Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
Hmmh, they have some good deals on Rolex watches there. ;-) http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=14160480823 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Question
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:03:45 -0800 Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: It's like asking why did they change the design so that 5V is required, saves the cost of a regulator chip and some caps. They seem to be concerned with saving even $2 on a $1K device. It's a common misconception to think that the amount of money they try to safe per device is determined by the cost of the device while it actually is the number of devices produced. Saving $2 doesn't matter if you build just one device, no matter whether it costs $10 or $1000. The time you need to find those $2 costs you more than what you save. But if you build 100k devices, $2 will save you 200k. With that budget you can go on for a few months to find those $2 and still make money out of it. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi Neville, RoHS 5 likely means RoHS-5/6, which means that all RoHS-banned substances, except lead, are removed. This means that regular leaded solder is used. RoHS-6/6 means that lead-free solder is used. Cheers, Bert, VE2ZAZ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:17:55 +1100 From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Message-ID: 2568f2a2-4de2-4dbc-a711-f93c56c21...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, I have two of Morion MV89A, one is prominently marked (RoHS 5). I assume that means lead-less solder. Pure tin solder is much more prone to crystallised joints which break later. Are these the dodgy units ? cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Super cheap AVR USB boards
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:28:47 -0500, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you are shipping to North America, there are cheaper options. Bob Well for once we EU'ians might have a good deal (incl VAT shipping) It is supposedly Teensy 1.0 compatible (has arduino libs) Pinout isn't Teensy 1.0 compatible but all pins are on the board ISP-MKII Clone (I gotta make one) http://www.makestuff.eu/wordpress/?p=2288 Pinout http://www.makestuff.eu/wordpress/?p=2375 3v3 conversion http://www.makestuff.eu/wordpress/?p=1881 Spartan Jtag (Simple) http://www.makestuff.eu/wordpress/?p=1927 CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi The paper mentions HC-40 crystals. They probably have the crystal drive current cranked down to optimize short term stability at 1 sec and longer. The phase noise floor takes a back seat. The other interesting thing in the paper is that the short term numbers shown aren't into parts in the 13th. Bob On Feb 25, 2012, at 9:11 PM, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote: Are the specs at 5 MHz or at 10? They should be 6 db worse at 10 than at 5. Now that I'm looking back at the data sheet posted with the auction, they were indeed specified at 5 MHz. But even after the 6 dB penalty, their spec limits versus their real-world numbers are pretty marginal. Morion actually announced this particular oscillator at IFCS 2002, so there's a paper of sorts: http://www.ke5fx.com/Morion_MV89A_IEEE_IFCS_2002.pdf . Figure 4 was taken from a 10 MHz part, but all three of the ones I've tested look like the attached. Same as figure 4 until about 200 Hz... then they never go any lower. -- john mv89a_pn.png ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
Put the URL into Google Translate. -John == I suspect a lot of the ebay sellers are buying stuff from Taobao and just reselling it. For example, this appears to be the original source of the FE-5680As which were supplied with the OCXO and socket (although he seems to have run out of OCXOs now) http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12204039399 - the price is interesting, too - 90 RMB (about $15). Of course, they generally won't ship to addresses outside China. The bit of his website dealing with oscillators is interesting, too (in Chinese, but lots of photos) - I suspect some of the other stuff being sold on ebay is being sourced from him: http://www.dz98.com/an.htm Regards, Pete Bell On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: It might even be simpler than that. Same pictures, same location, same business; different ebay stores for each sales rep - paid on commission or by the piece. Perhaps the next time I buy something from overseas I will ask. Sometimes there is a bit of struggle with language but for the most part I have found everyone one I have dealt with to be pleasant and enjoys exchanging pleasantries. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: February 22, 2012 13:13 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi I've often wondered if there are actually more than two people selling all of the FE's being auctioned. There's not much of a way to tell. The only way I can figure is to look at the location they ship from. If the photos and descriptions and the city they ship from are the same I assume it's the same person. I think they run multiple eBay stores as a hedge again someone leaving negative feedback for a package getting lost in the mail. I doubt the same seller ships from multiple locations that are far apart. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
Pete Thanks for the link. Now it explains where they come from and what condition they are in. Again I like to warn against ggg*fitting that sell Morion as NEW and did sell FE 5680A as NEW. I did mail my very used sold as NEW back to them so someone will get it if you continue to buy from them. They agreed to reimburse me for shipping but as you see below now threaten me if I do not give them a positive review. Look at shipping cost some of it is off the top! It is time to take a breather and we will se a drop in prices. There is a limited market and we are at least 50% We in the description, indicate the is used. We have to make the best possible treatment, a full refund to you, and pay for shipping costs $13.17 If you don't change the positive 5 star feedback, we don't pay $13.17 to you!! To trouble you, I'm so sorry! I will not change my feedback ggg are crooks and they know it. Be carefully, there are other choices. Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/26/2012 1:42:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bell.pe...@gmail.com writes: I suspect a lot of the ebay sellers are buying stuff from Taobao and just reselling it. For example, this appears to be the original source of the FE-5680As which were supplied with the OCXO and socket (although he seems to have run out of OCXOs now) http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12204039399 - the price is interesting, too - 90 RMB (about $15). Of course, they generally won't ship to addresses outside China. The bit of his website dealing with oscillators is interesting, too (in Chinese, but lots of photos) - I suspect some of the other stuff being sold on ebay is being sourced from him: http://www.dz98.com/an.htm Regards, Pete Bell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
On 02/26/2012 05:20 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The paper mentions HC-40 crystals. They probably have the crystal drive current cranked down to optimize short term stability at 1 sec and longer. The phase noise floor takes a back seat. The other interesting thing in the paper is that the short term numbers shown aren't into parts in the 13th. Come to think of it, I never saw a good explanation as to why the crystal drive current really has this effect. I can only seem to recall hand-waving and experience show stuff. Could be I read it but forgot about it as I don't design crystal oscillators, only tend to use the once that others have designed and built for me. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Is this the paper you are speaking of? Google: Optimization of Drive-Level in High Stability Low-Noise OCXOs Thomas Knox From: li...@rtty.us Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:20:16 -0500 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Hi The paper mentions HC-40 crystals. They probably have the crystal drive current cranked down to optimize short term stability at 1 sec and longer. The phase noise floor takes a back seat. The other interesting thing in the paper is that the short term numbers shown aren't into parts in the 13th. Bob On Feb 25, 2012, at 9:11 PM, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote: Are the specs at 5 MHz or at 10? They should be 6 db worse at 10 than at 5. Now that I'm looking back at the data sheet posted with the auction, they were indeed specified at 5 MHz. But even after the 6 dB penalty, their spec limits versus their real-world numbers are pretty marginal. Morion actually announced this particular oscillator at IFCS 2002, so there's a paper of sorts: http://www.ke5fx.com/Morion_MV89A_IEEE_IFCS_2002.pdf . Figure 4 was taken from a 10 MHz part, but all three of the ones I've tested look like the attached. Same as figure 4 until about 200 Hz... then they never go any lower. -- john mv89a_pn.png ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?
In case anyone is following my progress, I started with EAGLE. It works fine on the Mac. I can tell it's not quite native (it even has a man(1) page!), but it's no problem. One afternoon with the tutorial, and I have a schematic. It's not yet complete, but that's not Eagle's fault: I'm still thinking about that current-loop driver, and the whole thing isn't even to the breadboard stage. Off to buy an 8255A and assorted parts somewhere. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
The other interesting thing in the paper is that the short term numbers shown aren't into parts in the 13th. The ADEV plot in figure 3 doesn't exactly show the oscillator in its best light. The right side of the 'bathtub' is well beyond 1000 seconds with these parts, if you actually let them warm up before you measure them. So the person who generated the plot either didn't allow sufficient warmup time, or they used a low-quality reference. The Ch A versus Ch B amplitudes are almost 3 dB apart, so they probably were not using another MV89A. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Knox Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 9:41 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Is this the paper you are speaking of? Google: Optimization of Drive-Level in High Stability Low-Noise OCXOs Thomas Knox That's not the one Bob (and I) was talking about, but there are some interesting contradictions between the paper you mentioned: http://www.magicxtal.com/articles/Optimization%20of%20Drive-Level%20in%20Hig h%20Stability%20Low-Noise%20OCXOs.PDF and Rakon's article: http://www.rakon.com/Products/Public%20Documents/Whitepapers/PHASE%20NOISE%2 0IN%20CRYSTAL%20OSCILLATORS.pdf The Rakon author states that the flicker and white PM regions, including the broadband floor, are influenced by factors other than the crystal (Figure 9). Meanwhile, the Russian authors of the first paper state repeatedly that the broadband noise floor is a function of the crystal current, and that close-in noise isn't affected by crystal current. It's obvious enough that high levels of crystal current are bad for long-term stability and aging, but it's not as easy to see why high crystal current in itself should rule out a good broadband noise floor. There are a lot of assertions in the literature, especially in the magicxtal.com paper, that are backed up by measurements but not by solid analysis. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Super cheap AVR USB boards
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 5:45 AM, cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:28:47 -0500, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you are shipping to North America, there are cheaper options. Bob Bob, I'm in N. America. What would those cheaper options be? Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
Hi Bert and all, Very few occasions items like we talk about is really pristine, I expect it to be used and only try to judge about how much milage it has. Most of the dumpster diver level re-circulation folks has low knowledge, and some excel and actually has a clue, but if only the pictures is their own and show some reasonable level of degradation and then I judge if I think there is a fair price or not for what roughly is being provided. So far I have not been scammed very hard. Most of the stuff has been within the expected level, but all that comes from makeing a decision of what to expect and what price is fair for that expectation. Cheers, Magnus On 02/26/2012 05:33 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Pete Thanks for the link. Now it explains where they come from and what condition they are in. Again I like to warn against ggg*fitting that sell Morion as NEW and did sell FE 5680A as NEW. I did mail my very used sold as NEW back to them so someone will get it if you continue to buy from them. They agreed to reimburse me for shipping but as you see below now threaten me if I do not give them a positive review. Look at shipping cost some of it is off the top! It is time to take a breather and we will se a drop in prices. There is a limited market and we are at least 50% We in the description, indicate the is used. We have to make the best possible treatment, a full refund to you, and pay for shipping costs $13.17 If you don't change the positive 5 star feedback, we don't pay $13.17 to you!! To trouble you, I'm so sorry! I will not change my feedback ggg are crooks and they know it. Be carefully, there are other choices. Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/26/2012 1:42:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bell.pe...@gmail.com writes: I suspect a lot of the ebay sellers are buying stuff from Taobao and just reselling it. For example, this appears to be the original source of the FE-5680As which were supplied with the OCXO and socket (although he seems to have run out of OCXOs now) http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12204039399 - the price is interesting, too - 90 RMB (about $15). Of course, they generally won't ship to addresses outside China. The bit of his website dealing with oscillators is interesting, too (in Chinese, but lots of photos) - I suspect some of the other stuff being sold on ebay is being sourced from him: http://www.dz98.com/an.htm Regards, Pete Bell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?
I use professionally. It was the best that our small company could afford. Here are some tips that will save you mucho grief. 1) This is the biggie. Make your own parts library. Then put any part that you have to create in that library. As well, put a copy of any standard library part in your library AFTER you've verified that the part, especially the footprint is valid. Then put that library under SubVersion or whatever version control system you use. I call my library 00johh.lbr. The 00 makes it appear first in the library list. 2) another biggie. Validate any part that you take from an Eagle library. They are recklessly careless with those parts. I've found silk screens on the solder side and even individual pins on the wrong side. I lost a board run only once because of this but it was enough to make me extremely paranoid. 3) LOOK AT YOUR GERBERS! It takes a pretty long while and it's tedious work (I print mine out on an 11X17 printer and check off every feature with a highlighter as I go) but it's vital. Eagle doesn't always produce Gerbers like the board appears on the screen. Especially if you get caught by #2 above. I use gerbv which is a Linux tool but I think there's a version for the mac's almost-unix OS. John On 02/26/2012 02:12 PM, Jim Hickstein wrote: In case anyone is following my progress, I started with EAGLE. It works fine on the Mac. I can tell it's not quite native (it even has a man(1) page!), but it's no problem. One afternoon with the tutorial, and I have a schematic. -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
I wonder how Wenzel looks at drive level, they seem to have their products dialed in. Thomas Knox From: jmi...@pop.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:48:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Knox Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 9:41 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Is this the paper you are speaking of? Google: Optimization of Drive-Level in High Stability Low-Noise OCXOs Thomas Knox That's not the one Bob (and I) was talking about, but there are some interesting contradictions between the paper you mentioned: http://www.magicxtal.com/articles/Optimization%20of%20Drive-Level%20in%20Hig h%20Stability%20Low-Noise%20OCXOs.PDF and Rakon's article: http://www.rakon.com/Products/Public%20Documents/Whitepapers/PHASE%20NOISE%2 0IN%20CRYSTAL%20OSCILLATORS.pdf The Rakon author states that the flicker and white PM regions, including the broadband floor, are influenced by factors other than the crystal (Figure 9). Meanwhile, the Russian authors of the first paper state repeatedly that the broadband noise floor is a function of the crystal current, and that close-in noise isn't affected by crystal current. It's obvious enough that high levels of crystal current are bad for long-term stability and aging, but it's not as easy to see why high crystal current in itself should rule out a good broadband noise floor. There are a lot of assertions in the literature, especially in the magicxtal.com paper, that are backed up by measurements but not by solid analysis. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Super cheap AVR USB boards
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:25:48 + (UTC) cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: Just ordered 10 of each (max) £4 http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-avr-usb-development-board.html £6 http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-32-avr-usb-development-board.html I you want to do uC development, why not get one of the STM32 Discovery boards? They come with a USB debuger interface on board, and you have a 32bit uC to work with. Yes, they are a little bit more expensive and a bit more bulky then the AVR, but when doing one of a kind devices, where development time (ie our free time) is at a premium, the simplification in development a 32bit uC gives you is quite substantial. (you don't have to worry about limited address space, or limited speed or limited resources... just use it) I just bought two STM32F4 discovery boards (the newer Cortex-M4 variant) from mouser (with a few other stuff) and got free shipping to Switzerland. It can't get much cheaper than that :-) Attila -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
Magnus My beef is that if you advertise NEW it should be NEW. I caught him once before and ebay made him change the listing. This time he had two listings one new and one used. I checked with him and paid extra for NEW and got the most banged up unit ever. All from the same stack. Finally got him to agree to pay for return shipping he wanted it back and I can show you correspondence where he states he can sell it for $ 60+ and when I gave a negative review he refused to pay unless I give him a 5 star+. Extortion look forward what ebay will say. All I can say is stay away from ggg*fitting, not like some of the other ones. Others cooperate according to some list members, Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/26/2012 5:22:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes: Hi Bert and all, Very few occasions items like we talk about is really pristine, I expect it to be used and only try to judge about how much milage it has. Most of the dumpster diver level re-circulation folks has low knowledge, and some excel and actually has a clue, but if only the pictures is their own and show some reasonable level of degradation and then I judge if I think there is a fair price or not for what roughly is being provided. So far I have not been scammed very hard. Most of the stuff has been within the expected level, but all that comes from makeing a decision of what to expect and what price is fair for that expectation. Cheers, Magnus On 02/26/2012 05:33 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Pete Thanks for the link. Now it explains where they come from and what condition they are in. Again I like to warn against ggg*fitting that sell Morion as NEW and did sell FE 5680A as NEW. I did mail my very used sold as NEW back to them so someone will get it if you continue to buy from them. They agreed to reimburse me for shipping but as you see below now threaten me if I do not give them a positive review. Look at shipping cost some of it is off the top! It is time to take a breather and we will se a drop in prices. There is a limited market and we are at least 50% We in the description, indicate the is used. We have to make the best possible treatment, a full refund to you, and pay for shipping costs $13.17 If you don't change the positive 5 star feedback, we don't pay $13.17 to you!! To trouble you, I'm so sorry! I will not change my feedback ggg are crooks and they know it. Be carefully, there are other choices. Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/26/2012 1:42:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bell.pe...@gmail.com writes: I suspect a lot of the ebay sellers are buying stuff from Taobao and just reselling it. For example, this appears to be the original source of the FE-5680As which were supplied with the OCXO and socket (although he seems to have run out of OCXOs now) http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12204039399 - the price is interesting, too - 90 RMB (about $15). Of course, they generally won't ship to addresses outside China. The bit of his website dealing with oscillators is interesting, too (in Chinese, but lots of photos) - I suspect some of the other stuff being sold on ebay is being sourced from him: http://www.dz98.com/an.htm Regards, Pete Bell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Super cheap AVR USB boards
Hi I just did a quick Google search after seeing the shipping. I have not dealt with any of the guys who turned up. That makes me a bit hesitant to pass out any names. Bob On Feb 26, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 5:45 AM, cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:28:47 -0500, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you are shipping to North America, there are cheaper options. Bob Bob, I'm in N. America. What would those cheaper options be? Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?
Hi Verifying Gerbers on a trace by trace basis for a moderately complex multi-layer design could take a very long time. If you can't trust the program to go from the screen to the Gerbers, I'd say - find a new program... A bug like that nullifies any value from schematic checking or DRC. Bob On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:36 PM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: I use professionally. It was the best that our small company could afford. Here are some tips that will save you mucho grief. 1) This is the biggie. Make your own parts library. Then put any part that you have to create in that library. As well, put a copy of any standard library part in your library AFTER you've verified that the part, especially the footprint is valid. Then put that library under SubVersion or whatever version control system you use. I call my library 00johh.lbr. The 00 makes it appear first in the library list. 2) another biggie. Validate any part that you take from an Eagle library. They are recklessly careless with those parts. I've found silk screens on the solder side and even individual pins on the wrong side. I lost a board run only once because of this but it was enough to make me extremely paranoid. 3) LOOK AT YOUR GERBERS! It takes a pretty long while and it's tedious work (I print mine out on an 11X17 printer and check off every feature with a highlighter as I go) but it's vital. Eagle doesn't always produce Gerbers like the board appears on the screen. Especially if you get caught by #2 above. I use gerbv which is a Linux tool but I think there's a version for the mac's almost-unix OS. John On 02/26/2012 02:12 PM, Jim Hickstein wrote: In case anyone is following my progress, I started with EAGLE. It works fine on the Mac. I can tell it's not quite native (it even has a man(1) page!), but it's no problem. One afternoon with the tutorial, and I have a schematic. -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Super cheap AVR USB boards
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:42:46 +0100 Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:25:48 + (UTC) cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: Just ordered 10 of each (max) £4 http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-avr-usb-development-board.html £6 http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-32-avr-usb-development-board.html I you want to do uC development, why not get one of the STM32 Discovery boards? They come with a USB debuger interface on board, and you have a 32bit uC to work with. Yes, they are a little bit more expensive and a bit more bulky then the AVR, but when doing one of a kind devices, where development time (ie our free time) is at a premium, the simplification in development a 32bit uC gives you is quite substantial. (you don't have to worry about limited address space, or limited speed or limited resources... just use it) I just bought two STM32F4 discovery boards (the newer Cortex-M4 variant) from mouser (with a few other stuff) and got free shipping to Switzerland. It can't get much cheaper than that :-) Attila I develop with micro's ranging from 128bytes sram, 2048bytes flash, up to arm soc's with several gigabytes of flash and hundreds of megabytes of sram, complete with OS. I personally prefer the smaller micros because they are challenging, and provoke a different kind of thinking than if i were to use a soc board with an OS. Large and small each have their own application, and reasoning. Sometimes limitations can be a source of inspiration and allow us to find solutions to problems we would have never known to exist otherwise. Likewise, the abstraction of larger devices should not be avoided either as it teaches us how to implement and manage a complex solution. In short, I highly recommend that everyone own, use, and contribute to both large and small devices alike. Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi Most people put the best of the batch in the paper. It is indeed odd that the very experienced authors of the paper did not do so. With low drive a 5 MHz HC-40 should get into parts in the thirteenth over much of the bathtub region. Bob On Feb 26, 2012, at 3:22 PM, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote: The other interesting thing in the paper is that the short term numbers shown aren't into parts in the 13th. The ADEV plot in figure 3 doesn't exactly show the oscillator in its best light. The right side of the 'bathtub' is well beyond 1000 seconds with these parts, if you actually let them warm up before you measure them. So the person who generated the plot either didn't allow sufficient warmup time, or they used a low-quality reference. The Ch A versus Ch B amplitudes are almost 3 dB apart, so they probably were not using another MV89A. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?
I've used EAGLE for about ten years. I strongly agree with what NeonJohn wrote below. I don't know if it is still the case, but when I started using EAGLE all of the library parts were on metric spacing (including DIPs and SMDs). This causes all sorts of headaches when doing a layout on inch spacing; traces don't meet the pads. I ended up creating my own libraries using the EAGLE libraries as a guide. I had one main library (1_main.lbr) for standard parts and additional libraries of specialized parts for each project. Brent On 2/26/2012 3:36 PM, NeonJohn wrote: I use professionally. It was the best that our small company could afford. Here are some tips that will save you mucho grief. 1) This is the biggie. Make your own parts library. Then put any part that you have to create in that library. As well, put a copy of any standard library part in your library AFTER you've verified that the part, especially the footprint is valid. Then put that library under SubVersion or whatever version control system you use. I call my library 00johh.lbr. The 00 makes it appear first in the library list. 2) another biggie. Validate any part that you take from an Eagle library. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Odetics 365 date/1024 week problem fix
I have owned an Odetics 365 GPStar Plus Time And Frequency System for some time and it works fine except for the annoying date problem that apparently has something to do with the fairly common 1024 weeks limit where older GPS receivers display 2012 as 1992 and the day of the year is not correct. I couldn't just change receivers because there appeared to be some routines in the firmware that checked the receiver model and interpreted the data for specific models that Odetics could have used in the late 1990s. This 365 used a Magellan 5000 OEM receiver. I recently got a good deal on a FEI-Zyfer (Odetics) 565 that looks like the 365 and it was sold as-is because there was just a backlight but no display and the keypad was dead. What it turned out to be was the display contrast was turned way down and the 'beep' was turned off. The unit worked properly but as it was received it did look dead. I bought the 'dead' 565 hoping that maybe I could compare the two units and find a way to fix the 365 to display the date properly. Getting a fully operational 565 was a bonus. What was very interesting to me was that the 365 (~1998) and the 565 (~2005) had basically identical motherboards. The only difference I could see was one 27c010 eprom and the receiver and its adaptor board. I put the 565 eprom and receiver into the 365 and it became a 565 displaying the correct time and date and working exactly like the 565. The receiver in the 565 was a Motorola M12+ on a Synergy Systems adaptor board that made the M12+ look like an older and larger Motorola UT+ board to the 565. I tried a UT+ in place of the M12+ and it worked fine and the unit identified it properly as a UT+ V2.2. I then duplicated the eprom and made an adaptor board for the UT+ board because the Synergy Systems adaptor board for the M12+ would be too difficult to copy. The adaptor board I made just has the UT+, a 7805 3-terminal 5V regulator, a back-up super cap, and a 7404 buffer (1 inverter driving 3 in more in parallel) for the 1 PPS out. The RX and TX from the UT+ receiver are also connected so the 365 with the new eprom and receiver sees all the proper signals and works as a 565 should. I've attached a photo of the M12+ factory made board and the UT+ board I made so you can see what they look like. I thought that others who have run into this same problem might find this information helpful. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6787095870_1199bfd85d_b.jpg -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5061's on ebay - FIXED IT
Not being able to suppress my interests for too long, I explored my newly acquired 5061A this weekend. The problem was an oscillation in the A7 assembly, as determined by looking at the output at A7J6. I am not sure what I did to fix it but I removed all connections to the A7 and A8 assemblies, reconnected them, and no joy. I then removed the A7 assembly, checked the components that have frequently failed in the past on my other 5061A's, found no problems, loosened all the mounting screws for the PCB then re-tightened them, cleaned all the connections, reinstalled it, switched the 'HI' and 'LO' switch back and forth half a zillion times, left it in 'HI', adjusted the 2nd Harmonic to '40' on the meter, and, magically, everything worked. I suspect the problem will be back. I suspect a 'marginal' connection or a marginal component in the A7 assembly. I have some 'parts units' available for the next time the unit fails. Nonetheless, it has 'locked' for the past hour with a Beam I of about 13 nAmp, if my calculation is correct (-131.50 mV from the CS tube as connected to the cable from the tube to A7J1 and as measured with my Fluke 8050A with a 10 MOhm input resistance), and the output is 'locked' on my scope with it's trigger coming from my TBolt. I have ordered new batteries for the Option 02 battery pack although it even worked with only one 'dead' cell. I replaced the 'dead' cell with one that 'kinda works' from another old battery pack, and now even the backup battery pack is working, 'kinda'. Happy to answer any questions. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. L. Trantham Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:25 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5061's on ebay I'll do it. I work full time and this is my hobby. So, it may be a while before I get into it though. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:22 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5061's on ebay Interested ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?
NeonJohn wrote: I use professionally. It was the best that our small company could afford. Here are some tips that will save you mucho grief. 1) This is the biggie. Make your own parts library. Then put any part that you have to create in that library. As well, put a copy of any standard library part in your library AFTER you've verified that the part, especially the footprint is valid. Then put that library under SubVersion or whatever version control system you use. I call my library 00johh.lbr. The 00 makes it appear first in the library list. This is exactly right. I create a separate library for each board and name them starting with ! so they appear first in the list. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: We in the description, indicate the is used. We have to make the best possible treatment, a full refund to you, and pay for shipping costs $13.17 If you don't change the positive 5 star feedback, we don't pay $13.17 to you!! To trouble you, I'm so sorry! RIGHT AWAY. Please forward the above to eBay. They will warn the seller once, next time his account is closed. By eBay policy this is not even in the grey area about what sellers are not allowed to do. You really should as if people don't report this kind of stuff eBay will get even worse Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Odetics 365 date/1024 week problem fix
Hi Arthur, That's very interesing. I have a couple of 365's plus a spares unit. One needs the active antenna so is not in use. It would be great to put a UT+ into it. Any chance of a Binary file or copy of the 565 EPROM? Thanks, Robert G8RPI. From: Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, 27 February 2012, 0:22 Subject: [time-nuts] Odetics 365 date/1024 week problem fix I have owned an Odetics 365 GPStar Plus Time And Frequency System for some time and it works fine except for the annoying date problem that apparently has something to do with the fairly common 1024 weeks limit where older GPS receivers display 2012 as 1992 and the day of the year is not correct. I couldn't just change receivers because there appeared to be some routines in the firmware that checked the receiver model and interpreted the data for specific models that Odetics could have used in the late 1990s. This 365 used a Magellan 5000 OEM receiver. I recently got a good deal on a FEI-Zyfer (Odetics) 565 that looks like the 365 and it was sold as-is because there was just a backlight but no display and the keypad was dead. What it turned out to be was the display contrast was turned way down and the 'beep' was turned off. The unit worked properly but as it was received it did look dead. I bought the 'dead' 565 hoping that maybe I could compare the two units and find a way to fix the 365 to display the date properly. Getting a fully operational 565 was a bonus. What was very interesting to me was that the 365 (~1998) and the 565 (~2005) had basically identical motherboards. The only difference I could see was one 27c010 eprom and the receiver and its adaptor board. I put the 565 eprom and receiver into the 365 and it became a 565 displaying the correct time and date and working exactly like the 565. The receiver in the 565 was a Motorola M12+ on a Synergy Systems adaptor board that made the M12+ look like an older and larger Motorola UT+ board to the 565. I tried a UT+ in place of the M12+ and it worked fine and the unit identified it properly as a UT+ V2.2. I then duplicated the eprom and made an adaptor board for the UT+ board because the Synergy Systems adaptor board for the M12+ would be too difficult to copy. The adaptor board I made just has the UT+, a 7805 3-terminal 5V regulator, a back-up super cap, and a 7404 buffer (1 inverter driving 3 in more in parallel) for the 1 PPS out. The RX and TX from the UT+ receiver are also connected so the 365 with the new eprom and receiver sees all the proper signals and works as a 565 should. I've attached a photo of the M12+ factory made board and the UT+ board I made so you can see what they look like. I thought that others who have run into this same problem might find this information helpful. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6787095870_1199bfd85d_b.jpg -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
