Re: [time-nuts] FE-5682A coming, any info?
Ziggy Bob and paul, I'll open it up and check. I have a pair of lab psu to test the unit and a pair of FE5680 to compare the timing. Thank you all for the useful info. Fabio. This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] My MINI TIC implementation
Attached is a block diagram of how I am using the MINI TIC. I use a wall-wart feeding two DC to DC convertors for the +- 5VDC. The dual one shot IC is an LS221 that drives two LEDS. I used LS14 schmitt triggers on the input as their trigger level closely matched the pulse transformer output of my DMTD unit. It's working very well for me! Corby Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50ae689638e9668962c7ast03duc2cminiblockg.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5682A coming, any info?
Good luck and remember that when it starts the current will be much higher then when it runs. As I recall I think 2 amps when warm 750 ma... On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Fabio Eboli fabi...@quipo.it wrote: Ziggy Bob and paul, I'll open it up and check. I have a pair of lab psu to test the unit and a pair of FE5680 to compare the timing. Thank you all for the useful info. Fabio. --**--** This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation scheme monograph
Are there any commercial products using this new phase-shift modulation scheme? Larry On 11/3/2012 4:32 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: This has probably already been posted more than once, but if anyone is still looking for a description of the new WWVB modulation scheme: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2651.pdf (Sept. 2012) ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation scheme monograph
It depends on what you mean: First off, the phase modulation renders many existing phase tracking receivers useless. Period. A few current receivers are immune to the PSK, but they do not 'use' the PSK modulation, but they just ignore it. My understanding is, the new modulation was designed using an SBIR grant, and a proprietary chip designed and tested with taxpayer money. AFAIK there is no other source, so the company that did the SBIR now has a monopoly. -John === Are there any commercial products using this new phase-shift modulation scheme? Larry On 11/3/2012 4:32 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: This has probably already been posted more than once, but if anyone is still looking for a description of the new WWVB modulation scheme: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2651.pdf (Sept. 2012) ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation
I realize this modulation scheme change is perceived as a sensitive subject. But, really, since the full scheme is fully disclosed no company has a monopoly on its use. My question is, will this new scheme offer enough advantages to merit the production of commercial equipment to use it, and ultimately whether low-cost equipment will be sufficiently advantageous to merit its design and production in volume like the typical WWVB digital clocks prevalent today. Does the company that worked with NIST on the development have a product now that uses the new scheme? Larry On 11/22/2012 11:42 AM, J. Forster wrote: It depends on what you mean: First off, the phase modulation renders many existing phase tracking receivers useless. Period. A few current receivers are immune to the PSK, but they do not 'use' the PSK modulation, but they just ignore it. My understanding is, the new modulation was designed using an SBIR grant, and a proprietary chip designed and tested with taxpayer money. AFAIK there is no other source, so the company that did the SBIR now has a monopoly. -John === Are there any commercial products using this new phase-shift modulation scheme? Larry On 11/3/2012 4:32 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: This has probably already been posted more than once, but if anyone is still looking for a description of the new WWVB modulation scheme: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2651.pdf (Sept. 2012) ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5682A coming, any info?
Hi At 48 volts I would expect the startup to be well below an amp... Bob On Nov 22, 2012, at 12:51 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Good luck and remember that when it starts the current will be much higher then when it runs. As I recall I think 2 amps when warm 750 ma... On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Fabio Eboli fabi...@quipo.it wrote: Ziggy Bob and paul, I'll open it up and check. I have a pair of lab psu to test the unit and a pair of FE5680 to compare the timing. Thank you all for the useful info. Fabio. --**--** This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation
On 11/22/12 12:12 PM, Larry McDavid wrote: I realize this modulation scheme change is perceived as a sensitive subject. But, really, since the full scheme is fully disclosed no company has a monopoly on its use. Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. My question is, will this new scheme offer enough advantages to merit the production of commercial equipment to use it, and ultimately whether low-cost equipment will be sufficiently advantageous to merit its design and production in volume like the typical WWVB digital clocks prevalent today. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] MT3339 chipset in Globaltop's FGPMMOPA6H
Hello, while asking info about the FE5682, I realized that for another project (model plane data logging) I will buy some cheap gps modules built around an MT3339 chipset. In my mind somewhere I stored the fact that in the datasheet of these module is mentioned the pps output, so I checked and the manufacturer is claiming that it has High accuracy 1-PPS timing support for Timing Applications (10ns jitter) This is the module I'm talking about: http://www.mirifica.it/store/gps/342-globaltop-fgpmmopa6h-pa6h.html http://www.alcom.be/binarydata.aspx?type=doc/GTop-FGPMMOPA6H-Datasheet-V0A.pdf Has anybody used this chipset or similar for GPSDO? I have no experience with discipled oscillators but if there is any hope that the pps out of these modules is good for the task maybe it's time for me to start reading more about the subject. The final goal will be to check the timing of the Rb I have around. Thanks, Fabio. This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MT3339 chipset in Globaltop's FGPMMOPA6H
In my opinion, you should read about GPSDOs anyway. The availability of a precise PPS or not, should not prevent you from increasing your knowledge. On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Fabio Eboli fabi...@quipo.it wrote: Hello, while asking info about the FE5682, I realized that for another project (model plane data logging) I will buy some cheap gps modules built around an MT3339 chipset. In my mind somewhere I stored the fact that in the datasheet of these module is mentioned the pps output, so I checked and the manufacturer is claiming that it has High accuracy 1-PPS timing support for Timing Applications (10ns jitter) This is the module I'm talking about: http://www.mirifica.it/store/gps/342-globaltop-fgpmmopa6h-pa6h.html http://www.alcom.be/binarydata.aspx?type=doc/GTop-FGPMMOPA6H-Datasheet-V0A.pdf Has anybody used this chipset or similar for GPSDO? I have no experience with discipled oscillators but if there is any hope that the pps out of these modules is good for the task maybe it's time for me to start reading more about the subject. The final goal will be to check the timing of the Rb I have around. Thanks, Fabio. This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5682A coming, any info?
I hope so, the 5680 takes approx 22W on startup, if it is the same on the 5682 that shuld be less than 1/2A Fabio. Hi At 48 volts I would expect the startup to be well below an amp... Bob On Nov 22, 2012, at 12:51 PM, paul swed paulswedb at gmail.com wrote: Good luck and remember that when it starts the current will be much higher then when it runs. As I recall I think 2 amps when warm 750 ma... This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation
I believe they have a design that is working in silicon. If so, that's a $ million or more head start. That, to me, is a monopoly because any other entrant to the market would have to amortize that expense. Furthermore, there is the issue of patent suits, even if you can design around their technology. YMMV, -John = On 11/22/12 12:12 PM, Larry McDavid wrote: I realize this modulation scheme change is perceived as a sensitive subject. But, really, since the full scheme is fully disclosed no company has a monopoly on its use. Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. My question is, will this new scheme offer enough advantages to merit the production of commercial equipment to use it, and ultimately whether low-cost equipment will be sufficiently advantageous to merit its design and production in volume like the typical WWVB digital clocks prevalent today. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MT3339 chipset in Globaltop's FGPMMOPA6H
I guess you are right :) Let's put this way: I will try to use that module's pps to try to build a GPSDO, or I'll try to discipline one of the Rb oscillators, once I will have gathered enough reading material. Unless of course somebody tried before and found show stoppers with such modules. Fabio. P.S. Sorry for non-threading mails, probably I'll have the issue sorted with the next messages. In my opinion, you should read about GPSDOs anyway. The availability of a precise PPS or not, should not prevent you from increasing your knowledge. On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Fabio Eboli FabioEb at quipo.it wrote: Hello, while asking info about the FE5682, This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MT3339 chipset in Globaltop's FGPMMOPA6H
In my mind somewhere I stored the fact that in the datasheet of these module is mentioned the pps output, so I checked and the manufacturer is claiming that it has High accuracy 1-PPS timing support for Timing Applications (10ns jitter) High accuracy is marketing BS. You need to look at the numbers. 10 ns is better than many similar chips. Has anybody used this chipset or similar for GPSDO? I have no experience with discipled oscillators but if there is any hope that the pps out of these modules is good for the task maybe it's time for me to start reading more about the subject. A key idea in this area is hanging bridges. Lots of good info here: Tom Clark and Rick Hambly: Timing for VLBI http://gpstime.com/files/tow-time2009.pdf More here: Motorola GPS M12+ Sawtooth http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/m12/sawtooth.htm -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 95
So doesn't this put us back to the same situation as when Heathkit got a patent for their Most Accurate Clock kit that used the timecode from the HF signals on WWV and WWVH? No one wanted to make radio clocks because of the patent. Has there been any talk about how available the chip will be? My attitude is that I'll build whatever I want to for myself. Mike Harpe, N4PLE I realize this modulation scheme change is perceived as a sensitive subject. But, really, since the full scheme is fully disclosed no company has a monopoly on its use. Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. My question is, will this new scheme offer enough advantages to merit the production of commercial equipment to use it, and ultimately whether low-cost equipment will be sufficiently advantageous to merit its design and production in volume like the typical WWVB digital clocks prevalent today. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation
jim...@earthlink.net said: Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. What's the fine print in this area? Does NIST have any PR blurbs covering patents? Common sense, politics, and patents makes for a horrible mess. I think I'd be happy if the developing company got a head start. That could be a reasonable trade for a lot of engineering/support during testing. I think I'd be unhappy if they got a patent on a receiving technique that was obvious to one skilled in the art (or whatever the magic patent phrase is) after you looked at the description of the modulation/encoding technique. That's assuming that NIST didn't get a broad free-to-use license for that patent for listening to WWVB. Another way to view this mess is the general topic of patents in standards. WWVB isn't in the same class of standards as IETF/IEEE/ANSI/ISO type documents, but given that it's a government monopoly, it's as good (or better) than any other standard. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation
Hal, It is worse than that ! John P Lowe, Broadcast Manager for NIST, stated to me that HE was the person who invented the new modulation scheme. If that is the case then it belongs to all of us. AND that is, precisely, why they are publishing this modulation scheme. What I find interesting is this private company started up while JP Lowe was inventing this modulation scheme and requesting patents at the same time. Does the word COLLUSION come to mind ? Yet JP lowe claims he has no stake or interest in this new company. WELL, I am having a hard time with that very point. Equally interesting is that no public input was sought prior to considering this modulation scheme. Why is that you ask ? Most likely because everyone that actually uses 60 KHz for what it was intended for would be raising hell about it. What about the public ? This new scheme is suppose to allow for additional services. What could you possibly add that would be of advantage that is not available in a number of easier methods like AM/FM radio and TV for disseminating information. This, of course, completely ignores the Internet. As it is now, the public buys WWVB clocks because they really believe the damn thing is accurate, which it is truly not. So, to cut down on the controversy, they wait till they are ready to do it and then just spring on us like it is a done deal. As most people are rather passive in nature, they knew no major negative fallout would occur. Fallout being like a large group of people petitioning their representatives against it and so forth. Making it worse is the fact that all the major time and frequency companies abandoned their 60 KHz equipment line in favor of GPS. Sure GPS is better than 60 KHz, but one of these days something is going to f**kup the GPS system enough to cause problems. They already got rid of LORAN and they will probably find a way to get rid VOR, so flying will become an F ticket ride. This modulation scheme is just another blunder, not unlike Lightsquared, manipulating the public TEAT to pay for it. Oh, just my two cents, BillWB6BNQ Hal Murray wrote: jim...@earthlink.net said: Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. What's the fine print in this area? Does NIST have any PR blurbs covering patents? Common sense, politics, and patents makes for a horrible mess. I think I'd be happy if the developing company got a head start. That could be a reasonable trade for a lot of engineering/support during testing. I think I'd be unhappy if they got a patent on a receiving technique that was obvious to one skilled in the art (or whatever the magic patent phrase is) after you looked at the description of the modulation/encoding technique. That's assuming that NIST didn't get a broad free-to-use license for that patent for listening to WWVB. Another way to view this mess is the general topic of patents in standards. WWVB isn't in the same class of standards as IETF/IEEE/ANSI/ISO type documents, but given that it's a government monopoly, it's as good (or better) than any other standard. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MT3339 chipset in Globaltop's FGPMMOPA6H
Hello, while asking info about the FE5682, I realized that for another project (model plane data logging) I will buy some cheap gps modules built around an MT3339 chipset. In my mind somewhere I stored the fact that in the datasheet of these module is mentioned the pps output, so I checked and the manufacturer is claiming that it has High accuracy 1-PPS timing support for Timing Applications (10ns jitter) This is the module I'm talking about: http://www.mirifica.it/store/gps/342-globaltop-fgpmmopa6h-pa6h.html http://www.alcom.be/binarydata.aspx?type=doc/GTop-FGPMMOPA6H-Datasheet-V0A.pdf Has anybody used this chipset or similar for GPSDO? I have no experience with discipled oscillators but if there is any hope that the pps out of these modules is good for the task maybe it's time for me to start reading more about the subject. The final goal will be to check the timing of the Rb I have around. Thanks, Fabio. = Fabio, I bought one of these modules to play with, and it does indeed have a 1 PPS output. However, there's no mention of sawtooth correction in the data sheet, and its 15 mm square antenna may render it less sensitive tan modules with a larger (e.g. 25 mm square) antenna. This may not matter for outdoor applications. My use is with a Raspberry Pi for NTP, so sub-microsecond accuracy is good enough for me. Ciao, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
