Re: [time-nuts] Looking for manual....
Brian, I have one on my list (I used to work for Austron in the 80's and have a number of Austron and Datum manuals - sold a few some months back but need to update the list and submit to Time Nuts again). Just need to find which box it is in (moved again!). Yours for the cost of the postage. Will get back to you with a price. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 November 2006 17:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for manual I'm looking for a copy (paper or electronic) of a manual for an Austron 6016 Frequency Multiplier. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance, Brian, WA1ZMS ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Frequency Electronics FE-5650A
Hi All, I am seeking detailed technical information "schematics" on the FE5650A Rubidium frequency oscillator?? Both units have failed in the same manner, no lock and over heating. I am willing to pay for a hard-copy, soft-copy via CD or even to download. Regards Gerald Melbourne Australia ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Austron 6016
Brian: I would suggest that you contact Carla at yourmanualsource.com. She has a copy of the manual for the Austron 6016 that she will rent to you for $25 per week. A quick trip to Kinko’s and you should be able to copy the whole thing for about another $10. Colin Bradley ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 6016
Thanks Colin. I forgot to check with her! Duh! -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Colin Bradley Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:06 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Austron 6016 Brian: I would suggest that you contact Carla at yourmanualsource.com. She has a copy of the manual for the Austron 6016 that she will rent to you for $25 per week. A quick trip to Kinko?s and you should be able to copy the whole thing for about another $10. Colin Bradley ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 6016
Do you still want me to look for the original? Postage will probably be more than the 10 bucks quoted for a copy. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 November 2006 16:11 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 6016 Thanks Colin. I forgot to check with her! Duh! -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Colin Bradley Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:06 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Austron 6016 Brian: I would suggest that you contact Carla at yourmanualsource.com. She has a copy of the manual for the Austron 6016 that she will rent to you for $25 per week. A quick trip to Kinko?s and you should be able to copy the whole thing for about another $10. Colin Bradley ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] HP 5061A parts wanted/offered
Hello, I'm looking for a couple of bits and pieces for my 5061A; I'm still in need for an oscillator, a panel meter and a C field meter. Does anyone have one or more of these parts available at a reasonable price? If I can't get these parts; Is anyone interested in an incomplete 5061A for parts? ;-) It's located in The Netherlands. Cheers, Robert. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
> (http://www.jackson-labs.com/docs/Fury_Flyer.pdf) > > It's available in double-oven version (SC-Cut Crystal) and single-oven > AT-cut. > > Software compatible to the HP GPSDO's, but lot's better performance. > > bye, > Said Hi Said, Maybe I'm missing something. Your PDF data sheet shows a GPSDO with stability in the range 1.5e-12 to 3.5e-12 dropping to around 8e-13 at tau 20k seconds. A typical HP GPSDO (e.g., 58503A/B or Z3801A), as in: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503b/log19395v.gif shows a stability in the range 0.8e-12 to 3.0e-12 dropping to around 5e-13 at tau 20k seconds. Don't get me wrong; I like your small, modern, and relatively inexpensive GPSDO, but can you clarify for us what you mean by "lot's better performance"? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
> Hi Rick, Jose, Hmurray, > > forgot to mention: > > the Fury unit only uses about 0.35A at 12V, and runs from 11V to 14V, so it > can easily be run from a Pb battery, < 4.5W power consumption. 45min warmup > time typ. with the double-oven OCXO. Said, this is very nice. Well done. > Better <100s Allan Deviation stability than the PRS10 SRS Rb standard. Are these SRS specs or an actual measurements? > Allan Deviation of < 2E-14 with 18 hour averaging possible, see attached > Allan Deviation plot (Vertical in Nanoseconds, double-oven OCXO). Basically > that's the accuracy of it's internal M12+ Timing GPS. Careful - that plot is not the performance of your GPSDO. It looks more like a measure of internal jitter or something rather than external accuracy or frequency stability. I'll take this offline with you. It's misleading to claim or to think you're getting 2e-14 @ 18h performance out of an M12+. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
Mark, John, Bill, Tom, I received a number of off-line emails from you about the new Jackson-Labs Fury GPSDO, thanks much for your interest! Let me try to address all of your questions here, please excuse the long email. I am loosely associated with Jackson-Labs - it carries my name :) The Fury GPSDO is going through it's final stages of software development, the hardware has stabilized about two months ago and not changed since. We have about 10 units available from stock at this point. We are thinking of offering these to Time-Nuts members at a preferred price until sold out. The time-nuts special pricing we can offer is $750 for the single-oven AT-cut, and $1050 for the double-oven SC-cut OCXO both in single piece quantities. This includes a Trimble GPS antenna and the Fury PCB. Software upgrades will be available on our Website for free download. The next batch of Fury's will be inside metal enclosures, and will be more expensive. My personal recommendation is the double-oven SC-cut unit, the OCXO is so good that it virtually does not require any electronic temperature compensation (spec is 6.7E-012 per degree Celcius)! The single-oven OCXO unit is recommended to be operated in some form of enclosure. The software interface uses a subset of the HP/Symmetricom 58503B SCPI interface commands, which follows the SCPI Standard Version 1994.0. We added a number of propriatary commands to access and change loop control parameters, as well as OCXO current, temperature, UTC offset etc. The direct access to loop parameters such as IIR filtering, PI control, Aging, Tempco, OCXO-temp. and current, etc as well as logging of capture parameters to .txt files should allow Time-Nuts months of experimentation! Logged data such as OCXO temperature versus EFC-DAC etc can be directly viewed with Ulrich Bangerts fantastic plotter program. The remaining software development effort is focussing on achieving 100% compatibility with SatStat, and GSPCon, this has not quite finished yet, but the units' can be easily firmware-upgraded in the field via the serial port later. Here are the key features that separate the Fury from the competition in our opinion: * only <4.5W at 12V needed, allows simple Pb Battery backup * No spurs visible in phase plot when checking with TSC5120A; <-155dBc phase noise >1KHz * M12+ receiver, and double oven SC-cut OCXO for around $1K new small qty * No need for thermal insulation with Double Oven OCXO * Significantly better phase noise, ADEV, Power consumption etc than 58503B * 32-bit, 58Mips RISC processor running extremely fast RTOS * Sine Wave as well as CMOS outputs available in parallel * Access to internal loop parameters and easy data logging of capture results for stability tweaking and experimentation. * Alarm output. 1PPS output from either raw GPS or OCXO. 1PPS output can be set +-10us to UTC in 1ns steps * Configurable serial port 9600 - 115200 Baud. Secondary serial port allows full access to M12+ receiver via WinOncore12 * Two LCD and keypad options (16x2, or 20x4 LCD), 1 or 5 key's, or fully controlled via serial port Please send us your suggestions for product features or improvements! We would love to get feedback. Bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
Hi Tom, we mesaured an early Fury prototype against a PRS10 using the TSC5120A with an external 5MHz MTI 260 type free-running OCXO as a reference. The Fury was significantly better <100s against the MTI reference than the PRS10 was against the MTI ref, almost a factor of 10x better 1s to 10s. This was due to the fact that the PRS10 has a large Rb control-loop hump around 20s. Above several 100s, the free-running 260 Oscillator was drifting away to make the measurements meaningless unfortunately. On the long term internal TIM measurements, as stated below we are basically getting to be within parts of 1E-014 of the M12+. As stated that is basically limited by the accuracy of the M12+ receiver itself. We are now qualifying the absolute accuracy of the unit against a Cs standard to see how good the M12+ and our OCXO can get. bye, Said In a message dated 11/12/2006 13:54:34 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Hi Rick, Jose, Hmurray, > > forgot to mention: > > the Fury unit only uses about 0.35A at 12V, and runs from 11V to 14V, so it > can easily be run from a Pb battery, < 4.5W power consumption. 45min warmup > time typ. with the double-oven OCXO. Said, this is very nice. Well done. > Better <100s Allan Deviation stability than the PRS10 SRS Rb standard. Are these SRS specs or an actual measurements? > Allan Deviation of < 2E-14 with 18 hour averaging possible, see attached > Allan Deviation plot (Vertical in Nanoseconds, double-oven OCXO). Basically > that's the accuracy of it's internal M12+ Timing GPS. Careful - that plot is not the performance of your GPSDO. It looks more like a measure of internal jitter or something rather than external accuracy or frequency stability. I'll take this offline with you. It's misleading to claim or to think you're getting 2e-14 @ 18h performance out of an M12+. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
Hi Tom, The plot from the brochure that you are looking at is one you had measured for us on the FireFox GPSDO predecessor, which did not have Temperature or aging compensation, and had a much coarser TIM, DAC, and DAC reference etc but used the same OCXO as the Fury. The Fury improves upon this previous product very significantly. We are still preparing the ADEV plot of the final Fury using a Cs standard. According to Symmetricom, the performance of the 58503b between 100s and 1000s is about 3E-011 typ and 5E-011 max. according to page 3 of this Symmetricom datasheet: _http://www.symmttm.com/pdf/Gps/ds_58503b.pdf_ (http://www.symmttm.com/pdf/Gps/ds_58503b.pdf) Our spec is typical, and measures about <5E-012 on the PDF ADEV plot. That is almost an order of magnitude better than the Symmetricom datasheet for 100s to 1000s. Of course as you mentioned every oscillator is different, and improves over time just as red wine :) Also, our phase noise is about 10dB (or more) better, while our power is almost an order of magnitude lower than the 58503b. Our price is also about $3000 less I believe. bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A
> Hi Tom, > > The plot from the brochure that you are looking at is > one you had measured for us on the FireFox GPSDO > predecessor, which did not have Temperature or aging > compensation, and had a much coarser TIM, DAC, > and DAC reference etc but used the same OCXO as > the Fury. The Fury improves upon this previous product > very significantly. We are still preparing the ADEV plot > of the final Fury using a Cs standard. OK, that's good news. I thought that TSC plot looked familiar even if it wasn't very good. If your new offering is better than the early prototype, you will be in good shape. Looking forward to seeing your updated data sheet. > According to Symmetricom, the performance of the > 58503b between 100s and 1000s is about 3E-011 > typ and 5E-011 max. according to page 3 of this > Symmetricom datasheet: > > http://www.symmttm.com/pdf/Gps/ds_58503b.pdf When dealing with competition it's ok to compare their spec with your spec; just dangerous to compare their spec with your actual measurements. Still, given the older design and implementation of the 58503 I think there's a good chance you will beat it by quite a bit. It's a great benchmark since many of us are familiar with the 58503/Z3801 family. > Our spec is typical, and measures about <5E-012 > on the PDF ADEV plot. That is almost an order of > magnitude better than the Symmetricom datasheet > for 100s to 1000s. Of course as you mentioned every > oscillator is different, and improves over time just as > red wine :) Unless you're talking lost-GPS holdover performance the "red wine" aging improvement will have almost no affect on the performance of your GPSDO. That's why when building a GPSDO it's much more important to pick an OCXO that has good short-term stability than one with good long-term stability. The GPS engine and FLL/PLL algorithm can make up for long-term drift but there's nothing you can do about short-term stability if it isn't there in the first place. > Also, our phase noise is about 10dB (or more) better, > while our power is almost an order of magnitude lower > than the 58503b. > > Our price is also about $3000 less I believe. This all sounds very good. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
