[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

Woah, that'll take a minute to get through, but looks awesome! Thank you.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 6:50:03 AM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:

> Jack,
>
> I have attempted to document it all, see here 
> , for what I 
> wish I had when new to TW5
>
> Also time handling has the [UTC] flag where needed. See 
> <>
> <>
>
> Tones
>
> On Monday, 15 March 2021 at 00:38:56 UTC+11 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>
>> Soren, this is fantastic, thank you!
>>
>> I must say that your recent video on YouTube has advanced my 
>> understanding of TiddlyWiki faster and farther than several years of 
>> muddling about on my own with docs and scattered resources. I'm very much 
>> looking forward to Grok TiddlyWiki.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:38:09 AM UTC-4 Soren Bjornstad wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-6 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>>>
 Ah, so *single* curly braces, thanks! 

 I'm not sure I'll ever completely understand when to use which 
 variation. :)

>>>
>>> It's probably simpler than you think, there's just currently nowhere 
>>> that summarizes it in an understandable form:
>>>
>>>- [[square brackets]] for links / to refer to the name of a tiddler
>>>- <> to get the value of variables or macros
>>>- {{curly braces}} to get the value of fields or tiddlers
>>>
>>> Inside a filter expression, you use just *one* of each. Anywhere else, 
>>> you use two.
>>>
>>> Macros add slight additional wrinkles to the <>:
>>>
>>>- Inside macros, <<__angle brackets with underscores__>> and $dollar 
>>>signs$ both refer to a macro parameter, but the dollar signs use text 
>>>substitution (understanding when to use text substitution and when not 
>>> to 
>>>is the only hard part).
>>>- Inside macros, <> and $(parenthesized dollar 
>>>signs)$ both refer to a variable, but the dollar signs use text 
>>>substitution.
>>>
>>> And last, {{{ triple curly braces }}} select one or more tiddlers using 
>>> a filter, then transclude them – so you can think of it as the “super” or 
>>> “extra powerful” version of normal double-brace transclusion, since it has 
>>> one extra brace.
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[TW Tones]

Jack,

I have attempted to document it all, see here 
, for what I wish 
I had when new to TW5

Also time handling has the [UTC] flag where needed. See 
<>
<>

Tones

On Monday, 15 March 2021 at 00:38:56 UTC+11 ja...@baty.net wrote:

> Soren, this is fantastic, thank you!
>
> I must say that your recent video on YouTube has advanced my understanding 
> of TiddlyWiki faster and farther than several years of muddling about on my 
> own with docs and scattered resources. I'm very much looking forward 
> to Grok TiddlyWiki.
>
> Jack
>
> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:38:09 AM UTC-4 Soren Bjornstad wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-6 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, so *single* curly braces, thanks! 
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I'll ever completely understand when to use which 
>>> variation. :)
>>>
>>
>> It's probably simpler than you think, there's just currently nowhere that 
>> summarizes it in an understandable form:
>>
>>- [[square brackets]] for links / to refer to the name of a tiddler
>>- <> to get the value of variables or macros
>>- {{curly braces}} to get the value of fields or tiddlers
>>
>> Inside a filter expression, you use just *one* of each. Anywhere else, 
>> you use two.
>>
>> Macros add slight additional wrinkles to the <>:
>>
>>- Inside macros, <<__angle brackets with underscores__>> and $dollar 
>>signs$ both refer to a macro parameter, but the dollar signs use text 
>>substitution (understanding when to use text substitution and when not to 
>>is the only hard part).
>>- Inside macros, <> and $(parenthesized dollar 
>>signs)$ both refer to a variable, but the dollar signs use text 
>>substitution.
>>
>> And last, {{{ triple curly braces }}} select one or more tiddlers using a 
>> filter, then transclude them – so you can think of it as the “super” or 
>> “extra powerful” version of normal double-brace transclusion, since it has 
>> one extra brace.
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

Soren, this is fantastic, thank you!

I must say that your recent video on YouTube has advanced my understanding 
of TiddlyWiki faster and farther than several years of muddling about on my 
own with docs and scattered resources. I'm very much looking forward 
to Grok TiddlyWiki.

Jack

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:38:09 AM UTC-4 Soren Bjornstad wrote:

> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-6 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>
>> Ah, so *single* curly braces, thanks! 
>>
>> I'm not sure I'll ever completely understand when to use which variation. 
>> :)
>>
>
> It's probably simpler than you think, there's just currently nowhere that 
> summarizes it in an understandable form:
>
>- [[square brackets]] for links / to refer to the name of a tiddler
>- <> to get the value of variables or macros
>- {{curly braces}} to get the value of fields or tiddlers
>
> Inside a filter expression, you use just *one* of each. Anywhere else, 
> you use two.
>
> Macros add slight additional wrinkles to the <>:
>
>- Inside macros, <<__angle brackets with underscores__>> and $dollar 
>signs$ both refer to a macro parameter, but the dollar signs use text 
>substitution (understanding when to use text substitution and when not to 
>is the only hard part).
>- Inside macros, <> and $(parenthesized dollar signs)$ 
>both refer to a variable, but the dollar signs use text substitution.
>
> And last, {{{ triple curly braces }}} select one or more tiddlers using a 
> filter, then transclude them – so you can think of it as the “super” or 
> “extra powerful” version of normal double-brace transclusion, since it has 
> one extra brace.
>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Soren Bjornstad]

On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-6 ja...@baty.net wrote:

> Ah, so *single* curly braces, thanks! 
>
> I'm not sure I'll ever completely understand when to use which variation. 
> :)
>

It's probably simpler than you think, there's just currently nowhere that 
summarizes it in an understandable form:

   - [[square brackets]] for links / to refer to the name of a tiddler
   - <> to get the value of variables or macros
   - {{curly braces}} to get the value of fields or tiddlers

Inside a filter expression, you use just *one* of each. Anywhere else, you 
use two.

Macros add slight additional wrinkles to the <>:

   - Inside macros, <<__angle brackets with underscores__>> and $dollar 
   signs$ both refer to a macro parameter, but the dollar signs use text 
   substitution (understanding when to use text substitution and when not to 
   is the only hard part).
   - Inside macros, <> and $(parenthesized dollar signs)$ 
   both refer to a variable, but the dollar signs use text substitution.

And last, {{{ triple curly braces }}} select one or more tiddlers using a 
filter, then transclude them – so you can think of it as the “super” or 
“extra powerful” version of normal double-brace transclusion, since it has 
one extra brace.

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

Ah, so *single* curly braces, thanks! 

I'm not sure I'll ever completely understand when to use which variation. :)

On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:22:10 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

> Oh, that's an easier question:
>
> <>
>
> The sameday filter does understand timezones and "sameday", but it doesn't 
> understand about hard-coded values, despite what the documentation says. So 
> it will use your local time to match sameday with an existing tiddler. But 
> not if you do your own (e.g. 20210313)
>
> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 6:56:13 AM UTC-8 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>
>> Well sorry, I don't actually want <>. I want the created date of the 
>> current tiddler, but I think the overall question is the same, which is, 
>> how do I show a list of tiddlers created on the same day (date) as the 
>> current tiddler. This will eventually be a macro, possibly.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still tinkering with this. 
>>>
>>> Thanks to Mark for suggesting adding the Timezone to the sameday filter. 
>>> That works, but I can't find it documented anywhere. On the DateFormat 
>>> page  "TZD" is mentioned as 
>>> Timezone format option but in use it renders as "-5:00" not "05". I've 
>>> found that only "05" works when used in the sameday operator, e.g.:
>>>
>>> <>
>>>
>>> This works (by works I mean that sameday lists tiddlers created on the, 
>>> er, same day).
>>>
>>> I'm obviously not capable of understanding documentation, because the 
>>> only way I can find to show a list of tiddlers created on the same day as 
>>> the current tiddler is something like this:
>>>
>>> <$set name="thedate" value=<>>
>>> <>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Note the hardcoded "05". Also, this seems somewhat convoluted. There 
>>> *must* be a better way to just include the MMDD formated date as 
>>> part of the filter operator without setting a variable, right? And it's 
>>> probably something obvious and simple that I've overlooked. I get confused 
>>> around "<>" vs "$foo$" vs "$(foo)$" vs "[[foo]]" and I cannot figure 
>>> out how to just put the "now 0MMDD" bit right in the filter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 2:36:56 PM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:
>>>
 I'll try the offset, thanks. I'd be happy with a string match on 
 "20210302*", too though, as that's always the day I'm looking for. Half 
 the 
 reason I got out of development was to avoid dealing with timezones :)

 On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 1:18:08 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

> If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the 
> results you want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use
>
> sameday:created[2021030205]
>
> If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you 
> live in Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:
>
> sameday:created[2021030119]
>
>
>>  
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Oh, that's an easier question:

<>

The sameday filter does understand timezones and "sameday", but it doesn't 
understand about hard-coded values, despite what the documentation says. So 
it will use your local time to match sameday with an existing tiddler. But 
not if you do your own (e.g. 20210313)

On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 6:56:13 AM UTC-8 ja...@baty.net wrote:

> Well sorry, I don't actually want <>. I want the created date of the 
> current tiddler, but I think the overall question is the same, which is, 
> how do I show a list of tiddlers created on the same day (date) as the 
> current tiddler. This will eventually be a macro, possibly.
>
>
> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:
>
>> I'm still tinkering with this. 
>>
>> Thanks to Mark for suggesting adding the Timezone to the sameday filter. 
>> That works, but I can't find it documented anywhere. On the DateFormat 
>> page  "TZD" is mentioned as Timezone 
>> format option but in use it renders as "-5:00" not "05". I've found that 
>> only "05" works when used in the sameday operator, e.g.:
>>
>> <>
>>
>> This works (by works I mean that sameday lists tiddlers created on the, 
>> er, same day).
>>
>> I'm obviously not capable of understanding documentation, because the 
>> only way I can find to show a list of tiddlers created on the same day as 
>> the current tiddler is something like this:
>>
>> <$set name="thedate" value=<>>
>> <>
>> 
>>
>> Note the hardcoded "05". Also, this seems somewhat convoluted. There 
>> *must* be a better way to just include the MMDD formated date as 
>> part of the filter operator without setting a variable, right? And it's 
>> probably something obvious and simple that I've overlooked. I get confused 
>> around "<>" vs "$foo$" vs "$(foo)$" vs "[[foo]]" and I cannot figure 
>> out how to just put the "now 0MMDD" bit right in the filter.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 2:36:56 PM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:
>>
>>> I'll try the offset, thanks. I'd be happy with a string match on 
>>> "20210302*", too though, as that's always the day I'm looking for. Half the 
>>> reason I got out of development was to avoid dealing with timezones :)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 1:18:08 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:
>>>
 If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the results 
 you want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use

 sameday:created[2021030205]

 If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you 
 live in Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:

 sameday:created[2021030119]


>  
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

Well sorry, I don't actually want <>. I want the created date of the 
current tiddler, but I think the overall question is the same, which is, 
how do I show a list of tiddlers created on the same day (date) as the 
current tiddler. This will eventually be a macro, possibly.


On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:

> I'm still tinkering with this. 
>
> Thanks to Mark for suggesting adding the Timezone to the sameday filter. 
> That works, but I can't find it documented anywhere. On the DateFormat 
> page  "TZD" is mentioned as Timezone 
> format option but in use it renders as "-5:00" not "05". I've found that 
> only "05" works when used in the sameday operator, e.g.:
>
> <>
>
> This works (by works I mean that sameday lists tiddlers created on the, 
> er, same day).
>
> I'm obviously not capable of understanding documentation, because the only 
> way I can find to show a list of tiddlers created on the same day as the 
> current tiddler is something like this:
>
> <$set name="thedate" value=<>>
> <>
> 
>
> Note the hardcoded "05". Also, this seems somewhat convoluted. There 
> *must* be a better way to just include the MMDD formated date as part 
> of the filter operator without setting a variable, right? And it's probably 
> something obvious and simple that I've overlooked. I get confused around 
> "<>" vs "$foo$" vs "$(foo)$" vs "[[foo]]" and I cannot figure out how 
> to just put the "now 0MMDD" bit right in the filter.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 2:36:56 PM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:
>
>> I'll try the offset, thanks. I'd be happy with a string match on 
>> "20210302*", too though, as that's always the day I'm looking for. Half the 
>> reason I got out of development was to avoid dealing with timezones :)
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 1:18:08 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>> If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the results 
>>> you want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use
>>>
>>> sameday:created[2021030205]
>>>
>>> If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you live 
>>> in Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:
>>>
>>> sameday:created[2021030119]
>>>
>>>
  
>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

I'm still tinkering with this. 

Thanks to Mark for suggesting adding the Timezone to the sameday filter. 
That works, but I can't find it documented anywhere. On the DateFormat page 
 "TZD" is mentioned as Timezone format 
option but in use it renders as "-5:00" not "05". I've found that only "05" 
works when used in the sameday operator, e.g.:

<>

This works (by works I mean that sameday lists tiddlers created on the, er, 
same day).

I'm obviously not capable of understanding documentation, because the only 
way I can find to show a list of tiddlers created on the same day as the 
current tiddler is something like this:

<$set name="thedate" value=<>>
<>


Note the hardcoded "05". Also, this seems somewhat convoluted. There *must* be 
a better way to just include the MMDD formated date as part of the 
filter operator without setting a variable, right? And it's probably 
something obvious and simple that I've overlooked. I get confused around 
"<>" vs "$foo$" vs "$(foo)$" vs "[[foo]]" and I cannot figure out how 
to just put the "now 0MMDD" bit right in the filter.



On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 2:36:56 PM UTC-5 Jack Baty wrote:

> I'll try the offset, thanks. I'd be happy with a string match on 
> "20210302*", too though, as that's always the day I'm looking for. Half the 
> reason I got out of development was to avoid dealing with timezones :)
>
> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 1:18:08 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the results 
>> you want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use
>>
>> sameday:created[2021030205]
>>
>> If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you live 
>> in Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:
>>
>> sameday:created[2021030119]
>>
>>
>>>  

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

[Jack Baty]

I'll try the offset, thanks. I'd be happy with a string match on 
"20210302*", too though, as that's always the day I'm looking for. Half the 
reason I got out of development was to avoid dealing with timezones :)

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 1:18:08 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

> If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the results 
> you want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use
>
> sameday:created[2021030205]
>
> If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you live 
> in Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:
>
> sameday:created[2021030119]
>
> It would be really great if there was a "local" suffix so you could 
> specify the local time, which is going to make the most sense to anyone 
> living far from the international date line. But I think that the idea was 
> that you would be saying "sameday" as this other tiddler, which will have 
> the appropriate comparison date stamp.
>
> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:11:31 AM UTC-8 ja...@baty.net wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing this is related to timezone/display issues I've seen 
>> mentioned elsewhere, but there's something I don't understand about the 
>> `sameday` operator.
>>
>> Here's the filter I'm working on:
>>
>> ```
>> <$list filter="[sameday:created[20210302]!is[system]!tag[Journal]]" >
>> {{||$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/body}}
>> 
>> ```
>>
>> I would expect to see tiddlers I created on 2021-03-02 but I only see 
>> those I created on 2021-03-01.
>>
>> I'm trying to create a "daily" tiddler that simply transcludes the body 
>> of all other tiddlers I created that same day. I can cheat and use 
>> *tomorrow's* date in the filter but that feels fragile and that one day 
>> TiddlyWiki's date handling will change and they'll all show the wrong 
>> tiddlers.
>>
>> Related, is there a way to substitute the created date of the parent 
>> tiddler rather than hardcode it? Be nice to not need to have to manually 
>> enter the date each time.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: When "sameday" seems to mean "yesterday"

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

If you add your offset to the time, then I think you'll get the results you 
want. That is, if you're in Lima (utc -5), you might use

sameday:created[2021030205]

If you live in the other direction, then the math is harder. If you live in 
Yekaterinburg (utc +5), then I assume you would have to use:

sameday:created[2021030119]

It would be really great if there was a "local" suffix so you could specify 
the local time, which is going to make the most sense to anyone living far 
from the international date line. But I think that the idea was that you 
would be saying "sameday" as this other tiddler, which will have the 
appropriate comparison date stamp.

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:11:31 AM UTC-8 ja...@baty.net wrote:

> I'm guessing this is related to timezone/display issues I've seen 
> mentioned elsewhere, but there's something I don't understand about the 
> `sameday` operator.
>
> Here's the filter I'm working on:
>
> ```
> <$list filter="[sameday:created[20210302]!is[system]!tag[Journal]]" >
> {{||$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/body}}
> 
> ```
>
> I would expect to see tiddlers I created on 2021-03-02 but I only see 
> those I created on 2021-03-01.
>
> I'm trying to create a "daily" tiddler that simply transcludes the body of 
> all other tiddlers I created that same day. I can cheat and use 
> *tomorrow's* date in the filter but that feels fragile and that one day 
> TiddlyWiki's date handling will change and they'll all show the wrong 
> tiddlers.
>
> Related, is there a way to substitute the created date of the parent 
> tiddler rather than hardcode it? Be nice to not need to have to manually 
> enter the date each time.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack
>
>

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