Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[PMario]

On Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 2:45:28 AM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Without a staging area, can you have relative paths to image files? That 
> seems like a pretty important consideration.
>

I didn't test that. ... but if they are part of the dat:// system the 
should be relative paths, like any other web resource. 

-m

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Without a staging area, can you have relative paths to image files? That 
seems like a pretty important consideration.

-- Mark

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 5:16:19 PM UTC-8, PMario wrote:
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 1:00:06 AM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
>> I'm not a huge fan of the staging area; I remember Beaker beforehand, and 
>> I preferred the simplicity.
>>
>
> For me "staging area" is just a different name for "any directory on your 
> harddisk", which is simple.
>  
>
>> The scheme I'm hoping we can use instead is to have a separate, private 
>> drafts site and a published public site. The "publish" operation would be 
>> performed by the author opening the public site and "pulling” the changes 
>> from their private site.
>>
>
> For me private site is a different name for "dat store, without the 
> possibility to see your stuff as a real file" ... 
>
> If I would want to hide my content somewhere on the harddisk, I could use 
> the browser internal storage mechanisms. Browser storage can be synced 
> across devices. The only problem is, we don't trust it, because the stuff 
> is binary encoded and can't be easily accessed with a file explorer and 
> text editors. ... (and you can't trust it by design, because of automatic 
> data removal mechanisms.)
>
> At the moment I'm more interested in the possibility to use "my browser of 
> choice" with DAT. DAT-Desktop can be compiled 
>  on windows since 
> early December. The desktop program and the CLI allow you to transparently 
> share folders. Similar to dropbox. 
>
> I may have a closer look at the beaker API again, after 0.8 is out. ... 
>
> -m
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[PMario]

On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 1:00:06 AM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

> I'm not a huge fan of the staging area; I remember Beaker beforehand, and 
> I preferred the simplicity.
>

For me "staging area" is just a different name for "any directory on your 
harddisk", which is simple.
 

> The scheme I'm hoping we can use instead is to have a separate, private 
> drafts site and a published public site. The "publish" operation would be 
> performed by the author opening the public site and "pulling” the changes 
> from their private site.
>

For me private site is a different name for "dat store, without the 
possibility to see your stuff as a real file" ... 

If I would want to hide my content somewhere on the harddisk, I could use 
the browser internal storage mechanisms. Browser storage can be synced 
across devices. The only problem is, we don't trust it, because the stuff 
is binary encoded and can't be easily accessed with a file explorer and 
text editors. ... (and you can't trust it by design, because of automatic 
data removal mechanisms.)

At the moment I'm more interested in the possibility to use "my browser of 
choice" with DAT. DAT-Desktop can be compiled 
 on windows since 
early December. The desktop program and the CLI allow you to transparently 
share folders. Similar to dropbox. 

I may have a closer look at the beaker API again, after 0.8 is out. ... 

-m

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mario

> In my opinion, single file TWs, with autosave switched off, are still a good 
> fit, for beaker. ... but the project, that I had in mind, IMO doesn't make 
> much sense without a staging area. I want to brainstorm -> refactor -> 
> iterate locally and when the stuff is good enough to be published, I want to 
> "commit" it. 

I'm not a huge fan of the staging area; I remember Beaker beforehand, and I 
preferred the simplicity.

The scheme I'm hoping we can use instead is to have a separate, private drafts 
site and a published public site. The "publish" operation would be performed by 
the author opening the public site and "pulling” the changes from their private 
site.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> have fun!
> mario
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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[stefct4]

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:53:16 PM UTC+1, ste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> You can either choose "Download as .zip" in the dropdown menu in the URL 
> bar
>

However, this option only seems to work properly if you approve all 
unpublished changes to your TiddlyWiki first (in the library). Otherwise 
you'll end up downloading an outdated version of your wiki.

Cheers,

Stef 

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[stefct4]

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:33:13 PM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> How do you get it out for export? I assume it's something simple? Is there 
> a way to wipe the memory clean?
>
>
You can either choose "Download as .zip" in the dropdown menu in the URL 
bar, or you can visit your TiddlyWiki in the Beaker library and click "Open 
folder" to find it on your local hard disk.

However, I've read somewhere that this feature is going to vanish in a 
later release of Beaker Browser. Is this true?

~Stef 

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Setting up TiddlyWiki within it is a matter of pressing the "New Site” 
button and then dragging and dropping your TiddlyWiki index.html; after 
that, saving is just like TiddlyFox.

How do you get it out for export? I assume it's something simple? Is there 
a way to wipe the memory clean?

Still doesn't address saving where the options are the worse -- tablets and 
phones.

Thanks!
Mark

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[Birthe C]

Hi Joshia,

I would think that it is rather normal to be curious wanting to get the 
most out of tiddlywiki, and since tiddlywiki is used in a browser, that 
makes browsers interesting for a tiddlywiki user.

A normal end user will want to try something if it is easy enough to do it, 
at least I think.
This group and all the help we get here from nice people makes it possible 
to get to know and try more, than at least I would do on my own.

I guess you will not replace twitter with fritter anytime soon?

Birthe


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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

> I find it hard to see how Beaker Browser has scope as anything relevant for a 
> "normal end user".

You've said that before, and I don't really understand why. Installing/updating 
Beaker is no harder than installing/updating Firefox. Setting up TiddlyWiki 
within it is a matter of pressing the "New Site” button and then dragging and 
dropping your TiddlyWiki index.html; after that, saving is just like TiddlyFox.

The peer to peer stuff might be hard to get your head around, but as I've 
pointed out before it is entirely optional.

Much more to the point is the value in working together with other open source 
communities. Mozilla has never cared about TiddlyWiki, but I'm pretty sure the 
makers of Beaker do care about TiddlyWiki — they've graciously asked my 
opinions and accepted my feedback in the past.

> Maybe we could discuss what "normal" means in TW.Land a bit more :-)

Why? I've no idea what you're getting at here. Is it just that you'd like 
TiddlyWiki to be easier to use? We all would, but as we've discussed endlessly 
there's lots of tradeoffs. If you want to work offline, with total privacy, 
then that comes at a cost. If you want things to just work, then use an online 
TiddlyWiki. There's absolutely no mystery about how to achieve the ease of use 
that you've argued for elsewhere. Why would you judge any other solution, with 
different tradeoffs, on whether it was as easy to use as an online service?

> I'm semi-serious. It looks a bit of a stretch IMO.

I hope you've tried using TiddlyWiki on Beaker Browser. If you're just shooting 
the breeze and saying that some of the discussion around Beaker has looked 
complicated, then perhaps there's a possibility that these comments will just 
have the effect of putting people off trying it for themselves, which would be 
a great shame.

Best wishes

Jeremy




> Best wishes
> Josiah
> 
> 
> Birthe C wrote:
>> 
>> ... That was the part that got me into thinking, it would make it difficult 
>> to use for normal end users.
> 
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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy & Berthe

I find it hard to see how Beaker Browser has scope as anything relevant for 
a "normal end user".

Maybe we could discuss what "normal" means in TW.Land a bit more :-)

I'm semi-serious. It looks a bit of a stretch IMO.

Best wishes
Josiah


Birthe C wrote:
>
> ... That was the part that got me into thinking, it would make it 
> difficult to use for normal end users.
>

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[Birthe C]

Thank you Jeremy,

I really hope so. Pmario wrote they would remove the staging area without 
plans for replacement. That was the part that got me into thinking, it 
would make it difficult to use for normal end users.


Birthe

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Re: [tw] Re: "Forkeable" TiddlyWiki for Beaker Browser?

[Jeremy Ruston]

As I understand it, Mario is just pointing out that the development of Beaker 
Browser is moving fast. The implication is just that we may need to update our 
saver module accordingly, but there’s no reason to believe that we will be 
unable to run TiddlyWiki on Beaker in the future. Judging by conversations with 
Paul Frazee (one of the founders of the project), supporting JS apps that run 
in the browser like TiddlyWiki is a core goal of Beaker Browser.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 21 Dec 2017, at 18:59, Birthe C  wrote:
> 
> The idea i good but for how long? 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/8Iso0WoFVMY/62aSH3HNCwAJ 
> 
> 
> 
> Birthe
> 
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