Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe
On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:43:06 -0400, John Ackermann N8UR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this happens too often, AOL will think I'm a bad guy and ban my domain from sending email to *anyone* at AOL. Getting them to back off from this is a major pain in the *** (I know, I've been through it). Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN I don't speak Stupid so do speak slowly. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscr...
John, I've had the same exact AOL email since about 1992 or 93, in the meantime I also had about 12-15 other ephemeral ISP email addresses assigned to me. How long have you had the same email? Have you ever tried your ISP in the middle of rural China where there is no Internet connection anywhere to be found? In Europe on the Autobahn? Or in the desert in Israel? Didn't think so. AOL worked there for me too. And at the same time it provides access to the Internet via POTS when all others (professional VPN, wireless, etc) fails. Also: try getting access to black-listed (censored) web pages in China, Tibet, etc through your ISP. No problem when you go through AOL. Keep calling us unsophisticated though. bye, Said In a message dated 5/13/2008 23:16:00 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? John **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscr...
In a message dated 14/05/2008 07:16:13 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? - Only a good thing to those not using AOL so hardly a very useful suggestion is it? Not that I'm biased of course:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscribe
There are many reasons why a person might want to stay with a particular ISP for mail. I don't but one of my friend does, and that has been a subject of conversation between us in the past. While a fully qualified engineer, this person wants to keep her AOL mail account for a number of reasons, which I won't go into here. Most of them are legitimate but weak and in my opinion not sufficient to justify staying with AOL, but it's only my opinion. In her opinion, it does not suck enough to switch. Now, no one should accept substandard service from anyone without a fight, and I wish AOL listened to its customers once in a while, but I understand perfectly where John Ackermann stands. While I applaud John for going through this for his non-paying customers, I could not blame him if he simply gave up on that... Easy for me to say since I don't use AOL :-) An easy way around for those who *want* to stick with AOL as their mail client in the event that it would not be supported by this list would be one of the many free remailers, so that they could use a non-AOL account when they subscribe, but get their mail through AOL. Through my ISP, I can have up to something like 2,000 free email accounts which can be set as forwarders or web mail. I currently use 2. If anyone on this list wants a free email forwarder address on the ko4bb.com domain, just ask me :-) Just my $0.02... Didier KO4BB No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscr...
Unfortunately, you guys are missing John's point! What happens in the scenario that John describes is that AOL will blacklist his server. If that happens, *any* AOL recipient's mail will be rejected by AOL and you will NEVER receive the time-nuts mail (if you have an AOL address!). So that is a very bad thing. In addition to that, Febo happens to be my mail server (to which I am very thankful to John for allowing me to do that). If AOL blacklists Febo, that means that I also will not be able to send email to AOL accounts. This is a very bad thing, because not only do I have a lot of friends that use AOL, but also some business associates. That is very ugly and I know through John just how bad it is to deal with AOL on this. They are VERY difficult to deal with, and when it happened this one time before it took him days to get it straightened out. AOL does NOT have a sense of humor, and unfortunately, they are the ones that are in control of the situation. You have to beg them to put you back on the whitelist. So all you AOL folks, please be careful with that spam button!! Daun -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:42 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscr... In a message dated 14/05/2008 07:16:13 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? - Only a good thing to those not using AOL so hardly a very useful suggestion is it? Not that I'm biased of course:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe
Neon John wrote: Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? Except that it stops *any* mail from febo.com going to *any* AOL address. So I can't email my (hypothetical) great-grandmother, and AOL subscribers on the other dozen or so lists I run (ham radio, not TF related) are out of luck. And I don't think it's fair to paint all AOL users with that kind of brush, anyway... John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscribe
Didier Juges wrote: While I applaud John for going through this for his non-paying customers, I could not blame him if he simply gave up on that... Easy for me to say since I don't use AOL :-) The real problem is that the AOL block applies to *all* mail from *.febo.com to any AOL subscriber, so it affects more than just this list. And by the way -- I don't have *any* paying customers. febo.com is run from an old coal cellar (the bunker) in my basement, and it's never collected a penny from anyone for anything. Everything I do with computers, radios, and TF is strictly a hobby; my real career is much less honorable. :-) John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe
From: John Ackermann N8UR [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:22:57 -0400 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Neon John wrote: Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? Except that it stops *any* mail from febo.com going to *any* AOL address. So I can't email my (hypothetical) great-grandmother, and AOL subscribers on the other dozen or so lists I run (ham radio, not TF related) are out of luck. And I don't think it's fair to paint all AOL users with that kind of brush, anyway... Now, while there be some legitimate and some unlegitimate issues with AOL, here and also before and probably also in the future, I don't think this is the time and place to divulge into a pro or con discussion of AOL. The original message was actually quite balanced, only asking AOL users wishing to unsubscribe NOT to use the SPAM button as this will have unwanted sideeffects. That was not AOL bashing, it was only acknowledging an AOL specific feature and the sideeffects of that feature when missused. What happend after that is just a waste of time and peoples temper, not aiding in the improvement of the groups skills in the art of time anf frequency. So, *PLEASE* drop it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe
Well, I did leave room for at least a couple of AOHellers with above room temperature IQs :-) Though my post was tongue-in-cheek, I'm not at all open-minded about AOHell, considering how many hair-tearing hours I spent purging perfectly innocent computers of the plague. Nowadays if someone asks me to work on his computer, my first screening question is Is there AOL software on your machine? I'd rather exorcize a root kit/virus/trojan/bot combo than deal with that. One thing nice I can say about AOHell. Their CDs look spectacular in the microwave! BTW, John, what other lists do you run? Jack: I registered a domain name initially for the specific purpose of having a permanent email address that I have total control over. I've used several since my return to the net after a hiatus to let everyone else get rich during the dot.bomb thing :-) but all the old ones still forward to my current one which isn't the one that I use on this list. John On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:22:57 -0400, John Ackermann N8UR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neon John wrote: Wouldn't that be kind of a good thing? I mean, can the intersection of the set of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss here contain more than a couple of people? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell goodbye? Except that it stops *any* mail from febo.com going to *any* AOL address. So I can't email my (hypothetical) great-grandmother, and AOL subscribers on the other dozen or so lists I run (ham radio, not TF related) are out of luck. And I don't think it's fair to paint all AOL users with that kind of brush, anyway... John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN I don't speak Stupid so do speak slowly. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam button to unsubscribe
Neon John wrote: BTW, John, what other lists do you run? I can answer that one, I found a list at https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo Which I got to by taking the time-nuts off the end of the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email. ;-) Now, where did I leave my Meerschaum pipe and Stradivarius? Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Datum FTS 4065B Plot
Hi: I've been looking at the 4065B Cesium standard vs. GPS this month. After the plot showed a slope of 472E-15 the frequency offset was changed from zero to 472 on 8 May (gambling on the sign). For the next couple of days the points all were in a box 20 ns high. BUT then the slope changed. It's now got a positive slope that's very close to 472E-15 and the frequency offset is at 472 not zero. See attached plot. What might be causing this? For example the 4065B is just sitting on a chest of drawers and might be moved or rotated a little from time to time. Is there a requirement that it be in a temperature controlled room on a concrete pillar to get into the E-14 area? It just turns on better than 5E-13 and the attached plot seems to indicate that it and be manually adjusted to parts in E-14 but so far I've not been able to do that. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com/P/Prod.html Products I make and sell http://www.prc68.com/Alpha.shtml All my web pages listed based on html name http://www.PRC68.com http://www.precisionclock.com http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Web Cam 4065BvsGPS.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscribe
John Ackermann N8UR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Didier Juges wrote: While I applaud John for going through this for his non-paying customers, I could not blame him if he simply gave up on that... Easy for me to say since I don't use AOL :-) The real problem is that the AOL block applies to *all* mail from *.febo.com to any AOL subscriber, so it affects more than just this list. And by the way -- I don't have *any* paying customers. febo.com is run from an old coal cellar (the bunker) in my basement, and it's never collected a penny from anyone for anything. Everything I do with computers, radios, and TF is strictly a hobby; my real career is much less honorable. :-) John John, I know you do this out of love, sorry if my tongue-in-cheek comment about non-paying customers was somehow understood to mean you HAD paying customers. I also appreciate that you do not have ads on your site, even though I understand ads are what permit a number of otherwise free sites I use regularly to operate. Same thing here with my manuals pages, free and ads free, even though I use a hosting service for convenience. I was self-hosted at the beginning, but it turns out that aside from the occasional hassle, it's generally much less work and worry for me to use an outside host, and when hosting large manuals, an ISP with big fat pipes is a lot better than a residential cable account, let alone DSL. Didier KO4BB by the way, check my manuals at: http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl (here comes the plug :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Datum FTS 4065B Plot
Hi Tom: If you look at the plot I attached as a .pdf you can see that the current slope looks like a nice straight line covering almost 4 days so temperature is not a factor. The only factor I can think of is magnetic field. I guess the next step is to rotate the box 90 degrees and see what happens unless there's some other suggestions. I haven't got the automatic logging started yet, but it's in process. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com/P/Prod.html Products I make and sell http://www.prc68.com/Alpha.shtml All my web pages listed based on html name http://www.PRC68.com http://www.precisionclock.com http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Web Cam Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi: I've been looking at the 4065B Cesium standard vs. GPS this month. After the plot showed a slope of 472E-15 the frequency offset was changed from zero to 472 on 8 May (gambling on the sign). For the next couple of days the points all were in a box 20 ns high. BUT then the slope changed. It's now got a positive slope that's very close to 472E-15 and the frequency offset is at 472 not zero. See attached plot. What might be causing this? For example the 4065B is just sitting on a chest of drawers and might be moved or rotated a little from time to time. Is there a requirement that it be in a temperature controlled room on a concrete pillar to get into the E-14 area? It just turns on better than 5E-13 and the attached plot seems to indicate that it and be manually adjusted to parts in E-14 but so far I've not been able to do that. Brooke, At the level of e-14 and e-15 you might need weeks of data to separate the normal flicker noise from any clear frequency offset or drift trends. Yes, it's quite possible that environmental effects are also polluting your data. You can either control temperature, or just collect temperature data and see if there is a correlation with your standard. Do you have a continuous set raw GPS-Cs 1PPS data that I can look at to see if I can help you? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Datum FTS 4065B Plot
If you look at the plot I attached as a .pdf you can see that the current slope looks like a nice straight line covering almost 4 days so temperature is not a factor. The only factor I can think of is magnetic field. I guess the next step is to rotate the box 90 degrees and see what happens unless there's some other suggestions. Since you are plotting phase (not frequency) the nice straight line you see simply means you have a frequency offset. This is normal and expected with any standard compared to GPS. What may be temperature effects are the little wiggles above and below the line. You can almost see they form a diurnal pattern. If you subtract the frequency offset before you plot, you'll get phase residuals, which will reveal patterns in greater detail. There are Excel functions that will help you fit lines to the data and remove trends, etc. Email me your XLS file offline and I'll show you. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Earthquake effect
Hi guys, did anyone of you see any effects on the stability/accuracy on your Cs/Rb units by the massive earthquake in Chengdu? I did not, but I bet the quake was so massive that it reverberated throughout the globe. bye, Said **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Datum FTS 4065B Plot
From: Tom Van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Datum FTS 4065B Plot Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:49:46 -0700 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you look at the plot I attached as a .pdf you can see that the current slope looks like a nice straight line covering almost 4 days so temperature is not a factor. The only factor I can think of is magnetic field. I guess the next step is to rotate the box 90 degrees and see what happens unless there's some other suggestions. Since you are plotting phase (not frequency) the nice straight line you see simply means you have a frequency offset. This is normal and expected with any standard compared to GPS. What may be temperature effects are the little wiggles above and below the line. You can almost see they form a diurnal pattern. If you subtract the frequency offset before you plot, you'll get phase residuals, which will reveal patterns in greater detail. There are Excel functions that will help you fit lines to the data and remove trends, etc. Email me your XLS file offline and I'll show you. A little software tip would be to try out the fityk software. I use it for various purposes, and can fit curves for a number of functions while also allowing for some simpler form of dataprocessing. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Another query on the 5065A
Having got the previous issues ironed out I set about calibrating the 5065A. This all went well and I got the drift down so I couldn't see it move over a few hours. The next step is to see how it performs over a longer time base. So I come back a day or two later and find it is 50ns out. So I plugged the 1PPS from my reference into the back and pressed the synchronise button and it is still 50ns out. So I adjusted the sub-microsecond trimmer to bring it back in line. Next day it is out again. Re-synchronising made no difference. Am I right to assume there might be a problem in the delay circuit? Anyone seen this before? (I haven't looked at the book yet - am just about to...) Regards, Jim Palfreyman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Another query on the 5065A
Hi Jim, I would have to look in the manual to be 100%, but for 90%, I think the synchronize button is just to synchronize the 1pps pulse with an external 1pps reference. It is a clock (i.e., time) function NOT a frequency function. BillWB6BNQ Palfreyman, Jim L wrote: Having got the previous issues ironed out I set about calibrating the 5065A. This all went well and I got the drift down so I couldn't see it move over a few hours. The next step is to see how it performs over a longer time base. So I come back a day or two later and find it is 50ns out. So I plugged the 1PPS from my reference into the back and pressed the synchronise button and it is still 50ns out. So I adjusted the sub-microsecond trimmer to bring it back in line. Next day it is out again. Re-synchronising made no difference. Am I right to assume there might be a problem in the delay circuit? Anyone seen this before? (I haven't looked at the book yet - am just about to...) Regards, Jim Palfreyman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Another query on the 5065A
I would have to look in the manual to be 100%, but for 90%, I think the synchronize button is just to synchronize the 1pps pulse with an external 1pps reference. It is a clock (i.e., time) function NOT a frequency function. The 5071A's are like that. Sync means align the PPSes and the 5MHz phase to be within a few nanos. Warner ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
