memory usage.

[Brian J. Tarricone]

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Hash: SHA1

On 9/19/2005 8:56 AM, Javier Aravena wrote:
> I don't think gtk will be gnome toolkit before topaz (or the same,
> before it hits 3.0), I think people will have no trouble working in gtk2
> (as in gimp toolkit 2) once that happens. Remember Gnome won't break
> backwards-compatibility before topaz (I believe that's the only reason
> bonobo is still bonobo and no something more like kparts).

This really has nothing to do with backwards-compatibility.  Benny's
gripe is the possibility that the gtk/gnome folks will cram so much crap
into GTK, that it'll be useless as a general-purpose widget toolkit, and
will have too many gnome-specific things in it.

Regardless of the "when" of this, it's something to worry about for the
future.  Perhaps we should write our own widget toolkit for Xfce.  (Yes,
I'm kidding.  That's a monumental task.)

-brian


> 
> 2005/9/19, Benedikt Meurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >:
> 
> I should make clear, that this is - of course - my POV. Others may (and
> will) have a different view on these issues.
> 
> And to forestall the next question: Yes, I know about Project Ridley.
> This is indeed a chance for GTK, but it's not garantied that GTK will
> benefit from it. There's also a good chance that GTK will become the
> "GNOME Tool Kit", which will render it useless for many projects (most
> probably including Xfce and Thunar).
> 
> Benedikt
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Website template CSS update

[Biju Chacko]

Jeff Franks wrote:
> I have modified the CSS file to display a narrower sidebar. Its width is 
> now 14em instead of 16em. Here are a couple of things you should keep in 
> mind when you look at the template.
> 
> Firstly, the website does display properly in Konqueror, Opera and 
> Firefox 1.5b1. As soon as I can get my hands on the IE download for 
> Linux I'll check that out as well :-) . There are a few rendering and 
> scrolling bugs in firefox 1.04. I think you have to ignore these because 
> 1.04 will be short lived whereas the Thunar website wont. Eventually, 
> everyone will have 1.5 and it wont be an issue.
> 
> Secondly, as Jannis rightly pointed out, it's a bad idea to set font 
> type and size for ordinary text in a web page. Especially font sizes 
> less than 1em. This is because you override the user's font prefences 
> which might not be suitable for the user. It is much better the design a 
> website to look reasonable at most font sizes and leave it up to the 
> user to decide what font to use. A case in point is for vision impaired 
> people (such as with Macula Degeneration). They usually look a web page 
> using a very, very large font. Another case is on PDA's. Web pages 
> should look reasonable on these small devices as well, but most web 
> pages don't. If you have a look at the template using different font 
> sizes you will see that the layout scales up and down reasonably well.
> 
> Lastly, the current file extension used is .xhtml. This can always be 
> changed to .html if preferred.

This is a nice website. Lets go live with it and tweak it further as we 
go along, if necessary.

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Re: [Thunar-dev] Fwd: Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Biju Chacko]

Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
> Hey Erik,
> 
> Erik Harrison schrieb:
> 
>>Very nice design, and well done indeed.
>>
>>However, is it possible to cut down on the size of the sidebar a few
>>pixels. 
> 
> 
> Pixels? No. See my answer to Yo'av's post.

I think you need to specify that small fonts should be used. That makes 
it look pretty good.

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[Thunar-dev] Website template CSS update

[Jeff Franks]

Hi again,

I have modified the CSS file to display a narrower sidebar. Its width is 
now 14em instead of 16em. Here are a couple of things you should keep in 
mind when you look at the template.

Firstly, the website does display properly in Konqueror, Opera and 
Firefox 1.5b1. As soon as I can get my hands on the IE download for 
Linux I'll check that out as well :-) . There are a few rendering and 
scrolling bugs in firefox 1.04. I think you have to ignore these because 
1.04 will be short lived whereas the Thunar website wont. Eventually, 
everyone will have 1.5 and it wont be an issue.

Secondly, as Jannis rightly pointed out, it's a bad idea to set font 
type and size for ordinary text in a web page. Especially font sizes 
less than 1em. This is because you override the user's font prefences 
which might not be suitable for the user. It is much better the design a 
website to look reasonable at most font sizes and leave it up to the 
user to decide what font to use. A case in point is for vision impaired 
people (such as with Macula Degeneration). They usually look a web page 
using a very, very large font. Another case is on PDA's. Web pages 
should look reasonable on these small devices as well, but most web 
pages don't. If you have a look at the template using different font 
sizes you will see that the layout scales up and down reasonably well.

Lastly, the current file extension used is .xhtml. This can always be 
changed to .html if preferred.

Jeff Franks.


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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jeff Franks]

Jari Rahkonen wrote:

>Anders Aagaard wrote:
>
>  
>
> [snip]
>
>>
>>
>If you're using firefox 1.0.x, this might be due to a known problem with
>gtk2 builds of the browser and divs with the css property 'overflow' set
>to 'auto'. I can't be bothered to check the style sheet right now to make
>sure. Here's a test case:
>
>http://devrandom.com/test/overflow_auto.html
>
>Works fine here on firefox 1.5 beta.
>
>  
>
Definately a firefox < 1.04 bug which is fixed in 1.5 beta.

Jeff.

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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jeff Franks]

Yo'av Moshe wrote:

>Very nice looking, but 2 things -
>
>1. I'm having the same problem as Anders.
>2. It feels like the sidebar is too wide. Seems like 25%, which is way
>too much in my opinion.
>
>  
>
This can be changed... but it is roughly the same size as the Xfce 
sidebar. The only difference is that it's width changes with font size, 
not as percentage of window width. Benedikt didn't like the sidebar 
links wrapping. You can't have it both ways. If sidebar links don't wrap 
the sidebar has to expand with larger fonts to accomadate the whole 
link.  If links wrap then the sidebar can be set to a percentage of the 
window width.

Jeff.

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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Yo'av Moshe]

Apparently this is not only a Firefox problem, since I'm a Mozilla
user and also suffering from the same bug.

Epiphany behaves the same.

a Gecko bug.

Yo'av.

On 9/19/05, Jari Rahkonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anders Aagaard wrote:
> 
> > Jeff Franks wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
> >> Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
> >> collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
> >> XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
> >> Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
> >> had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
> >> hopefully you will be too.
> >>
> >> So here is the website:
> >>
> >> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
> >>
> >> and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
> >>
> >> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
> >> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
> >>
> >> Here are a few points to note:
> >>
> >> 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
> >> website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
> >> color scheme and logos.
> >>
> >> 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
> >> HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
> >> know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
> >> the most important search engines.
> >>
> >> 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
> >> placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
> >> there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
> >> the top bar will not be displayed.
> >>
> >> 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
> >> as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
> >> a sponsor.
> >>
> >> 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
> >> because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
> >> and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
> >>
> >> 6 The text content and links have just been taken from the current
> >> Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain. The
> >> text and links can be changed/refined as required.
> >>
> >> Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
> >> I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
> >> when I wake up.
> >
> >
> Looks pretty, but I have to join the chorus and say that the sidebar
> is definitely too massive.
> 
> > Looks very nice, clean layout, I like it. One thing I noticed was that
> > I couldn't use my mouse scroll to scroll all of the page. If I put my
> > mouse over the left part of the page (blue part) I can scroll the entire
> > page, if I put it over the white part with news and such, I can only
> > scroll a little.
> >
> If you're using firefox 1.0.x, this might be due to a known problem with
> gtk2 builds of the browser and divs with the css property 'overflow' set
> to 'auto'. I can't be bothered to check the style sheet right now to make
> sure. Here's a test case:
> 
> http://devrandom.com/test/overflow_auto.html
> 
> Works fine here on firefox 1.5 beta.
> 
> >>Jeff.
> >>
> 
> - Jari
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Yo'av Moshe]

I don't know, but here I have quite a bit more than the size needed
for seeing the text without warping. Maybe there's a lot of
padding-right given on the sidebar's text?

Sorry for my language, English isn't my first language.

Yo'av.

On 9/19/05, Jannis Pohlmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Yo'av Moshe schrieb:
> > Very nice looking, but 2 things -
> >
> > 1. I'm having the same problem as Anders.
> 
> Oh, yes. I didn't look into the latest internals of the stylesheet, but
> the reason might be rather easy to find. Let's wait for what Jeff says.
> 
> > 2. It feels like the sidebar is too wide. Seems like 25%, which is way
> > too much in my opinion.
> 
> It's not 25% - it's the lowest amount needed for displaying the links in
> the sidebar without wrapping the text. Well, choosing shorter names as
> "thunar-workers mailing list" would make it possible to use a smaller
> value here. But as Jeff already mentioned, this is only an example of
> how the content could look like.
> 
> - Jannis
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jari Rahkonen]

Anders Aagaard wrote:

> Jeff Franks wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
>> Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
>> collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
>> XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
>> Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
>> had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
>> hopefully you will be too.
>>
>> So here is the website:
>>
>> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
>>
>> and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
>>
>> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
>> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
>>
>> Here are a few points to note:
>>
>> 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
>> website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
>> color scheme and logos.
>>
>> 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
>> HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
>> know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
>> the most important search engines.
>>
>> 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
>> placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
>> there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
>> the top bar will not be displayed.
>>
>> 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
>> as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
>> a sponsor.
>>
>> 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
>> because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
>> and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
>>
>> 6 The text content and links have just been taken from the current
>> Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain. The
>> text and links can be changed/refined as required.
>>
>> Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
>> I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
>> when I wake up.
>
>
Looks pretty, but I have to join the chorus and say that the sidebar
is definitely too massive.

> Looks very nice, clean layout, I like it. One thing I noticed was that
> I couldn't use my mouse scroll to scroll all of the page. If I put my
> mouse over the left part of the page (blue part) I can scroll the entire
> page, if I put it over the white part with news and such, I can only
> scroll a little.
>
If you're using firefox 1.0.x, this might be due to a known problem with
gtk2 builds of the browser and divs with the css property 'overflow' set
to 'auto'. I can't be bothered to check the style sheet right now to make
sure. Here's a test case:

http://devrandom.com/test/overflow_auto.html

Works fine here on firefox 1.5 beta.

>>Jeff.
>>

- Jari
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jannis Pohlmann]

Hey,

Henrik Andersen schrieb:
> On 19/09/05, Jeff Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
>>Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
>>collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
>>XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
>>Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
>>had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
>>hopefully you will be too.
>>
>>So here is the website:
>>
>>http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
>>
>>and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
>>
>>http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
>>http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
>>
>>Here are a few points to note:
>>
>>1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
>>website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
>>color scheme and logos.
>>
>>2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
>>HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
>>know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
>>the most important search engines.
>>
>>3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
>>placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
>>there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
>>the top bar will not be displayed.
>>
>>4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
>>as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
>>a sponsor.
>>
>>5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
>>because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
>>and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
>>
>>6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current
>>Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The
>>text and links can be changed/refined as  required.
>>
>>Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
>>I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
>>when I wake up.
>>
>>Jeff.
>>
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
> 
> 
> Just want to comment on this, even though I'm in the words of
> Spottswoode "a butt-f*cking quitter".
> 
> This is an extremely nice layout, and the code is top-notch. Congrats
> on making such a great website for Thunar. My only comment would be to
> go over the spelling. I can testify that it isn't easy to get spelling
> right in the middle of the night.
> 
> ... I lied saying I only had one comment. I'd also slightly reduce the
> padding of the sidebar. And IE doesn't know what to do with the .xhtml
> files. That's it, though, promise!

Didn't look at it with an IE but I can do this tomorrow.

Jeff: You can use  in the XHTML template/code for
adding CSS which is intended to be parsed *only* by IE. This makes it
able to fix IE-specific bugs.

Regards,
Jannis

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Re: [Thunar-dev] Fwd: Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jannis Pohlmann]

Hey Erik,

Erik Harrison schrieb:
> Very nice design, and well done indeed.
> 
> However, is it possible to cut down on the size of the sidebar a few
> pixels. 

Pixels? No. See my answer to Yo'av's post.

- Jannis
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jannis Pohlmann]

Hi,

Yo'av Moshe schrieb:
> Very nice looking, but 2 things -
> 
> 1. I'm having the same problem as Anders.

Oh, yes. I didn't look into the latest internals of the stylesheet, but
the reason might be rather easy to find. Let's wait for what Jeff says.

> 2. It feels like the sidebar is too wide. Seems like 25%, which is way
> too much in my opinion.

It's not 25% - it's the lowest amount needed for displaying the links in
the sidebar without wrapping the text. Well, choosing shorter names as
"thunar-workers mailing list" would make it possible to use a smaller
value here. But as Jeff already mentioned, this is only an example of
how the content could look like.

- Jannis
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Henrik Andersen]

On 19/09/05, Jeff Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
> Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
> collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
> XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
> Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
> had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
> hopefully you will be too.
> 
> So here is the website:
> 
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
> 
> and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
> 
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
> 
> Here are a few points to note:
> 
> 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
> website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
> color scheme and logos.
> 
> 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
> HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
> know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
> the most important search engines.
> 
> 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
> placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
> there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
> the top bar will not be displayed.
> 
> 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
> as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
> a sponsor.
> 
> 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
> because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
> and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
> 
> 6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current
> Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The
> text and links can be changed/refined as  required.
> 
> Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
> I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
> when I wake up.
> 
> Jeff.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Thunar-dev mailing list
> Thunar-dev@xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
> 

Just want to comment on this, even though I'm in the words of
Spottswoode "a butt-f*cking quitter".

This is an extremely nice layout, and the code is top-notch. Congrats
on making such a great website for Thunar. My only comment would be to
go over the spelling. I can testify that it isn't easy to get spelling
right in the middle of the night.

... I lied saying I only had one comment. I'd also slightly reduce the
padding of the sidebar. And IE doesn't know what to do with the .xhtml
files. That's it, though, promise!

-- 
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad move."
-Douglas Adams
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[Thunar-dev] Fwd: Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Erik Harrison]

Very nice design, and well done indeed.

However, is it possible to cut down on the size of the sidebar a few
pixels. I initially thought that I need to side scroll, because the
ratios of sidebar to main content is a little higher than the average.
My brain just assumed before I could look that the page wasn't fitting
horizontally.

Other than that, gorgeous

On 9/19/05, Jeff Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
> Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
> collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
> XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
> Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
> had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
> hopefully you will be too.
>
> So here is the website:
>
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
>
> and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
>
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
>
> Here are a few points to note:
>
> 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
> website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
> color scheme and logos.
>
> 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
> HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
> know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
> the most important search engines.
>
> 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
> placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
> there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
> the top bar will not be displayed.
>
> 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
> as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
> a sponsor.
>
> 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
> because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
> and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
>
> 6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current
> Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The
> text and links can be changed/refined as  required.
>
> Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
> I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
> when I wake up.
>
> Jeff.
>
>
>
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>


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All I needed to do was watch Perfect Strangers."
-Erik


-- 
"This brings me back to a time where I had no worries. 
All I needed to do was watch Perfect Strangers."
-Erik
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Yo'av Moshe]

Very nice looking, but 2 things -

1. I'm having the same problem as Anders.
2. It feels like the sidebar is too wide. Seems like 25%, which is way
too much in my opinion.

Other than that - I think it's very nice, if everyone will agree on
that I'l fix the old phpBB2 theme.

Yo'av.

On 9/19/05, Anders Aagaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Franks wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the
> > Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I
> > collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical
> > XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant.
> > Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I
> > had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and
> > hopefully you will be too.
> >
> > So here is the website:
> >
> > http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
> >
> > and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
> >
> > http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
> > http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
> >
> > Here are a few points to note:
> >
> > 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce
> > website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the
> > color scheme and logos.
> >
> > 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the
> > HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't
> > know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to
> > the most important search engines.
> >
> > 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be
> > placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links
> > there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there
> > the top bar will not be displayed.
> >
> > 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such
> > as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was
> > a sponsor.
> >
> > 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem
> > because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem
> > and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
> >
> > 6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current
> > Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The
> > text and links can be changed/refined as  required.
> >
> > Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and
> > I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered
> > when I wake up.
> 
> Looks very nice, clean layout, I like it.  One thing I noticed was that
> I couldn't use my mouse scroll to scroll all of the page.  If I put my
> mouse over the left part of the page (blue part) I can scroll the entire
> page, if I put it over the white part with news and such, I can only
> scroll a little.
> 
> >
> > Jeff.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Thunar-dev mailing list
> > Thunar-dev@xfce.org
> > http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
> >
> 
> ___
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> 


-- 
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http://www.PlaceOnEarth.org
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Anders Aagaard]

Jeff Franks wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the 
> Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I 
> collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical 
> XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant. 
> Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I 
> had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and 
> hopefully you will be too.
> 
> So here is the website:
> 
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web
> 
> and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:
> 
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
> http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.
> 
> Here are a few points to note:
> 
> 1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce 
> website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the 
> color scheme and logos.
> 
> 2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the 
> HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't 
> know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to 
> the most important search engines.
> 
> 3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be 
> placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links 
> there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there 
> the top bar will not be displayed.
> 
> 4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such 
> as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was 
> a sponsor.
> 
> 5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem 
> because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem 
> and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.
> 
> 6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current 
> Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The 
> text and links can be changed/refined as  required.
> 
> Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and 
> I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered 
> when I wake up.

Looks very nice, clean layout, I like it.  One thing I noticed was that
I couldn't use my mouse scroll to scroll all of the page.  If I put my
mouse over the left part of the page (blue part) I can scroll the entire
page, if I put it over the white part with news and such, I can only
scroll a little.

> 
> Jeff.
> 
> 
>  
> ___
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> 

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[Thunar-dev] Thunar rather than later... it's a website!

[Jeff Franks]

Hi all,

I've been working hard for the past three weeks on my proposal for the 
Thunar web site. Rather than risk the discussion becoming an off topic I 
collaborated with Jannis Pohlmann off-list to nut out the technical 
XHMTL/CSS details, to ensure the website would be standards compliant. 
Achieving compliance and a great looking design was hard... because I 
had to think outside the box. I'm happy with the result though and 
hopefully you will be too.

So here is the website:

http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web

and here is the web page template and CSS file if your interested:

http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/template.xhtml
http://xfc.xfce.org/tmp/thunar-web/styles/thunar-blue.css.

Here are a few points to note:

1. I wanted to design a layout that could easily be used for a new Xfce 
website (and any of its related websites) if so desired. Just change the 
color scheme and logos.

2. The main page, index.xhtml contains Dublin Core meta elements for the 
HTML head (http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/). If you didn't 
know, these elements are one of the best ways to make a website known to 
the most important search engines.

3. The 'top bar' is the area where links to external websites could be 
placed, as is currently done on the Xfce website. As there are no links 
there yet I have temporarily inserted space. If the space is not there 
the top bar will not be displayed.

4. The space below the sidebar could be used for dedicated icons, such 
as a WC3 XHTML 1.0/CSS compliance icon, or a sponsor's icon if there was 
a sponsor.

5. With the Opera browser there is a 'corner' image display problem 
because of the way the browser resizes images. This is not my problem 
and by now I'm sure Opera users are used to such bad effects.

6  The text content and links have just been taken from the current 
Thunar site as an example of what the new web pages could contain.  The 
text and links can be changed/refined as  required.

Well that's it. Let me know what you think. It's 0339 in the morning and 
I have to get to bed so I'll answer any posts that need to be answered 
when I wake up.

Jeff.


 
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Gnome is trying to decrease memory usage.

[Javier Aravena]

I don't think gtk will be gnome toolkit before topaz (or the same,
before it hits 3.0), I think people will have no trouble working in
gtk2 (as in gimp toolkit 2) once that happens. Remember Gnome won't
break backwards-compatibility before topaz (I believe that's the only
reason bonobo is still bonobo and no something more like kparts).2005/9/19, Benedikt Meurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
I should make clear, that this is - of course - my POV. Others may (andwill) have a different view on these issues.
And to forestall the next question: Yes, I know about Project Ridley.This is indeed a chance for GTK, but it's not garantied that GTK willbenefit from it. There's also a good chance that GTK will become the
"GNOME Tool Kit", which will render it useless for many projects (mostprobably including Xfce and Thunar).Benedikt___Thunar-dev mailing list
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-- Phrodo_00--http://ideasenteclado.blogsome.comhttp://frodo-00.deviantart.com
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Gnome is trying to decrease memory usage.

[Benedikt Meurer]

Benedikt Meurer wrote:
> This is pretty old news. GLib already contains some optimizations (like
> G_PARAM_STATIC_NAME, etc.). There are a lot of places throughout GTK/GDK
> where you could actually save memory (also cairo comes to mind now), but
> it's really not that trivial: Most of this (so called) "memory overhead"
> is used to provide better performance. You could probably save a few
> 100k data memory for GTK/GDK in a typical application, but that's not
> where most of the memory is wasted. You're better off checking the upper
> layers, above GTK, first (and in the special case of glibc/linux, you
> should also check the libc layer, as Thunar consumes atleast twice as
> much data memory on Linux, dunno why).
> 
> Speaking of Nautilus, it's nothing special. You can apply the same
> optimizations as everywhere else. For example, reduce the heap (mis)use
> for temporary memory (grep'ing for g_strdup_printf() and friends will
> usually give a long list of functions, where it would be better to work
> on the stack, rather than the heap), reducing the number of wasted bytes
> per memory allocation (for example, it would be a good idea to use a
> memory chunk for classes like NautilusFile, which are instantiated very
> often) and reducing the memory required for "static" library data (e.g.
> Gnome-VFS comes to mind here). Gnome-VFS in particular can be seen as a
> problem for long-running processes like Nautilus, a concept similar to
> KIO would provide better results here. Another important point would be
> to reduce the number of shared libraries that are only required by
> Nautilus (for example, libeel and libnautilus-private could be linked
> statically, or clean them up and merge the required parts into the other
> libraries and nautilus itself).
> 
> But all these ideas are well known-facts, and by no means new to the
> GNOME developers. The problem here is not a technical problem, but more
> a political problem. Most of the overhead noticed with GNOME today is
> caused by politics (e.g. what goes into which library, why can't we do
> this like that, my d*ck is larger than yours, and the like). If people
> would sit down for 6 months and do the required code auditing and then
> release a clean and stable 2.14, that'd really take them forward (and
> don't say that's impossible; for example the OpenBSD guys succeed
> because of this concept). But this won't happen in the GNOME community
> for various (mostly non-technical) reasons: First of all, nobody wants
> to present a new major release that brings nothing new, because
> everybody believes that it's necessary to satisfy the user base with
> user visible changes. Next, the developer community is split into
> various parts, where the two most important parts are the professional
> software developers and architects and the spare-time hackers and
> programmers. The former would definitly be well suited for the "great
> clean up", but the latter would most probably be frustrated by the lack
> of "new stuff to hack on" or wouldn't join at all. Another reason is the
> fact that there are big companies like Novell and RedHat, that sponsor
> quite a few of the important guys in the GNOME community, and if you
> ever worked in software business, than you'll know that companies don't
> have much interest to pay for "clean up work" usually (no matter if it's
> a good thing or not). Again, nothing new.

I should make clear, that this is - of course - my POV. Others may (and
will) have a different view on these issues.

And to forestall the next question: Yes, I know about Project Ridley.
This is indeed a chance for GTK, but it's not garantied that GTK will
benefit from it. There's also a good chance that GTK will become the
"GNOME Tool Kit", which will render it useless for many projects (most
probably including Xfce and Thunar).

Benedikt
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Re: [Thunar-dev] Gnome is trying to decrease memory usage.

[Benedikt Meurer]

Anders Aagaard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I noticed http://live.gnome.org/MemoryReduction, and I remember you
> talking about gnome (nautilus in particular)'s ridiculous memory usage. 
> I'm sure they would apriciate some constructive criticism ;), It seems
> they are also working on gtk, which would help xfce/thunar aswell :)

This is pretty old news. GLib already contains some optimizations (like
G_PARAM_STATIC_NAME, etc.). There are a lot of places throughout GTK/GDK
where you could actually save memory (also cairo comes to mind now), but
it's really not that trivial: Most of this (so called) "memory overhead"
is used to provide better performance. You could probably save a few
100k data memory for GTK/GDK in a typical application, but that's not
where most of the memory is wasted. You're better off checking the upper
layers, above GTK, first (and in the special case of glibc/linux, you
should also check the libc layer, as Thunar consumes atleast twice as
much data memory on Linux, dunno why).

Speaking of Nautilus, it's nothing special. You can apply the same
optimizations as everywhere else. For example, reduce the heap (mis)use
for temporary memory (grep'ing for g_strdup_printf() and friends will
usually give a long list of functions, where it would be better to work
on the stack, rather than the heap), reducing the number of wasted bytes
per memory allocation (for example, it would be a good idea to use a
memory chunk for classes like NautilusFile, which are instantiated very
often) and reducing the memory required for "static" library data (e.g.
Gnome-VFS comes to mind here). Gnome-VFS in particular can be seen as a
problem for long-running processes like Nautilus, a concept similar to
KIO would provide better results here. Another important point would be
to reduce the number of shared libraries that are only required by
Nautilus (for example, libeel and libnautilus-private could be linked
statically, or clean them up and merge the required parts into the other
libraries and nautilus itself).

But all these ideas are well known-facts, and by no means new to the
GNOME developers. The problem here is not a technical problem, but more
a political problem. Most of the overhead noticed with GNOME today is
caused by politics (e.g. what goes into which library, why can't we do
this like that, my d*ck is larger than yours, and the like). If people
would sit down for 6 months and do the required code auditing and then
release a clean and stable 2.14, that'd really take them forward (and
don't say that's impossible; for example the OpenBSD guys succeed
because of this concept). But this won't happen in the GNOME community
for various (mostly non-technical) reasons: First of all, nobody wants
to present a new major release that brings nothing new, because
everybody believes that it's necessary to satisfy the user base with
user visible changes. Next, the developer community is split into
various parts, where the two most important parts are the professional
software developers and architects and the spare-time hackers and
programmers. The former would definitly be well suited for the "great
clean up", but the latter would most probably be frustrated by the lack
of "new stuff to hack on" or wouldn't join at all. Another reason is the
fact that there are big companies like Novell and RedHat, that sponsor
quite a few of the important guys in the GNOME community, and if you
ever worked in software business, than you'll know that companies don't
have much interest to pay for "clean up work" usually (no matter if it's
a good thing or not). Again, nothing new.

If you want to know my personal opinion: On the toolkit level, GTK is
still far from where QT is today. It's a pleasure to work with QT in the
professional area (and the Trolltech support is very good) and I'm sure
it's also nice to work with it as part of KDE, while GTK is superior to
QT in certain X-specifc areas (like multi-display support), but it's
less funny to work with (e.g. I'm spending more time checking the actual
implementation than the API documentation, while in case of QT, it's
really seldomly necessary to look at the source). The weird thing is,
that because of this, I know a lot more about GLib/GTK now than I'll
ever know about QT. And, to explain the relation to the topic, the fact
that QT consumes (slightly) more memory than GTK is totally irrelevant,
so maybe the "memory overhead" itself isn't really the problem and the
"memory overhead" argument just shadows the real problem?

> Anders Aagaard

Benedikt
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