Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: > As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a > limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. > > It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped > at what I assume is operating temperature. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
From: Hal Murray I think the OP wants "UTC time from a GPS" rather than "GPS time". In case, it should be simple. But even if it /was/ GPS time, couldn't a set of simple "fudge" statements in the NTP configuration provide that? OK, you would need to change the fudge lines when the GPS to UTC offset changed... I think that would work. Another complication is that there isn't any fudge offset for other servers (non refclocks) so you can't use normal servers running on UTC as a sanity check. === Oh, if you can't use a fudge on other servers, that's a pity, and I wouldn't then trust such a fiddled clock. Mind you, I can quite understand why it's not allowed! Thanks, Hal. David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Paul, i think 8 min is stated somewhere... Sent From iPhone On Aug 22, 2013, at 18:10, Paul wrote: > As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a > limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. > > It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped > at what I assume is operating temperature. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
I can't directly speak to a PRS 10 but from the hp 5065 to FE's and FRS 20-40 minutes would be typical. The newer smaller ones seem to be within 20 minutes. They are below .2 Hz when locked. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Paul wrote: > As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a > limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. > > It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped > at what I assume is operating temperature. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
Hi David Yes I did not make myself clear but I am looking for UTC time from a GPS. Thanks for all your references which I will work through and see how I go. Regards Rex VK7MO -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David J Taylor Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013 6:24 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time From: Hal Murray I think you are missing the big picture. The OP wanted GPS time. NTP isn't setup to work with GPS time rather than UTC. [] = I think the OP wants "UTC time from a GPS" rather than "GPS time". But even if it /was/ GPS time, couldn't a set of simple "fudge" statements in the NTP configuration provide that? OK, you would need to change the fudge lines when the GPS to UTC offset changed... Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ***SPAM*** NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
The World's Most Precise Clock Could Prove Einstein Wrong http://tinyurl.com/kuwhq47 http://www.npr.org/2013/08/22/214186448/the-worlds-most-precise-clock-could-pr ove-einstein-wrong Audio is 4:12 Nice picture. "This may look like a mad scientist's garage sale, but it's actually the most precise clock ever built." What a makes a good clock? Andrew Ludlow, a physicist at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, says one of the most important criteria is stability. ... That's not much of an effect, but it's big enough for most atomic clocks to measure. And Ludlow's clock can register the change in gravity across a single inch of elevation. That kind of sensitivity will allow scientists to test Einstein's theories with greater precision in the real world. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
> I think the OP wants "UTC time from a GPS" rather than "GPS time". In case, it should be simple. > But even if it /was/ GPS time, couldn't a set of simple "fudge" statements > in the NTP configuration provide that? OK, you would need to change the > fudge lines when the GPS to UTC offset changed... I think that would work. Another complication is that there isn't any fudge offset for other servers (non refclocks) so you can't use normal servers running on UTC as a sanity check. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Halcyon OFS-1 Circuit Diagram or Manual?
Hi Mike I have had a Halcyon OFS-1 for 20 years and been looking for a manual/circuit during that time. Mine was bought from Halcyon and came with an A4 sheet of paper !Not alignment instructions!! I have been looking for detail ever since. I would certainly be interested to see a copy of the alignment instructions. I very nearly ripped mine apart several years ago when I found the output phase "breathing" with a period of about 100 seconds. After double checking my local standards and using another receiver, I contacted Peter Whibberly at NPL and they had not seen it because they integrate over a much longer period to get parts in 10^12. I was put in touch with an engineer at Droitwich, he looked but didnt find anything wrong (they did not have an off-air standard!) However the problem improved at the time of the inpection -)) Subsequently I got an email from Peter about 6 weeks later saying that the synthersizer had failed completely !! After the repair the phase drift against my local standard was much better and probably at the limit of short term daytime off-air measurementI couple of parts in 10^11 My case is a cream textured finish in two identical parts. The rear panel has a ferrite antenna hinged to it, though an expernal antenna can be used. I believe some of the later units locked an ovened oscillator and contained a dil-switch set synthersizer to generate quasi-synch carrier frequencies. It may be you have an OFS pcb out of one of these that has been recased?? Best Wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Mike Niven" To: Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Halcyon OFS-1 Circuit Diagram or Manual? I have acquired an old working 198kHz/162kHz off-air frequency standard that appears to be a Halcyon OFS1 circuit board mounted in a DIY case. I think this since it came with a sheet of alignment instructions from Halcyon which certainly ties up with the PCB layout but the case is not made to professional standards. So, nice enough looking, but with no manufacturer's logo or model number to really identify it. If it is an OFS1, would anybody have a circuit diagram or manual to enable me to confirm my theory? I can't find very much on the web about Halcyon products as the company is long gone. Many thanks. Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola Oncore UT just powered up?
Yeah. I can't think of any reason that it would need the TRAIM messages - I thnk it's just being reported so that the official software can get access to the information. I'm not sure where the date is coming from - there is no battery on the UT+ in the RTFG-m-XO, and the cable I was using to get that dump doesn't have the TX data line connected, so it can't have come from the PC. The other thing is that I don't have a log of the input data to the receiver, just the outputs - but I'm pretty sure that the Oncore generates an output message for every input message it sees, so just the outputs should be enough. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Alan Kamrowski II wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thank you for posting this - it is interesting. > > An @@Ea message only occurs once every 5 seconds? > > It seems odd that it comes up with 08-11-2017 at 12:00:00 > > My RFTGm-II-Rb doesn't seem to mind it isn't getting the @@En messages... > > Thanks, > > Alan > > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Peter Bell > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 9:27 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola > Oncore UT just powered up? > > The board on it's own comes up in a mode that doesn't send anything until > it's initialized. The RFTG-m-XO is responsible for setting up the board. > This is what you see on the RX line after powerup: > > Note that this is from WinOncore - the real data doesn't have the (Rx) > prefix and the data is in binary rather than hex. After this, it repeats > with one @@En message sent for every 12 @@Ea messages > > > (Rx)@@Fa 8000 > (Rx)@@Fa 8000 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Aw 00 > (Rx)@@Ay > (Rx)@@Az > (Rx)@@At 00 > (Rx)@@Ag 0A > (Rx)@@En > > 3C01000D01010001010202D009191B2FAF080013 > 16142FAF0800022FAF080005 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0005810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C000A810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C000F810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0014810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0019810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C001E810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0023810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0028810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C002D810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0032810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0037810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > (Rx)@@Ea > > 081107E10C0100810900 > 19001B001300160014000200050009 > > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Alan Kamrowski II > wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > I'm converting a Neo 6M GPS data stream to the Motorla Oncore UT data > > stream my RFTG expects. When first turned on the 6M doesn't have a > > 1pps signal yet, but does post NMEA messages which lack data are > > invalid. My question is, what does the binary data stream from a > > Motorola Oncore UT look like? > > It is binary so if anyone has one and can capture a power on in hex > > that would be very helpful. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and foll
[time-nuts] Halcyon OFS-1 Circuit Diagram or Manual?
I have acquired an old working 198kHz/162kHz off-air frequency standard that appears to be a Halcyon OFS1 circuit board mounted in a DIY case. I think this since it came with a sheet of alignment instructions from Halcyon which certainly ties up with the PCB layout but the case is not made to professional standards. So, nice enough looking, but with no manufacturer's logo or model number to really identify it. If it is an OFS1, would anybody have a circuit diagram or manual to enable me to confirm my theory? I can't find very much on the web about Halcyon products as the company is long gone. Many thanks. Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola Oncore UT just powered up?
Hi Peter, Thank you for posting this - it is interesting. An @@Ea message only occurs once every 5 seconds? It seems odd that it comes up with 08-11-2017 at 12:00:00 My RFTGm-II-Rb doesn't seem to mind it isn't getting the @@En messages... Thanks, Alan -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bell Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 9:27 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola Oncore UT just powered up? The board on it's own comes up in a mode that doesn't send anything until it's initialized. The RFTG-m-XO is responsible for setting up the board. This is what you see on the RX line after powerup: Note that this is from WinOncore - the real data doesn't have the (Rx) prefix and the data is in binary rather than hex. After this, it repeats with one @@En message sent for every 12 @@Ea messages (Rx)@@Fa 8000 (Rx)@@Fa 8000 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Aw 00 (Rx)@@Ay (Rx)@@Az (Rx)@@At 00 (Rx)@@Ag 0A (Rx)@@En 3C01000D01010001010202D009191B2FAF080013 16142FAF0800022FAF080005 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0005810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C000A810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C000F810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0014810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0019810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C001E810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0023810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0028810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C002D810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0032810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0037810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C0100810900 19001B001300160014000200050009 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Alan Kamrowski II wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > I'm converting a Neo 6M GPS data stream to the Motorla Oncore UT data > stream my RFTG expects. When first turned on the 6M doesn't have a > 1pps signal yet, but does post NMEA messages which lack data are > invalid. My question is, what does the binary data stream from a > Motorola Oncore UT look like? > It is binary so if anyone has one and can capture a power on in hex > that would be very helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Alan > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola Oncore UT just powered up?
The board on it's own comes up in a mode that doesn't send anything until it's initialized. The RFTG-m-XO is responsible for setting up the board. This is what you see on the RX line after powerup: Note that this is from WinOncore - the real data doesn't have the (Rx) prefix and the data is in binary rather than hex. After this, it repeats with one @@En message sent for every 12 @@Ea messages (Rx)@@Fa 8000 (Rx)@@Fa 8000 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C81090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Aw 00 (Rx)@@Ay (Rx)@@Az (Rx)@@At 00 (Rx)@@Ag 0A (Rx)@@En 3C01000D01010001010202D009191B2FAF08001316142FAF0800022FAF080005 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C000581090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C000A81090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C000F81090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C001481090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C001981090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C001E81090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C002381090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C002881090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C002D81090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C003281090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C003781090019001B001300160014000200050009 (Rx)@@Ea 081107E10C010081090019001B001300160014000200050009 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Alan Kamrowski II wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > I'm converting a Neo 6M GPS data stream to the Motorla Oncore UT data > stream > my RFTG expects. When first turned on the 6M doesn't have a 1pps signal > yet, but does post NMEA messages which lack data are invalid. My question > is, what does the binary data stream from a Motorola Oncore UT look like? > It is binary so if anyone has one and can capture a power on in hex that > would be very helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Alan > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown
John, The displayed error message is: 'Acquisition failed - trigger poll operation timed out - check addresses' I have tried both, single and double precision. The sampling rate was either determined automatically by running the monitor or edited manually. The latter appeared to work even worse. Sometimes it times already out while establishing GPIB connection. Best case it runs up to tau = some 3 seconds. I've never observed the monitor function timing out. Adrian John Miles schrieb: Hmm. Both the monitor window and acquisition loop use 5-second GPIB timeouts, so they should theoretically behave the same. What is the exact error message it's giving you during acquisition? Are you using double precision, and/or a large sample size relative to the sampling interval? I don't recall the particulars but I did see some timeout issues depending on how much processing the Wavecrest box was being asked to do. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 3:08 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown John, I'm using a NI GBIP-USB-B. The monitor feature does not time out, just the acquisition itself. Adrian John Miles schrieb: What GPIB adapter are you using? Does the 'Monitor' feature also time out, or just the acquisition itself? -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:26 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown To be more precise, I have a working DTS-2077 and tried it a few times with TimeLab. TimeLab was always running fine for a few seconds but then it stopped and displayed a timeout error. So, what's wrong? Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Can someone post the @@Ea messages from a Motorola Oncore UT just powered up?
Hi Everyone, I'm converting a Neo 6M GPS data stream to the Motorla Oncore UT data stream my RFTG expects. When first turned on the 6M doesn't have a 1pps signal yet, but does post NMEA messages which lack data are invalid. My question is, what does the binary data stream from a Motorola Oncore UT look like? It is binary so if anyone has one and can capture a power on in hex that would be very helpful. Thanks, Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown
Hmm. Both the monitor window and acquisition loop use 5-second GPIB timeouts, so they should theoretically behave the same. What is the exact error message it's giving you during acquisition? Are you using double precision, and/or a large sample size relative to the sampling interval? I don't recall the particulars but I did see some timeout issues depending on how much processing the Wavecrest box was being asked to do. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Adrian > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 3:08 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest > DTS-2077 Teardown > > John, > > I'm using a NI GBIP-USB-B. > The monitor feature does not time out, just the acquisition itself. > > Adrian > > John Miles schrieb: > > What GPIB adapter are you using? Does the 'Monitor' feature also time out, > > or just the acquisition itself? > > > > -- john, KE5FX > > Miles Design LLC > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] > On > >> Behalf Of Adrian > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:26 AM > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest > >> DTS-2077 Teardown > >> > >> To be more precise, I have a working DTS-2077 and tried it a few times > >> with TimeLab. > >> TimeLab was always running fine for a few seconds but then it stopped > >> and displayed a timeout error. > >> So, what's wrong? > >> > >> Adrian > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- > nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- > nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange hp 5345A option C19
Hi Luca The earlier 5345As were fitted with the 10544A oscillator, I've seen units with both that and the later 10811, so it could indeed be the original oscillator. If your 10544A has the PCB edge connector and is installed in the usual place then without seeing what's actually been done I'm a bit lost as to why it would have been modified. If there was a problem perhaps with the original int/ext reference switching, or with the phose locking to an external source, that might be a reason, but for that it sounds like quite a drastic fix:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 22/08/2013 10:31:06 GMT Daylight Time, iw2...@gmail.com writes: Thank you Nigel for your comment. Now I understand the reason why it may be useful to have this additional external link. In the counter is fitted an oscillator model 10544A (instead of a more known 10811), but I think that it is the original one because the date code of the serial number is a bit old (year 1981). At that date, the 10544 was still in use. Observing carefully the way in which the internal connections to the Ref In and Out are made, I notice that wires, insulating material and sockets are different from the original HP's. So it seems actually to be a user made modification not related to option C19. Good bye Luca 2013/8/21 : > Hi Luca > > There are other items of HP equipment fitted with Ref Out and Ref In > terminals joined by an external link, with the intention that the link is > removed to connect an external standard to the Ref In terminal, but in a "normal" > 5345A the external reference is used to phase lock the internal oscillator > which means that the unit can't work from an external reference if the > internal 10MHz oscillator has been removed. > > However, I found some time ago that it is possible, just by fitting a > single link internally, to drive the counter via an external reference even if > the internal standard has been removed so I'm guessing that the internal > standard on this one might have been removed at some time and a previous > owner has fitted a non original internal standard with a similar provision to > bypass the normal arrangement. > > It should be fairly easy to check just by looking to see if the original > HP oscillator is still fitted or whether a different one has been added. > > Whether or not this relates to the Option C19 I don't know. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 21/08/2013 17:00:21 GMT Daylight Time, iw2...@gmail.com > writes: > > Dear all, > > I have bought an HP 5345A. It’s ok and I’m very glad. On the rear > panel it is wrote "OPTION C19" (a little bit strange!) and there are > two additional BNC installed on the little panel normally used to > place the HPIB connector when present. > > These 2 BNCs are named REF OUT and REF IN and there is a jumper cable > that connects the output to the input. > > It seems to be a modification made by some user (very strange: I can’t > understand why to place an extra auxiliary bypass for the 10 MHz > reference). > > Do you have an idea about this strange modification and about the > strange option C19? Could it be a custom option? Could the option C19 > and the 2 BNC for the reference be related? > > Thanks > > Bye > > Luca – IW2LJE – Milano – Italy > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown
John, I'm using a NI GBIP-USB-B. The monitor feature does not time out, just the acquisition itself. Adrian John Miles schrieb: What GPIB adapter are you using? Does the 'Monitor' feature also time out, or just the acquisition itself? -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:26 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wawecrest DTS-2077 with TimeLab: was: Wavecrest DTS-2077 Teardown To be more precise, I have a working DTS-2077 and tried it a few times with TimeLab. TimeLab was always running fine for a few seconds but then it stopped and displayed a timeout error. So, what's wrong? Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Cartoon :)
In message <20130822101451.41cac406...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>, Hal Mu rray writes: >> You mean like this: >> http://faculty.ucc.edu/business-greenbaum/images/NanosecZits.jpg > >Does anybody have a URL for the original/official cartoon? >Or even just the name of that cartoon strip? The strip is simply called "Zits" I'm surprised how anybody can live on this planet and not know it :-) http://zitscomics.com/ I don't belive their on-line archive stretches that far back... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Cartoon :)
p...@phk.freebsd.dk said: > You mean like this: > http://faculty.ucc.edu/business-greenbaum/images/NanosecZits.jpg Neat. Thanks. I remember that one from ages ago. Does anybody have a URL for the original/official cartoon? Or even just the name of that cartoon strip? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange hp 5345A option C19
Thank you Nigel for your comment. Now I understand the reason why it may be useful to have this additional external link. In the counter is fitted an oscillator model 10544A (instead of a more known 10811), but I think that it is the original one because the date code of the serial number is a bit old (year 1981). At that date, the 10544 was still in use. Observing carefully the way in which the internal connections to the Ref In and Out are made, I notice that wires, insulating material and sockets are different from the original HP's. So it seems actually to be a user made modification not related to option C19. Good bye Luca 2013/8/21 : > Hi Luca > > There are other items of HP equipment fitted with Ref Out and Ref In > terminals joined by an external link, with the intention that the link is > removed to connect an external standard to the Ref In terminal, but in a > "normal" > 5345A the external reference is used to phase lock the internal oscillator > which means that the unit can't work from an external reference if the > internal 10MHz oscillator has been removed. > > However, I found some time ago that it is possible, just by fitting a > single link internally, to drive the counter via an external reference even if > the internal standard has been removed so I'm guessing that the internal > standard on this one might have been removed at some time and a previous > owner has fitted a non original internal standard with a similar provision to > bypass the normal arrangement. > > It should be fairly easy to check just by looking to see if the original > HP oscillator is still fitted or whether a different one has been added. > > Whether or not this relates to the Option C19 I don't know. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 21/08/2013 17:00:21 GMT Daylight Time, iw2...@gmail.com > writes: > > Dear all, > > I have bought an HP 5345A. It’s ok and I’m very glad. On the rear > panel it is wrote "OPTION C19" (a little bit strange!) and there are > two additional BNC installed on the little panel normally used to > place the HPIB connector when present. > > These 2 BNCs are named REF OUT and REF IN and there is a jumper cable > that connects the output to the input. > > It seems to be a modification made by some user (very strange: I can’t > understand why to place an extra auxiliary bypass for the 10 MHz > reference). > > Do you have an idea about this strange modification and about the > strange option C19? Could it be a custom option? Could the option C19 > and the 2 BNC for the reference be related? > > Thanks > > Bye > > Luca – IW2LJE – Milano – Italy > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ***SPAM*** Cartoon :)
In message <20130822082311.30224406...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>, Hal Mu rray writes: > >Is anybody collecting time-nuts cartoons? > >http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/ You mean like this: http://faculty.ucc.edu/business-greenbaum/images/NanosecZits.jpg -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
From: Hal Murray I think you are missing the big picture. The OP wanted GPS time. NTP isn't setup to work with GPS time rather than UTC. [] = I think the OP wants "UTC time from a GPS" rather than "GPS time". But even if it /was/ GPS time, couldn't a set of simple "fudge" statements in the NTP configuration provide that? OK, you would need to change the fudge lines when the GPS to UTC offset changed... Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ***SPAM*** Cartoon :)
Is anybody collecting time-nuts cartoons? http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/ -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: > NTP will use the "best" reference clocks it finds. If that is GPS it will > use that. It can also use other NTP servers. Typically people use those > rather then getting their own GPS receiver. If the PC has a network > connection you can likely get time to within a few milliseconds using NTP > and a few of the pool time servers. I think you are missing the big picture. The OP wanted GPS time. NTP isn't setup to work with GPS time rather than UTC. None of the typical low cost GPS/NMEA receivers tell you GPS time rather than UTC. Some of them tell you the offset. If you really want GPS time, you have two choices. One is to get UTC via NTP and the offset via IERS, USNO, and NIST, and probably others. This has troubles when the leap-second offset changes. The other would be to listen to various GPS devices and see if you can get GPS time rather than UTC. It might work to hack various refclock drivers distributed with the NTP reference package. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
Hello You can try Nmeatime: "www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/" Regards === Some advantages of the standard NTP software over NMEATime are listed here: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html#why The OP's main problem is that his GPS receiver does not include PPS, but a new, low-cost receiver easily solves that problem. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
Hello You can try Nmeatime: "www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/" Regards On 21/08/13 23:48 , Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com sent: It's simple, just install and run "NTP" On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Rex Moncur wrote: > I am trying to lock a Windows XP computer to GPS time taking advantage of > both the NEMA sentence and the 1PPS with the hope of getting to within a > few > ms. > > I am using a Garmin GPS 18PC and the NMEATime program. When I tick the box > to implement the 1PPS feature on NMEATime the program locks up each time it > attempts to correct the PC time. Perhaps there is something I need to do > to > configure the GPS 18PC to fix this. > > I would be grateful for advice as to whether and how one can use NMEATime > for this purpose with a Garmin GPS 18 PC or advice on other programs to > achieve accurate locking of the PC. > > Rex VK7MO > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- > To unsubscribe, go to > > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
Hit "send" a bit to soon. NTP will use the "best" reference clocks it finds. If that is GPS it will use that. It can also use other NTP servers. Typically people use those rather then getting their own GPS receiver. If the PC has a network connection you can likely get time to within a few milliseconds using NTP and a few of the pool time servers. I would defiantly recommend getting NTP to work using the pool servers first. Then add GPS. Be warned that the NMEA spec says that messages apply to the current second. This means the NMEA data from the serial port can be up to one second "off". It is used only to tell you the number of the second, not for accurate timing.For that NTP uses the PPS reference clock. On some GPS receivers (not your Garmin unit) the PPS is good for a few tens of nanoseconds. I looked up NMEATime. It uses "SNTP" protocol. It will never be very accurate. Think about a mechanical clock that you want to set. First to set it then you wait a day or so and see if it gains or looses time. Then you adust the rate, faster or slower. Eventually the clock keeps good time after a few more cycles of adjust and wait and check. NTP works like this. SNTP simply sets the clock once then quits and never even looks at the rate. This is the place to get NTP http://www.ntp.org However many Windows users like to get third party versions of NTP. These are packages with installers and are good for people who can't build and install the source distribution. Google should find one. About your Garmin GPS. You can buy a real "timing receiver" for under $20 on eBay. If you need nanoseconds that is the way to go. A timing reciever will have at least two features (1) position hold, where the receiver is told it is NOT moving and (2) self survey, where the reciever can take about 30 minutes or longer to deterim it's position to typically less than a meter. Position uncertainty creates time uncertainty (by the speed of light) so not knowing you location by a meter means you don't know the time within about 3 nanoseconds. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > It's simple, just install and run "NTP" > http://www.ntp.org/downloads.html > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Rex Moncur wrote: > >> I am trying to lock a Windows XP computer to GPS time taking advantage of >> both the NEMA sentence and the 1PPS with the hope of getting to within a >> few >> ms. >> >> I am using a Garmin GPS 18PC and the NMEATime program. When I tick the >> box >> to implement the 1PPS feature on NMEATime the program locks up each time >> it >> attempts to correct the PC time. Perhaps there is something I need to do >> to >> configure the GPS 18PC to fix this. >> >> I would be grateful for advice as to whether and how one can use NMEATime >> for this purpose with a Garmin GPS 18 PC or advice on other programs to >> achieve accurate locking of the PC. >> >> Rex VK7MO >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help in Locking a Windows Computer to GPS Time
Hello. You can try Regards. On 21/08/13 23:48 , Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com sent: It's simple, just install and run "NTP" On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Rex Moncur wrote: > I am trying to lock a Windows XP computer to GPS time taking advantage of > both the NEMA sentence and the 1PPS with the hope of getting to within a > few > ms. > > I am using a Garmin GPS 18PC and the NMEATime program. When I tick the box > to implement the 1PPS feature on NMEATime the program locks up each time it > attempts to correct the PC time. Perhaps there is something I need to do > to > configure the GPS 18PC to fix this. > > I would be grateful for advice as to whether and how one can use NMEATime > for this purpose with a Garmin GPS 18 PC or advice on other programs to > achieve accurate locking of the PC. > > Rex VK7MO > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- > To unsubscribe, go to > > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PTPv2 grandmaster with a Z3805A?
On 08/20/2013 01:51 PM, David Gravereaux wrote: > Also, and still back to my question, NTPd's control of the radio and PPS > signal wouldn't be using the same PPS kernel service would it? Answering my own question, the clock at /dev/ptp0 (on the NIC) is not the same as the realtime and needs to be disciplined with the phy2sys utility or in some other manner. -- David Gravereaux signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
