Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[TW Tones]

Boris,

I would love to discuss this. I am at a pivot point, sadly I suspect I 
can't build an interest and commissioning process before I must return to 
the fulltime work force but I may as well proceed. 

I am in the GMT+10 Zone so can I suggest the first meeting may be for you 
to book me? Rather than me book outside your reasonable times, and so you 
can choose and as soon as possible opportunity without me setting the time?

Regards
Tones


On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 at 17:50:13 UTC+10 bo...@fission.codes wrote:

> I got all the video stuff uploaded and managed to ACTUALLY post a mail 
> message announcing this funding after Joshua stole my thunder :P --> 
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/21yCCLI0E7s
>
> OpenCollective is a pretty great tool and very flexible. Some background: 
> Jeremy and I agreed to experiment under the "TiddlyWiki on Fission" project 
> name to not have to commit to having a fully "TiddlyWiki" branded open 
> collective all in one go -- to let us experiment a bit. The nice thing is 
> ... if there IS interest in helping to administrate this and build around 
> it, it COULD be transformed into a core TiddlyWiki funding destination.
>
> If you look at the main project page, there are some membership / backer 
> tiers there right at the top: 
> https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission
>
> The new file upload core plugin that Saq is going to work on is a separate 
> project, lower down the page, and also has its own link and can set its own 
> rewards: 
> https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission/projects/tiddlywiki-file-upload
>  
> -- It has a one-time goal, a company sponsorship tier, and we'll plan to 
> add additional goal for different kinds of backends / savers.
>
> Also, on the "Fission collective pot" -- my idea for that is that backers 
> would help determine who and what to fund. It really can be run as a 
> collective.
>
> Tones -- this perhaps doesn't quite address your needs. With the 
> marketplace that Jeremy suggested, we might surface patreons (or other 
> channels) to directly support creators and contributors. OpenCollective and 
> the community rallying might take a little longer.
>
> I've worked with a lot of open source focused creators and consultants, so 
> I'm also happy to chat with you directly. If anyone ever wants to talk 
> about anything related to open source, licensing, community contributions 
> and so on, I'm happy to connect --> pick a time in my calendar and we'll 
> have a chat https://calendly.com/borismann/global
>
> It may also be helpful to schedule a live video meeting to cover some of 
> these community topics. Let me know how else I can help!
>
> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-7 joshua@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> For example, here is Boris donating money to the TW Open Collective to 
>> get a feature funded:
>>
>>
>> https://talk.fission.codes/t/tiddlywiki-file-upload-plugin-webnative-ipfs-funded/1926
>>
>> Best,
>> Joshua Fontany
>>
>> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:09:26 PM UTC-7 Joshua Fontany wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:41:44 AM UTC-7 Ste wrote:
>>> The tiddlywiki open collective which started up/ is linked with? 
>>> Tiddlywiki on fission. 
>>> https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission
>>>
>>> I wanted to mention this as well. The OpenCollective model looks really 
>>> good for managing this type of "community pays community for projects" 
>>> work. 
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Joshua Fontany
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Boris Mann]

I got all the video stuff uploaded and managed to ACTUALLY post a mail 
message announcing this funding after Joshua stole my thunder :P --> 
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/21yCCLI0E7s

OpenCollective is a pretty great tool and very flexible. Some background: 
Jeremy and I agreed to experiment under the "TiddlyWiki on Fission" project 
name to not have to commit to having a fully "TiddlyWiki" branded open 
collective all in one go -- to let us experiment a bit. The nice thing is 
... if there IS interest in helping to administrate this and build around 
it, it COULD be transformed into a core TiddlyWiki funding destination.

If you look at the main project page, there are some membership / backer 
tiers there right at the 
top: https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission

The new file upload core plugin that Saq is going to work on is a separate 
project, lower down the page, and also has its own link and can set its own 
rewards: 
https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission/projects/tiddlywiki-file-upload
 
-- It has a one-time goal, a company sponsorship tier, and we'll plan to 
add additional goal for different kinds of backends / savers.

Also, on the "Fission collective pot" -- my idea for that is that backers 
would help determine who and what to fund. It really can be run as a 
collective.

Tones -- this perhaps doesn't quite address your needs. With the 
marketplace that Jeremy suggested, we might surface patreons (or other 
channels) to directly support creators and contributors. OpenCollective and 
the community rallying might take a little longer.

I've worked with a lot of open source focused creators and consultants, so 
I'm also happy to chat with you directly. If anyone ever wants to talk 
about anything related to open source, licensing, community contributions 
and so on, I'm happy to connect --> pick a time in my calendar and we'll 
have a chat https://calendly.com/borismann/global

It may also be helpful to schedule a live video meeting to cover some of 
these community topics. Let me know how else I can help!

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-7 joshua@gmail.com wrote:

> For example, here is Boris donating money to the TW Open Collective to get 
> a feature funded:
>
>
> https://talk.fission.codes/t/tiddlywiki-file-upload-plugin-webnative-ipfs-funded/1926
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
>
> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:09:26 PM UTC-7 Joshua Fontany wrote:
>
>> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:41:44 AM UTC-7 Ste wrote:
>> The tiddlywiki open collective which started up/ is linked with? 
>> Tiddlywiki on fission. 
>> https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission
>>
>> I wanted to mention this as well. The OpenCollective model looks really 
>> good for managing this type of "community pays community for projects" 
>> work. 
>>
>> Best,
>> Joshua Fontany
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Joshua Fontany]

For example, here is Boris donating money to the TW Open Collective to get 
a feature funded:

https://talk.fission.codes/t/tiddlywiki-file-upload-plugin-webnative-ipfs-funded/1926

Best,
Joshua Fontany

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:09:26 PM UTC-7 Joshua Fontany wrote:

> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:41:44 AM UTC-7 Ste wrote:
> The tiddlywiki open collective which started up/ is linked with? 
> Tiddlywiki on fission. 
> https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission
>
> I wanted to mention this as well. The OpenCollective model looks really 
> good for managing this type of "community pays community for projects" 
> work. 
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Joshua Fontany]

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:41:44 AM UTC-7 Ste wrote:
The tiddlywiki open collective which started up/ is linked with? Tiddlywiki 
on fission. 
https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission

I wanted to mention this as well. The OpenCollective model looks really 
good for managing this type of "community pays community for projects" 
work. 

Best,
Joshua Fontany

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Ste]

The tiddlywiki open collective which started up/ is linked with? Tiddlywiki 
on fission. 
https://opencollective.com/tiddlywiki-on-fission

On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 01:03:31 UTC+1 TW Tones wrote:

> Ste,
>
> *Is this something the fission collective pot thing could also be applied 
> to? Can we/ should we push that a bit more? *
>
> Please elaborate, I do not know to what you refer.
>
> Tones
>
> On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 00:33:16 UTC+10 Ste wrote:
>
>> Is this something the fission collective pot thing could also be applied 
>> to? Can we/ should we push that a bit more? 
>>
>> On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 09:58:59 UTC+1 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tones, R²,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the thoughtful posts.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2021, at 08:06, R²  wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems there's no "Tiddlywiki developer for hire" page on 
>>> tiddlywiki.com, which seems like a missed opportunity.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been thinking about that recently, and have a tentative plan to 
>>> build a new https://market.tiddlywiki.com/ site that would consist of 
>>> classified listings of services offered and services wanted. I’d be 
>>> inclined to focus on the “sell” side first, making a storefront for 
>>> people/organisations to offer their services.
>>>
>>> Just like links.tiddlywiki.com, the idea is that each seller would 
>>> register the URL of a TiddlyWiki that contains the details of their 
>>> offering. The system would scrape the individual sites at regular intervals 
>>> and aggregate together the information into a single site.
>>>
>>> Site visitors would see a page listing all of the sellers, and be able 
>>> to click through to see a page with the full details of a seller. We could 
>>> reuse the tagging and search from links.tiddlywiki.com.
>>>
>>> Some of the information that would be useful to bring together:
>>>
>>> * Name
>>> * Logo
>>> * Site URL
>>> * Services offered (again, we’d need to evolve a set of standard tags 
>>> for this)
>>> * Timezone
>>> * Languages spoken/written
>>> * Areas of specialisation
>>> * Links to past work
>>> * Case studies
>>> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki core
>>> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki discussion 
>>> forums
>>> * Perhaps a country of operations for legal purposes
>>>
>>> I think we could get something along those lines up and running fairly 
>>> quickly, and then could evolve it be something more dynamic that could 
>>> incorporate user feedback.
>>>
>>> The Drupal project maintains a marketplace site along the lines I’m 
>>> describing:
>>>
>>> https://www.drupal.org/drupal-services
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Jeremy.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[TW Tones]

Ste,

*Is this something the fission collective pot thing could also be applied 
to? Can we/ should we push that a bit more? *

Please elaborate, I do not know to what you refer.

Tones

On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 00:33:16 UTC+10 Ste wrote:

> Is this something the fission collective pot thing could also be applied 
> to? Can we/ should we push that a bit more? 
>
> On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 09:58:59 UTC+1 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Tones, R²,
>>
>> Thanks for the thoughtful posts.
>>
>>
>> On 20 May 2021, at 08:06, R²  wrote:
>>
>> It seems there's no "Tiddlywiki developer for hire" page on 
>> tiddlywiki.com, which seems like a missed opportunity.
>>
>>
>> I have been thinking about that recently, and have a tentative plan to 
>> build a new https://market.tiddlywiki.com/ site that would consist of 
>> classified listings of services offered and services wanted. I’d be 
>> inclined to focus on the “sell” side first, making a storefront for 
>> people/organisations to offer their services.
>>
>> Just like links.tiddlywiki.com, the idea is that each seller would 
>> register the URL of a TiddlyWiki that contains the details of their 
>> offering. The system would scrape the individual sites at regular intervals 
>> and aggregate together the information into a single site.
>>
>> Site visitors would see a page listing all of the sellers, and be able to 
>> click through to see a page with the full details of a seller. We could 
>> reuse the tagging and search from links.tiddlywiki.com.
>>
>> Some of the information that would be useful to bring together:
>>
>> * Name
>> * Logo
>> * Site URL
>> * Services offered (again, we’d need to evolve a set of standard tags for 
>> this)
>> * Timezone
>> * Languages spoken/written
>> * Areas of specialisation
>> * Links to past work
>> * Case studies
>> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki core
>> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki discussion 
>> forums
>> * Perhaps a country of operations for legal purposes
>>
>> I think we could get something along those lines up and running fairly 
>> quickly, and then could evolve it be something more dynamic that could 
>> incorporate user feedback.
>>
>> The Drupal project maintains a marketplace site along the lines I’m 
>> describing:
>>
>> https://www.drupal.org/drupal-services
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy.
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Ste]

Is this something the fission collective pot thing could also be applied 
to? Can we/ should we push that a bit more? 

On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 09:58:59 UTC+1 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Tones, R²,
>
> Thanks for the thoughtful posts.
>
>
> On 20 May 2021, at 08:06, R²  wrote:
>
> It seems there's no "Tiddlywiki developer for hire" page on tiddlywiki.com, 
> which seems like a missed opportunity.
>
>
> I have been thinking about that recently, and have a tentative plan to 
> build a new https://market.tiddlywiki.com/ site that would consist of 
> classified listings of services offered and services wanted. I’d be 
> inclined to focus on the “sell” side first, making a storefront for 
> people/organisations to offer their services.
>
> Just like links.tiddlywiki.com, the idea is that each seller would 
> register the URL of a TiddlyWiki that contains the details of their 
> offering. The system would scrape the individual sites at regular intervals 
> and aggregate together the information into a single site.
>
> Site visitors would see a page listing all of the sellers, and be able to 
> click through to see a page with the full details of a seller. We could 
> reuse the tagging and search from links.tiddlywiki.com.
>
> Some of the information that would be useful to bring together:
>
> * Name
> * Logo
> * Site URL
> * Services offered (again, we’d need to evolve a set of standard tags for 
> this)
> * Timezone
> * Languages spoken/written
> * Areas of specialisation
> * Links to past work
> * Case studies
> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki core
> * Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki discussion 
> forums
> * Perhaps a country of operations for legal purposes
>
> I think we could get something along those lines up and running fairly 
> quickly, and then could evolve it be something more dynamic that could 
> incorporate user feedback.
>
> The Drupal project maintains a marketplace site along the lines I’m 
> describing:
>
> https://www.drupal.org/drupal-services
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>

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Re: [tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tones, R²,

Thanks for the thoughtful posts.

> On 20 May 2021, at 08:06, R²  wrote:
> 
> It seems there's no "Tiddlywiki developer for hire" page on tiddlywiki.com 
> , which seems like a missed opportunity.

I have been thinking about that recently, and have a tentative plan to build a 
new https://market.tiddlywiki.com/  site that 
would consist of classified listings of services offered and services wanted. 
I’d be inclined to focus on the “sell” side first, making a storefront for 
people/organisations to offer their services.

Just like links.tiddlywiki.com , the idea is that 
each seller would register the URL of a TiddlyWiki that contains the details of 
their offering. The system would scrape the individual sites at regular 
intervals and aggregate together the information into a single site.

Site visitors would see a page listing all of the sellers, and be able to click 
through to see a page with the full details of a seller. We could reuse the 
tagging and search from links.tiddlywiki.com .

Some of the information that would be useful to bring together:

* Name
* Logo
* Site URL
* Services offered (again, we’d need to evolve a set of standard tags for this)
* Timezone
* Languages spoken/written
* Areas of specialisation
* Links to past work
* Case studies
* Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki core
* Some measure of the contributions made to the TiddlyWiki discussion forums
* Perhaps a country of operations for legal purposes

I think we could get something along those lines up and running fairly quickly, 
and then could evolve it be something more dynamic that could incorporate user 
feedback.

The Drupal project maintains a marketplace site along the lines I’m describing:

https://www.drupal.org/drupal-services 

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[tw5] [RFC] Sponsored development of tiddlywiki tools and solutions?

[TW Tones]

Folks,

A lot of contributors here are deserving of reward for their efforts. As a 
result I do make one off or continuing patreon donations to a few in our 
community.

The discussion of money can be difficult but I would like to hear your 
considered thoughts.

In my own circumstances I am currently unemployed, If I take a full time 
job, I will have far less time for TiddlyWiki, although I hope to use it in 
my job.

As you may be aware I already try and contribute a lot to the community and 
as a result of developing  super user or designer skills I have designed 
many tools and features for tiddlywiki. Basically I have a library of many 
dozens of tools, however I have not being able to justify the time to 
polish and publish them. Many of my tools are designed to fill gaps that 
arise, as I develop larger tiddlywiki solutions, mostly for my self.

What I would like your feedback on both as users and developers is the 
possibility of some of us (especially myself) being able to attract some 
sponsorship to get the job done. Here are my thoughts;

   - Provide a patreon or similar channel for regular donations to sponsor 
   my time producing such open source solutions.
   - Provide a requests channel, so people can submit a request for a 
   solution.
   - Provide a list of tools you can choose to sponsor for earlier release 
   through donations which also act as an upvote.
   - Finally offer a private method to commission work.

Given my belief in Open source I  would continue to contribute much for 
free, especially contributions to the forums. Any work funded by 
sponsorship or donations would be made freely available to the community. 
Only specific and private commissions may not, although components may be.

*Some possible issues*
One issue for me is even if people value such a service to request or bring 
forward particular solutions, ultimately I will still need to depend on the 
generosity of others when I need help in the forums. I do still have a few 
areas of weakness. Whilst I can see circumstances when donations may permit 
me to commission others I don't expect this would be so common, unless my 
earnings are sufficient to cover this. Perhaps I can grant contributors 
credit in my own "shop" for thanks.

Equity for people such as Jeremy and other developers needs to be 
addressed. Can we find a way to encourage more contributions to those such 
as Jeremy, Mario and Eric without the community becoming an "only if funded 
model". Of course if people are in a position to give their time freely we 
want to encourage this to continue.

If I am going to do this I need to start in a hurry, so I do not want to 
add anything unnecessary to the "critical path" but perhaps we could have a 
shared "shop".

Yours with trepidation and sincerity.
Tones

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