Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-18 Thread Matthew Lauber 
Sorry I wasn't available to be part of this discussion!  There's a few 
things I wish I would have been able to comment on.  I've done a bit of 
work getting an automated tiddlywiki plugin library on github pages using 
travis-ci.  Travis is free for open source projects, and can build on 
commits.  My overall script is pretty simple, and it would be pretty simple 
in my opinion to modify my script to compile the actual tiddlywiki5 
homepage, and publish it to gh-pages.  

The script is available 
at https://github.com/mklauber/tw5-plugins-template/blob/master/.travis.yml 
and it may be something worth looking into.  If people (Jeremy) are 
interested, I can look into trying to setup an automated build on a fork of 
the TiddlyWiki5 repo.  




On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 8:23:05 AM UTC-5, PMario wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 4:04:41 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A
>>
>
> @Jeremy,
>
> Annotations, that you can copy to youtube. 
>
> 00:00:00 Intro: rtl: Andreas, Evan, Jeremy, Mario, 01:16:00 Abraham
> 00:03:07 Mario about: file-backups AddOn 
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/file-backups/ 00:03:16 
> Mario about: TW Development Environment Video Series: 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuiC_HFhI4OxtThoQf92ws875R9zgNGSd 
> 00:04:30 Jeremy - GitHub housekeeping, Plans to enable community access to 
> the tiddlywiki5 repo. 
> 00:07:57 Mario - New Organisation at github? -> no should be included into 
> tiddlywiki Org 
> 00:08:09 .. what happens to TiddlyWiki-Classic? -> no should be part of 
> the "new build process" too! 
> 00:09:37 .. Where is tiddlywiki.com hosted atm? https is provided by 
> cloudflare 
> 00:11:20 Jeremy - Proposes that we move tiddlywiki.com -> tiddlywiki.org 
> .. dot-com should be reserved for commercial activity
> 00:13:55 .. tiddlywiki.org should be "under construction" while we move 
> ... URL compatibility is important 
> 00:15:20 Mario - github now allows gh-pages branch and /docs subdirectory. 
> 00:16:55 Evan - discussion about "repo - links" ... sub-repo
> 00:18:47 Mario - about the existing tiddlywiki organization and 
> "housekeeping we have to do" 
> 00:21:00 Jeremy - about a possible roadmap for the switch .. 
> 00:21:30 ... Jeremy's wifi is broken. 
> 00:21:43 Mario about the existing structure. ... screen share can't be 
> seen at the hangout sorry! 
> 00:25:55 Jeremy is back. -- and should be cloned :) 
> 00:26:33 Mario - about new workflow possibilities 
> 00:27:55 Mario - about loosing documentation contributors, because of the 
> existing hurdles. 
> 00:28:15 Jeremy - about test - suites ... 
> 00:29:30 .. contributing should be easy ... about tests 
> 00:30:55 .. about automated headless browser testing 
> 00:32:35 Evan - about: How we can help new developers ... 
> 00:33:50 Jeremy - about the roadmap - about 3rd party plugin-librarys 
> 00:34:47 .. 2 proposals: 1st improve documentation workflow, 2nd make 
> plugin discovery easier 
> 00:37:37 .. there should be something like a "Tips-section" in the 
> community created docs. .. Like a cook-book 
> 00:38:55 .. about xememex.com .. multi user TW in the cloud 
> 00:39:42 .. may be use google forms for end-user submissions 
> 00:41:30 Mario - about a possible deploy workflow 
> 00:42:40 Evan - question - do we have a "diff-match-patch" plugin ? 
> 00:43:30 Mario - has a "diff-match-patch" plugin, which isn't public atm. 
> 00:45:25 Jeremy - Interesting experiments with the core "modularity" 
> 00:47:15 .. About the next steps .. reverence docs shoudl be a plugin .. 
> 00:49:15 Mario .. 3rd party plugin libraries should be easy to create 
> 00:52:19 .. about security concerns, ... discussion about a "mechanism of 
> trust" 
> 00:54:30 Evan .. about possible performance improvements. 
> 00:56:08 .. screen share .. simple animation, modifying the tiddler store, 
> which triggers the refresh .. 
> 00:58:21 .. shows dev profile data .. hasTag is uses most of the time .. 
> 01:02:00 Jeremy - about "low level" optimizations .. 
> 01:04:00 .. the hasTag stuff is interesting .. 
> 01:06:00 Evan .. with "Recent" tab open. about his observations .. 
> 01:10:05 .. about "low hanging fruits" 
> 01:11:34 .. Harmonic lattice demo 
> 01:15:15 .. shows the code 
> 01:16:00 Intro - Abraham 
> 01:19:20 Evan - more general thoughts. 
> 01:21:34 .. about "selective variable" refresh 
> 01:24:30 Jeremy - about some of BJs optimizations 
> 01:25:30 Evan - shows code .. discussion 
> 01:27:20 .. about "several/stacked" tiddler stores 
> 01:30:47 Mario - about tests with a modified PageTemplate ... TOC 
> improvements possible
> 01:34:45 Jeremy - about the new dynaview-plugin 
> 01:37:35 .. about performance perception by the user .. 
> 01:38:33 Evan - about performance changes as things scale .. 
> 01:42:05 Mario - posted a link: 
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/12/actual-input-latency-and-the-hasal-testing-framework/
>  
> to an interesting post 
> 01:43:2

Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-18 Thread PMario 
On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 4:04:41 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A
>

@Jeremy,

Annotations, that you can copy to youtube. 

00:00:00 Intro: rtl: Andreas, Evan, Jeremy, Mario, 01:16:00 Abraham
00:03:07 Mario about: file-backups AddOn 
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/file-backups/ 00:03:16 Mario 
about: TW Development Environment Video Series: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuiC_HFhI4OxtThoQf92ws875R9zgNGSd 
00:04:30 Jeremy - GitHub housekeeping, Plans to enable community access to 
the tiddlywiki5 repo. 
00:07:57 Mario - New Organisation at github? -> no should be included into 
tiddlywiki Org 
00:08:09 .. what happens to TiddlyWiki-Classic? -> no should be part of the 
"new build process" too! 
00:09:37 .. Where is tiddlywiki.com hosted atm? https is provided by 
cloudflare 
00:11:20 Jeremy - Proposes that we move tiddlywiki.com -> tiddlywiki.org .. 
dot-com should be reserved for commercial activity
00:13:55 .. tiddlywiki.org should be "under construction" while we move ... 
URL compatibility is important 
00:15:20 Mario - github now allows gh-pages branch and /docs subdirectory. 
00:16:55 Evan - discussion about "repo - links" ... sub-repo
00:18:47 Mario - about the existing tiddlywiki organization and 
"housekeeping we have to do" 
00:21:00 Jeremy - about a possible roadmap for the switch .. 
00:21:30 ... Jeremy's wifi is broken. 
00:21:43 Mario about the existing structure. ... screen share can't be seen 
at the hangout sorry! 
00:25:55 Jeremy is back. -- and should be cloned :) 
00:26:33 Mario - about new workflow possibilities 
00:27:55 Mario - about loosing documentation contributors, because of the 
existing hurdles. 
00:28:15 Jeremy - about test - suites ... 
00:29:30 .. contributing should be easy ... about tests 
00:30:55 .. about automated headless browser testing 
00:32:35 Evan - about: How we can help new developers ... 
00:33:50 Jeremy - about the roadmap - about 3rd party plugin-librarys 
00:34:47 .. 2 proposals: 1st improve documentation workflow, 2nd make 
plugin discovery easier 
00:37:37 .. there should be something like a "Tips-section" in the 
community created docs. .. Like a cook-book 
00:38:55 .. about xememex.com .. multi user TW in the cloud 
00:39:42 .. may be use google forms for end-user submissions 
00:41:30 Mario - about a possible deploy workflow 
00:42:40 Evan - question - do we have a "diff-match-patch" plugin ? 
00:43:30 Mario - has a "diff-match-patch" plugin, which isn't public atm. 
00:45:25 Jeremy - Interesting experiments with the core "modularity" 
00:47:15 .. About the next steps .. reverence docs shoudl be a plugin .. 
00:49:15 Mario .. 3rd party plugin libraries should be easy to create 
00:52:19 .. about security concerns, ... discussion about a "mechanism of 
trust" 
00:54:30 Evan .. about possible performance improvements. 
00:56:08 .. screen share .. simple animation, modifying the tiddler store, 
which triggers the refresh .. 
00:58:21 .. shows dev profile data .. hasTag is uses most of the time .. 
01:02:00 Jeremy - about "low level" optimizations .. 
01:04:00 .. the hasTag stuff is interesting .. 
01:06:00 Evan .. with "Recent" tab open. about his observations .. 
01:10:05 .. about "low hanging fruits" 
01:11:34 .. Harmonic lattice demo 
01:15:15 .. shows the code 
01:16:00 Intro - Abraham 
01:19:20 Evan - more general thoughts. 
01:21:34 .. about "selective variable" refresh 
01:24:30 Jeremy - about some of BJs optimizations 
01:25:30 Evan - shows code .. discussion 
01:27:20 .. about "several/stacked" tiddler stores 
01:30:47 Mario - about tests with a modified PageTemplate ... TOC 
improvements possible
01:34:45 Jeremy - about the new dynaview-plugin 
01:37:35 .. about performance perception by the user .. 
01:38:33 Evan - about performance changes as things scale .. 
01:42:05 Mario - posted a link: 
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/12/actual-input-latency-and-the-hasal-testing-framework/
 
to an interesting post 
01:43:20 - Next Steps? 
01:44:50 Bye! Bye!


have fun!
mario

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Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-17 Thread Abraham Samma 
Yes. Looking forward to great things as the days unfold. I've had very few 
chances to look deeper into TW5 optimisation as a topic so this hangout was 
very interesting (yet another means of flexing my limited web development 
skills). Thanks Ruston et al for having me. 

PS. I am so sorry but that one about Cohen was funny!

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:59:20 PM UTC+3, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Hangout #104*
>
> I enjoyed it. It was lively. It was really informative.
>
> PMario was *particularly excited*--wonderful voice when happy and in his 
> stride. 
>
> It was nice to hear *Abraham chip in* as he's done great work outside the 
> fold. 
>
> *Evan looks too young* to be so clever ... lucky bastard.
>
> *Jeremy's monotone* is seriously deep. The Leonard Cohen of software?
>
> Josiah
>
>
> On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 16:04:41 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> The hangout is about to start.
>>
>> Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A
>>
>> Or join in at 
>> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/wM9j-qa30GbkJyh30N0dsA5AXPM4Klj3ALqXFZoYmFk=?hl=en_US
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy.
>>
>>
>> On 17 Jan 2018, at 10:48, PMario  wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>> I'll be online.
>> -m
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywikidev/114ef251-1bf4-4120-81c9-08df8038015e%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-17 Thread @TiddlyTweeter 
*Hangout #104*

I enjoyed it. It was lively. It was really informative.

PMario was *particularly excited*--wonderful voice when happy and in his 
stride. 

It was nice to hear *Abraham chip in* as he's done great work outside the 
fold. 

*Evan looks too young* to be so clever ... lucky bastard.

*Jeremy's monotone* is seriously deep. The Leonard Cohen of software?

Josiah


On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 16:04:41 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> The hangout is about to start.
>
> Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A
>
> Or join in at 
> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/wM9j-qa30GbkJyh30N0dsA5AXPM4Klj3ALqXFZoYmFk=?hl=en_US
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
> On 17 Jan 2018, at 10:48, PMario > wrote:
>
> hi,
> I'll be online.
> -m
>
> -- 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>  
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>

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Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-17 Thread Evan Balster 
Reviewing some of the optimizations discussed with a mind for their impact 
potential:

   - Selective implementation of Widget.prototype.assignAttributes
  - This is cheap and easy!
  - Change Widget assignAttributes() to support selective assignment
  - Change ElementWidget refresh() to provide changed attributes
  - Minor costs avoided in many cases
  
  - Don't rebuild the widget tree when non-system variables change (and 
   double-check variables in macrocall)
  - Relatively cheap, no function signature changes
  - Change $set, $vars, $wikify to refreshChildren instead of 
  refreshSelf when no system vars have changed
 - "system variables" are currentTiddler, storyTiddler, namespace, 
 transclusion, and tv- prefix.
  - Change $macrocall to check whether the value of the named variable 
  has changed
  - *-(w*T)* execute/render cost reduction in many cases
  
Tougher changes:

   - Proper variable-awareness in widget refresh
  - Redesigned refresh mechanism
  - Not necessary if variables are remodeled as "derived tiddlers"
  - *-(w*T)* execute/render cost reduction in many cases
  
  - Using an observer pattern rather than a full broadcast for refresh 
   upon tiddler changes
  - Improves performance of complex UIs or wikis with many pages open
  - Tiddler store changes notify only "observing tiddlers" rather than 
  root tiddler
  - Creates a requirement for a widget destruction mechanism
  - *w-W* refresh call complexity reduction
  
  - Implement selective refresh in filters
  - Requires difficult redesign & re-implementation of filter operators 
  & filter methods
  - Implementation could be simplified with category rules 
  (constructors / filters / string ops / sort ops / etc)
  - *-W(t/T)* filter refresh complexity reductions (!!!)
  
  - Implement tiddler-store widget and model variables as "derived 
   tiddlers"
  - Enables a host of code simplifications, aiding other optimizations
   

Legend for my (very crude) assessment of performance impact complexity 
classes:

   - T = tiddlers in wiki
   - t = tiddlers changed during a refresh
   - W = widget tree size
   - w = affected widget subtree size



On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 09:04:41 UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> The hangout is about to start.
>
> Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A
>
> Or join in at 
> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/wM9j-qa30GbkJyh30N0dsA5AXPM4Klj3ALqXFZoYmFk=?hl=en_US
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
> On 17 Jan 2018, at 10:48, PMario > wrote:
>
> hi,
> I'll be online.
> -m
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
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>
>
>

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Re: [twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-17 Thread Jeremy Ruston 
The hangout is about to start.

Watch at http://youtu.be/ts1jx-_ih2A

Or join in at 
https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/wM9j-qa30GbkJyh30N0dsA5AXPM4Klj3ALqXFZoYmFk=?hl=en_US

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> On 17 Jan 2018, at 10:48, PMario  wrote:
> 
> hi,
> I'll be online.
> -m
> 
> -- 
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>  
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[twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-17 Thread PMario 
hi,
I'll be online.
-m

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[twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki 5 Dev Hangout #104 will be on Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT

2018-01-16 Thread Evan Balster 
I may be a few minutes late to this one; apologies in advance if that's the 
case.

On Monday, 15 January 2018 15:47:21 UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> There will be another developer-oriented TiddlyWiki 5 hangout this 
> Wednesday 17th January at 3pm GMT. 
>
> At Evan's request, we'll spend some time discussing the optimisations and 
> architectural improvements that he's been exploring, but hopefully we'll 
> get to some other dev-focussed topics — I'm interested in discussing 
> automating the tiddlywiki.com build process, for instance. 
>
> Also, I'd like to invite others to follow Evan's example and suggest 
> topics and/or formats for future hangouts. 
>
> I'll post the Google Hangout links just here and on Twitter just before we 
> kick things off, 
>
> Best wishes 
>
> Jeremy 
>
>
> -- 
> Jeremy Ruston 
> jer...@jermolene.com  
> https://jermolene.com

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