Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

[Paramithiotti, Luciano Paolo S]

 LPRO have an high 10Mhz phase noise; if you want a rubidium, FRK is better 
than LPRO but I suggest the Trimble or HP GPS freq standard.


Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
IZ5JHJ


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of J. L. Trantham, M. D.
Sent: giovedì 30 settembre 2010 21.46
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

LPRO needs to be calibrated.  Once calibrated, should be pretty good for a 
reasonable period of time, depending on what your performance criteria are, 
probably a year or so for amateur radio type stuff.

Thunderbolt is linked to NIST, via the GPS satellites, and never needs 
calibration.

LPRO more of a 'transfer standard', Thunderbolt more of a 'primary standard'.

Price, probably, slightly cheaper for the LPRO but I prefer the Thunderbolt.
It goes from 'off' to locked to GPS in about 10 minutes or less (not the first 
time though) once your antenna is installed and not moving around.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on
Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 10:44 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

Hello Time-Nutters,

 I would like to get a 10 MHz frequency standard for My Lab, and would like 
some information on what would be the best choice and would like to know the 
difference from EFRATOM LPRO-101 Rubidium 10MHZ Frequency Standard and 
Thunderbolt PRECISION GPS 10mhz FREQUENCY&TIME Standard any help would be very 
much appreciated.
 Thank You,
Sal C. Cornacchia






From: Brian Kirby 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 10:03:11 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Allan Variance

And ALAVAR
http://www.alamath.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=3
0

And PLOTTER http://ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html



On 9/29/2010 11:18 AM, Martyn Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone recommend software to calulate the Allan varaince from a 
> set of data?
>
> I have taken many measurements with the SR620 using it's 500 second 
> gate and downloaded the results into Excel.
>
> I can use the SR620 itself to calulate the Allan Variance. However, I 
> want to know the Allan Varaince over a 1 second sample instead of 
> 500 seconds.
>
> Hoping to plug the data into software and get the result!!
>
> Regards
>
> Martyn
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3166 - Release Date: 
>09/29/10 06:37:00
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

[SAL CORNACCHIA]

Hi Luciano,
 
Thank You for the information, it will help me to decide on what to get.
 Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) 








From: "Paramithiotti, Luciano Paolo S" 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 3:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

LPRO have an high 10Mhz phase noise; if you want a rubidium, FRK is better than 
LPRO but I suggest the Trimble or HP GPS freq standard.


Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
IZ5JHJ


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of J. L. Trantham, M. D.
Sent: giovedì 30 settembre 2010 21.46
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

LPRO needs to be calibrated.  Once calibrated, should be pretty good for a 
reasonable period of time, depending on what your performance criteria are, 
probably a year or so for amateur radio type stuff.

Thunderbolt is linked to NIST, via the GPS satellites, and never needs 
calibration.

LPRO more of a 'transfer standard', Thunderbolt more of a 'primary standard'.

Price, probably, slightly cheaper for the LPRO but I prefer the Thunderbolt.
It goes from 'off' to locked to GPS in about 10 minutes or less (not the first 
time though) once your antenna is installed and not moving around.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on
Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 10:44 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Frequency Standard

Hello Time-Nutters,

I would like to get a 10 MHz frequency standard for My Lab, and would like some 
information on what would be the best choice and would like to know the 
difference from EFRATOM LPRO-101 Rubidium 10MHZ Frequency Standard and 
Thunderbolt PRECISION GPS 10mhz FREQUENCY&TIME Standard any help would be very 
much appreciated.
Thank You,
Sal C. Cornacchia






From: Brian Kirby 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 10:03:11 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Allan Variance

And ALAVAR
http://www.alamath.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=3
0

And PLOTTER http://ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html



On 9/29/2010 11:18 AM, Martyn Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone recommend software to calulate the Allan varaince from a 
> set of data?
>
> I have taken many measurements with the SR620 using it's 500 second 
> gate and downloaded the results into Excel.
>
> I can use the SR620 itself to calulate the Allan Variance. However, I 
> want to know the Allan Varaince over a 1 second sample instead of 
> 500 seconds.
>
> Hoping to plug the data into software and get the result!!
>
> Regards
>
> Martyn
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3166 - Release Date: 
>09/29/10 06:37:00
>
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 9/30/2010 12:43 PM, Alan Melia wrote:

Mark to my inexpert eye that doesnt look like a very good overtone
oscillator but I appreciate that it is slimmed down to keep the weight and
size down, I can see why it is touchy. There is nothing to make the
oscillator degenerate at the crystal fundamental. In fact it looks like a
Pierce with a tuned circuit in the anode. If it goes off at the overtone my
guess is that it by luck! But there are more clever people than me in this
Group who may be more useful to you.


I agree completely.  What I have found to work is:

Build a free running Colpitts oscillator and get it tuned to the
frequency you want.  Then, insert the crystal in series with the
emitter.  Insert the load in series with the collector.  Obviously,
this is easiest if a "grounded collector" topology is used.  I used this 
for many high volume crystal oscillators and they just worked, period. 
No tweaking.


Rick Karlquist N6RK

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[time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals

[Mark Sims]

This type of circuit is NOT a free running oscillator.  It is a type of 
blocking oscillator that generates a short,  high powered ping every second or 
two.  It is designed to be able to extract every bit of power out of the 
battery.  It can run for over a month off of a couple of button cells,  yet 
generate a signal detectable over a mile away while it is laying flat on the 
ground.  The allowable frequency bands are at 216, 217, and 219 Mhz.  Each unit 
must be on its own freq,  hence the need for one-off custom crystals.

Yes, it is a weird circuit and depends upon all sorts of unspecified 
parameters.  The components have to be hand selected and matched.  This is the 
price one has to pay for this sort of operation.

---
-Build a free running Colpitts oscillator and get it tuned to the frequency you 
want.  Then, insert the crystal in series with theemitter.  
  
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Re: [time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals

[Alan Melia]

Hi Mark looking at the M15m article where the design seems to stem from
suggests that the oscillator is NOT opertaing on 150 or 200 MHz but in fact
40 to 50 Mhz with a cheap crystal and the LC collector circuit is selecting
the the 3rd or 5th harmonic (not overtone a common mis-apprehension) The
pulsing is just an RC in the base bias where the high value of R wont allow
the circuit to oscillate hence it takes no current until the C is charged
up.

My thought is a 200MHz overtone crystal could cost you $60, whereas a 50MHz
3rd OT will probably cost $20 and a cheap computer grade $2. The big
difficulty will be getting cheap crystals on the right or anyway different
enough frequencies. Crystals removed in rechannelling older 2-way radios may
be a better source. I have hunders of these.unfortunately I am in the
UK.

Alan G3NYK



- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Sims" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:18 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals



This type of circuit is NOT a free running oscillator. It is a type of
blocking oscillator that generates a short, high powered ping every second
or two. It is designed to be able to extract every bit of power out of the
battery. It can run for over a month off of a couple of button cells, yet
generate a signal detectable over a mile away while it is laying flat on the
ground. The allowable frequency bands are at 216, 217, and 219 Mhz. Each
unit must be on its own freq, hence the need for one-off custom crystals.

Yes, it is a weird circuit and depends upon all sorts of unspecified
parameters. The components have to be hand selected and matched. This is the
price one has to pay for this sort of operation.

---
-Build a free running Colpitts oscillator and get it tuned to the frequency
you want.  Then, insert the crystal in series with theemitter.
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[time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/ Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?

[ziggy9]

Fellow time-nuts: 
I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in
conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency
comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your
primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 crystals
in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB).
It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something
like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here.

So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be
interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this
thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat
rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a
curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it
rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone
that wants them.

Best regards,
Paul Davis - K9MR
 

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Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?

[jmfranke]

I am very interested.  Do you have any images?

John  Franke WA4WDL
Portsmouth, VA 23703

--
From: "ziggy9" 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:34 PM
To: 
Subject: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec 
DY-5842 VLF receiver?




Fellow time-nuts:
I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in
conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency
comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your
primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 
crystals

in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB).
It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something
like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here.

So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be
interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this
thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat
rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a
curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it
rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone
that wants them.

Best regards,
Paul Davis - K9MR


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Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?

[Brian Kirby]

You might consider contacting Dr. Ken Kuhn  --  kennathak...@gmail.com

check his HP museum at http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/

Brian Kirby KD4FM



On 10/1/2010 5:34 PM, ziggy9 wrote:


Fellow time-nuts:
I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in
conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency
comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your
primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 crystals
in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB).
It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something
like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here.

So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be
interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this
thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat
rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a
curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it
rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone
that wants them.

Best regards,
Paul Davis - K9MR


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Re: [time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals

[jimlux]

Mark Sims wrote:

This type of circuit is NOT a free running oscillator.  It is a type
of blocking oscillator that generates a short,  high powered ping
every second or two.  It is designed to be able to extract every bit
of power out of the battery.  It can run for over a month off of a
couple of button cells,  yet generate a signal detectable over a mile
away while it is laying flat on the ground.  The allowable frequency
bands are at 216, 217, and 219 Mhz.  Each unit must be on its own
freq,  hence the need for one-off custom crystals.

Yes, it is a weird circuit and depends upon all sorts of unspecified
parameters.  The components have to be hand selected and matched.
This is the price one has to pay for this sort of operation.



This is comparable, then, to the wildlife transmitters for Argos (which 
are at 400MHz-ish).. Does this application need good medium term 
stability (i.e. are you making a series of Doppler measurements?)




--- -Build a free running
Colpitts oscillator and get it tuned to the frequency you want.
Then, insert the crystal in series with theemitter. 
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[time-nuts] Small quantity custom crystals

[Mark Sims]

Nope,  nothing special about the stability requirements.  Hopefully the freq 
won't drift off channel (receivers are usually fixed freq or channeled at 
10-50KHz with a VFO tweaker cap to allow some offset adjustment within the 
channel).  They are usually highly optimized for sensitivity (< 0.1uV) and 
bandpass.  
I did some playing with some computer crystals in the 50 MHz range and could 
get the circuit to work properly with them,  so the crystal does not need to be 
a 5th overtone.  
-
This is comparable, then, to the wildlife transmitters for Argos (which are at 
400MHz-ish).. Does this application need good medium term stability (i.e. are 
you making a series of Doppler measurements?)
  
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Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?

[Paul Davis]

I've received a few expressions of interest. So I've put up a few  
pictures at  , just the front,  
back, and top views. When I received this, there was no top or back  
panel, I didn't remove them for the pictures. In those pictures,  
you'll see that there's some accumulated crud, just dust really, that  
could be cleaned off. But there it is in all its  glory, warts and  
all. In fact, it's old enough the orange paint has been peeling off  
the meter needle :)


It's 19" rack mount, the manual says 10-5/32" high and 16" deep. It  
also says 35 lbs, but it really doesn't seem that heavy to me.


Someone suggested that I pdf the manual, and I can certainly do that,  
but it will be next week. I'll post it when I get it done.


Thanks for the interest.

Oh, and I'm in Massachusetts btw.

On Oct 1, 2010, at 6:42 PM, jmfranke wrote:


I am very interested.  Do you have any images?

John  Franke WA4WDL
Portsmouth, VA 23703

--
From: "ziggy9" 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:34 PM
To: 
Subject: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/ 
Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?




Fellow time-nuts:
I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in
conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a  
frequency
comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as  
your
primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5  
crystals
in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL,  
WWVB).
It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in  
something
like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it  
here.


So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be
interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about  
this
thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell,  
somewhat

rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a
curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested  
in it
rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to  
anyone

that wants them.

Best regards,
Paul Davis - K9MR


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