Re: [time-nuts] Two PICTIC II bare boards for sale
It is easy to add a JTAG programming header to the TBolt display sold by fluke.l and others that are based on my design. The software is already written for the TBolt, the code is open source (in C), somewhat documented and available, the tools are free and the JTAG adapter is only $20. The cost of an LCD display and the Silabs toolstick is under $20. If anyone has any inclination to do something like that for a different model of GPS receiver, I cannot imagine a cheaper or easier way to get started. Didier KO4BB Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker. -Original Message- From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Two PICTIC II bare boards for sale Hey guys, im still looking to buy an optio 01 kit for my HP 58503A... if anyone happesn to know where I might pick one up, I would great appreciate it. Hi Mark, Postings like this are sort of ok, but not twice in a week. The 58503A itself is an exceptional device but the addition of the 01 kit (or the 58503B's that include the display/keyboard by default) make an especially beautiful and useful bench instrument. You probably don't know that these kits are quite rare and command a very high price. My suggestion is to keep an open search on eBay and one may show up within a year for under 500. You can sometimes find a used 58503B with display for around 1k. Or you cold hunt for a dead unit that still has the display, case, and buttons intact and use all the parts. Alternatively you can home-brew a nice LCD, Nixie, or VFD display for the 58503 using existing headers on the board or using SCPI over a RS232 tap. I think it would be a fun project; something you could share with the group. I suspect quite a number people would be interested. Furthermore, if you did it as a RS232 tap and enjoy microcontrollers, you could make it work with many different models (Z3801, 58503, 59551, Fury, and TBolts). /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FS: Datum 18636-04 Timing RX
Operating condition unknown; $10 + shipping. If someone can offer the pinout I'll power it up and test it. -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:45:27 +0200 Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, the problem is that I don't have anything running NTP... I'm searching for a packet dump: I should use it to quickly develop the response for a possible Lantronix XPort implementation. Feel free to use the attached one. If anyone needs more ntp data, please let me know Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ntp_tcpdump.pcap Description: application/vnd.tcpdump.pcap ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
OK, thank you. On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:45:27 +0200 Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, the problem is that I don't have anything running NTP... I'm searching for a packet dump: I should use it to quickly develop the response for a possible Lantronix XPort implementation. Feel free to use the attached one. If anyone needs more ntp data, please let me know Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Timing performance of servers
Fellow time-nuts, When spending time on a conference last week, I heard one interesting comment that they lost data due to bad timing on their Windows servers. Now, I know that the standard Windows uses SNTP in order to achieve the goal of having the timing of the machines sufficiently aligned to allow Kerberos authentication. SNTP suffice for that, as it needs to be a handful of minutes in line. If you need better performance than that, you should use NTP (and then download and install Meinbergs Windows-client for NTP). Then again, I would point out that for this type of data, it would most probably be better served on a Linux box. What should be a nice wake-up call for them would be a summation of how different strategies would give them clock precision of sufficient grade. So, does anyone know of such measurements presented anywhere? There are bits and pieces, but the ideal for this case would be if they where collected in one page/paper. This is an awareness thing, so that people can do a little more well-informed choices. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers
Dear Mangus, I will allow myself to share a comment on your thread. Timing on windows servers is not one of their plausible strengths. It was clearly pointed out during the SIM conference last week at CENAM. In fact there was an interesting discussion about the drawbacks when using NTP Windows based servers and all kind of NTP appliances compared to full size Linux based NTP servers. The example of what NIST is using nationwide for their servers set an example of good server hardware and linux to provide the nation's NTP pulse. I haven't done any experiments with Windows for NTP services, still it could be interesting as to set a benchmark while comparing it to the Linux boxes. I am currently trying out the Domain Time II NTP client from Symmetricom for the thesis. I have to come back to Symmetricom's Miguel García to decide on purchasing a Domain Time II NTP client kit. How is the Mainberg NTP client different from the Symmetricom version? Have you tried both? If not I will be more than glad to help comparing both if you can help me pointing out the source for a demo version of Mainberg's software. Maybe then an objective review of both clients will be in order, I will be more than glad to do it or to test them against Windows NTP services, appliances and/or Linux NTP boxes. I have at least an example of those at the office. -13 Just my 2x10 cents. Regards to you and the group, Edgardo Molina Dirección IPTEL www.iptel.net.mx T : 55 55 55202444 M : 04455 20501854 Piensa en Bits SA de CV Información anexa: CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION Este mensaje tiene carácter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electrónico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier propósito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias. NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you. On Oct 24, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Fellow time-nuts, When spending time on a conference last week, I heard one interesting comment that they lost data due to bad timing on their Windows servers. Now, I know that the standard Windows uses SNTP in order to achieve the goal of having the timing of the machines sufficiently aligned to allow Kerberos authentication. SNTP suffice for that, as it needs to be a handful of minutes in line. If you need better performance than that, you should use NTP (and then download and install Meinbergs Windows-client for NTP). Then again, I would point out that for this type of data, it would most probably be better served on a Linux box. What should be a nice wake-up call for them would be a summation of how different strategies would give them clock precision of sufficient grade. So, does anyone know of such measurements presented anywhere? There are bits and pieces, but the ideal for this case would be if they where collected in one page/paper. This is an awareness thing, so that people can do a little more well-informed choices. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5 MHz Racal MA259 / / Sulzer Crystal Oscillator
Hello, recently I couldn't resist to acquire one of these Racal MA259 units with a SA 500 crystal oscillator which was designed by Sulzer. What a beautiful piece of ancient high precision laboratory gear! Well, it wasn't claimed to still meet the specifications, but it was at least in a working condition. First I was surprised about the high frequency drift that was about 50 times as high as specified, that is, a few 1E-8's rather than the impatiently awaited 5E-10 per day. I could however observe the drift slowly getting down, and, after reading the manual, I was less concerned as it pointed out that the specified accuracy can be expected to be met after a full month of continuous operation. That was before I realized that the inner oven wasn't heating at all, and its temperature being low by a few degrees. So, I gotta have a look inside that huge cylinder with the large dewar flask inside. Unfortunately, the toroid transformer of the temperature bridge had developed a short beween the primary and secondary windings. I could burn the short out, but there is now some noise visible on the meter needle as well as, much slower of course, on the frequency stability plot. There might still be some conductivity left between the windings, or something else is noisy. Next I noticed that the meter reading of the oscillator amplitude was quite a bit off. I was already suspecting those infamous carbon composite resistors might have drifted as usual. So, I decided to replace every resistor in the oscillator, the buffer / amplitude control stage and the inner oven. Indeed, several of the resistors that set the oscillator amplitude were drifted by up to 100 percent and were even noisy on the ohmmeter. Probably not that great for a ultra high precision circuit... Well, ahould I have replaced the capacitors, too?? Now the amplitude is right, and the drift is starting to settle again. For the time being, I want to see how it stabilizes. Then come the next project to take care of the inner oven noise, and to fix the 100 kHz divider that has stopped working. Is there any information about the Sulzer desiagn available? Anyone who repaired one of these oscillators? Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation five cent demodulator / carrier regenerator ?
Hello Paul, I guess you tested it at 57 kHz? Were you able to get it to work with your simulator at the normal frequency? Does anyone have details on the test mode? I just picked up $3 worth. Regards, Tom - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation five cent demodulator / carrier regenerator ? Jameco had them on sale for 20 cents each so I purchased some. Moved the clock up frequency for 60 Khz and injected the 60Khz BPSK. (I built a simulator) It did not track and in general produced noise. I understand you can use 2 frequencies to drive it and I tried both from synth gens. I was looking at the RDS decoders and the data seemed to be differential. Set it aside at that point. I am curious as to why it did not work. Like everyone here would be great if it worked Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Dale J. Robertson d...@nap-us.com wrote: Paul, I'm trying to understand your reference to 'differential BPSK' all the RDS references I've looked at indicate a 180 degree phase shift just like WWVB. I'm thinking that differential and antipodal are just different words for the same thing Regards, Dale Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:03 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Because it use differential BPSK. I have a number of them and was trying it. There is a test pin that might make it useful. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Dale J. Robertson d...@nap-us.com wrote: While looking for other stuff I came across the data sheet for the NXP Semi SAA6579. The chip is a purpose built demodulator for RDS (which utilises a 57 KHz ABPSK subcarrier on FM broadcast that is) used for traffic, song info etc. This chip has an anti-aliasing front end low pass filter and an 8th order bandpass filter followed by a costas loop and provides a phase synchronous regenerated carrier. What's interesting is that the switched cap bandpass filter and the synchronous detector are both driven by clocks derived from a local crystal oscillator which is spec'd at 4.332 or 8.664 MHz (76 or 152 X carrier chosen by a mode select pin) I'm thinking it should be possible to use a 4.56 or 9.12 MHz crystal or external clock to use this chip as-is on 60 KHz. Have a look at the data sheet and tell me why I'm full of it. Jameco is closing out these chips in DIP-16 at a nickel apiece, $3.00/hundred. Dale NV8U __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Adjusting HP 5065A frequency
li...@rtty.us said: The gotcha with the DDS is phase truncation. That pretty much trashes the ADEV. Thanks. How should I think about the output of a DDS? Lets assume I'm interested in the frequency domain where the error is measured in phase noise. For a DDS, I think they are spurs. Suppose I have a clock running at 101 MHz and I want 10 MHz. Is the output 10 MHz with some spurs, or 10.1 MHz with some spurs? Are there rules of thumb for the size and location of the spurs? (given the input freq and output freq) -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers
Fellow time-nuts, When spending time on a conference last week, I heard one interesting comment that they lost data due to bad timing on their Windows servers. [] If you need better performance than that, you should use NTP (and then download and install Meinbergs Windows-client for NTP). Then again, I would point out that for this type of data, it would most probably be better served on a Linux box. What should be a nice wake-up call for them would be a summation of how different strategies would give them clock precision of sufficient grade. So, does anyone know of such measurements presented anywhere? [] Cheers, Magnus Magnus, If it helps, I have my own measurements of the Meinberg NTP port and later versions running on Windows here: http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php Strategy: 1 - have one FreeBSD (not Linux) server, although this is now not essential, but it's nice as a confirmation that the rest is working OK. 2 - Configure some Windows PCs as stratum-1 servers fed from GPS. On the plots above, PCs Alta, Bacchus, Feenix and Stamsund are acting as stratum-1 servers. These all have serial port connections, and cover the OS range Windows 2000, XP, Win-7/32 and Win-7/64. All are using the kernel-mode serial port driver patch developed by Dave Hart. PC Pixie is the FreeBSD box. 3 - For the client PCs, use a fixed 32-second polling interval to the local stratum-1 servers, with Internet servers as a backup polled at 1024 seconds, resulting in a configuration file something like: ___ # Use drift file driftfile C:\Tools\NTP\etc\ntp.drift # Use specific local NTP servers server 192.168.0.3iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5 prefer# Pixie server 192.168.0.2iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5# Feenix server 192.168.0.7iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5# Stamsund # Use pool NTP servers pool uk.pool.ntp.orgiburstminpoll 10 ___ The client performance varies, with some of the best results being on a Windows-8 Wi-Fi connected PC which seems to have very good drivers (PC Bergen). Jitter is 40 - 110 microseconds. Windows XP also shows low jitter, but greater offset (within 250 microseconds). Windows Vista was the worst performer I had, but that PC has now been retired. There are discussions in progress at the moment about improving Windows-Vista and Windows-7 as a Windows time interval setting and reporting bug has been discovered, particularly affecting NTP. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers
Just a FYI here, using Dave's logging program, I found large errors in NTP when the antivirus did its thing. I don't know if it was due to CPU activity interfering with NTP or the cabinet heating up when the antivirus was running. -Original Message- From: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:03:44 To: Time-Nutstime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers Fellow time-nuts, When spending time on a conference last week, I heard one interesting comment that they lost data due to bad timing on their Windows servers. [] If you need better performance than that, you should use NTP (and then download and install Meinbergs Windows-client for NTP). Then again, I would point out that for this type of data, it would most probably be better served on a Linux box. What should be a nice wake-up call for them would be a summation of how different strategies would give them clock precision of sufficient grade. So, does anyone know of such measurements presented anywhere? [] Cheers, Magnus Magnus, If it helps, I have my own measurements of the Meinberg NTP port and later versions running on Windows here: http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php Strategy: 1 - have one FreeBSD (not Linux) server, although this is now not essential, but it's nice as a confirmation that the rest is working OK. 2 - Configure some Windows PCs as stratum-1 servers fed from GPS. On the plots above, PCs Alta, Bacchus, Feenix and Stamsund are acting as stratum-1 servers. These all have serial port connections, and cover the OS range Windows 2000, XP, Win-7/32 and Win-7/64. All are using the kernel-mode serial port driver patch developed by Dave Hart. PC Pixie is the FreeBSD box. 3 - For the client PCs, use a fixed 32-second polling interval to the local stratum-1 servers, with Internet servers as a backup polled at 1024 seconds, resulting in a configuration file something like: ___ # Use drift file driftfile C:\Tools\NTP\etc\ntp.drift # Use specific local NTP servers server 192.168.0.3iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5 prefer# Pixie server 192.168.0.2iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5# Feenix server 192.168.0.7iburstminpoll 5 maxpoll 5# Stamsund # Use pool NTP servers pool uk.pool.ntp.orgiburstminpoll 10 ___ The client performance varies, with some of the best results being on a Windows-8 Wi-Fi connected PC which seems to have very good drivers (PC Bergen). Jitter is 40 - 110 microseconds. Windows XP also shows low jitter, but greater offset (within 250 microseconds). Windows Vista was the worst performer I had, but that PC has now been retired. There are discussions in progress at the moment about improving Windows-Vista and Windows-7 as a Windows time interval setting and reporting bug has been discovered, particularly affecting NTP. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Two PICTIC II bare boards for sale
A number of people have asked for information about the VFD display/key option on the 58503A. I'll take one apart next week, but meanwhile here are some photos for those of you who have not seen what the display looks like: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/58503a-01/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
