Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 misbehaving
Charles, The OCXO has always been pretty warm to the touch. Except now, it is barely warm. I tried the antenna first with a card sized Symmetricon GPSDO and it locked up OK. I have a small uBlox GPS that gives the signal levels of the satellites it sees. I need to hook that up and check. The Antenna is a Leica AT503 up 40 feet on a Rohn 25G tower. It is on top and seems to have a pretty good view of the sky. It is fed 12 volts from a wall wart power supply through a Pasternack bias Tee. I couldn't find any info on the AT503 but I took it apart and the preamp has a 7808 voltage regulator in it, so I think 12 volts should work alright. The cable is LMR400 from an actual HP cable intended to work with GPS. I have a lot of checking to do before I can narrow things down. On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > John wrote: > > I am now thinking it may be an OCXO outer oven failure. It normally >> runs quite warm. But now, it seems it may be body temperature or maybe a >> little less. The 10811 is different to a stock one but, is the outer oven >> voltage the same? I would think the inner oven should keep it warm enough >> to achieve lock and hold it. The outer oven is mostly to make the inner >> oven's job easier. >> > > Typically, the outer oven of a DO 10811 is on a thermostat. It receives > power only when the OCXO is warming up from cold, and is switched off when > the inner oven gets close to its operating temperature. So, the outside of > the OCXO package is warm during warmup from cold, then less warm during > normal operation. If the outer oven does not heat, for any reason, the > inner oven will eventually (~30 min.) get the crystal to operating > temperature and it will work normally after that. > > The symptoms you have described all suggest very strongly that something > is wrong with the antenna feed to the 3801: > > -- bad antenna location (needs to be outdoors with a clear view of at > least the southern half of the sky, assuming you are in the Northern > hemisphere) > > -- bad antenna > > -- no DC power reaching antenna > > -- bad antenna cable > > -- bad antenna cable connector(s) > > It's possible something is wrong with the 3801, but if it worked properly > when it was taken out of service, it is *much* more likely that the problem > is one of the items listed above. > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent 53220A and TimeLab
Hi, Timothy -- > I've had an Agilent 53220A for some time, and recently discovered the > wonderful TimeLab software, but I've hit a bit of a snag trying to run some > ADEV measurements on a Rb clock. The problem is that the graph doesn't > line up with the amount of data TimeLab says is collected. I ran an > acquisition for 100 seconds, but according to the chart it only shows data > collected for 20 seconds See page 31-32 of the manual (http://www.miles.io/TimePod_5330A_user_manual.pdf). I think you'll find it anticipates that very same question. :) > On a side note, I was disappointed to find out that I missed the boat on > the semi-affordable TimePod. Is there anything remotely in the price rang > (sub 5K) that can do stability AND phase noise measurements? It seems like > the Wavecrest DST "might" be able to, but from what I read in the time-nuts > archive I wasn't able to get a clear picture there's an app note > floating around about making phase noise measurements with it, but > nothing > solid. The Microsemi 3120A's price has come down a bit over time, so I'd suggest checking with them to see what the current pricing is like. (Obligatory disclaimer: I have no current financial/professional involvement with the 3120A.) I suspect it's still well north of $5K, depending on options, but I know they've stepped back from the initial prices they were quoting. I'd encourage you to build something, though, given that you're not doing this stuff for your day job. There's a reasonable amount of literature out there on both quadrature PLLs for PN measurement and the related tight-PLL topology that's well-suited to stability measurement. They can both return very high-quality results for very little money, if you're willing to put in the necessary "sweat equity." This approach is much more educational than simply throwing money at hardware, and (speaking from experience) more fun as well. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 misbehaving
John wrote: I am now thinking it may be an OCXO outer oven failure. It normally runs quite warm. But now, it seems it may be body temperature or maybe a little less. The 10811 is different to a stock one but, is the outer oven voltage the same? I would think the inner oven should keep it warm enough to achieve lock and hold it. The outer oven is mostly to make the inner oven's job easier. Typically, the outer oven of a DO 10811 is on a thermostat. It receives power only when the OCXO is warming up from cold, and is switched off when the inner oven gets close to its operating temperature. So, the outside of the OCXO package is warm during warmup from cold, then less warm during normal operation. If the outer oven does not heat, for any reason, the inner oven will eventually (~30 min.) get the crystal to operating temperature and it will work normally after that. The symptoms you have described all suggest very strongly that something is wrong with the antenna feed to the 3801: -- bad antenna location (needs to be outdoors with a clear view of at least the southern half of the sky, assuming you are in the Northern hemisphere) -- bad antenna -- no DC power reaching antenna -- bad antenna cable -- bad antenna cable connector(s) It's possible something is wrong with the 3801, but if it worked properly when it was taken out of service, it is *much* more likely that the problem is one of the items listed above. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). Jeremy http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. Don iovane--- via time-nuts I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which worked as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary tube. Antonio I8IOV Da: Bob Camp Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals Hi Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it in a socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with fat pins sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass package crystal and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal shield you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. Bob On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: Hi, I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. Here are some pictures: http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, but I'm not sure if that type might work here. Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in mind? Thanks much, Dan W. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Hi Anything that causes “delta C” between the leads is probably a bad idea. Most 3D printing materials are relatively unstable as capacitor dielectrics. Bob > On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Daniel Watson wrote: > > Hi, > > I have added a picture of the bottom of the 5 MHz crystal. The other one > has a similar pin arrangement, two pairs twisted and soldered together, > except they aren't cut as short. The seller indicated they were > manufactured in Russia for military use. > > If a suitable socket cannot be found, I thought about 3D printing little > stands for them to sit on when soldered to a board. > > Dan > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >> Interesting! Date code from the 90's? Russian, right? >> >> They certainly look like common 7 pin miniature tube pattern. >> >> But unlike a real 7 pin tube that actually has stiff Cunife or Fernico >> pins, it looks like you have just tinned wires out the bottom of yours, and >> your pics don't show the bottom of the tube, but it looks like outside the >> glass the wires from two different pin-holes are wrapped together? >> >> For testing purposes I don't see any problem using a 7-pin miniature tube >> socket if you have it on hand and carefully inserting the pairs of twisted >> wires into the socket holes. >> >> But for more permanent use seems to make more sense to solder the pins to a >> PCB if they are tinned already. >> >> Tim N3QE >> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> >> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? >> I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G >> mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Hi I think you will find that the Russian versions were used without ovens for a long time. In the US, the only use for the glass packages past the mid 1960’s was in ovens. Bob > On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:43 PM, iovane--- via time-nuts > wrote: > > I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which > worked > as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in > my > case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still > is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, > a > beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of > tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in > which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary > tube. > > Antonio I8IOV > >> Da: Bob Camp >> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >> >> Hi >> >> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting >> it > in a >> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with > fat pins >> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >> >> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass > package crystal >> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a >> metal > shield >> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 misbehaving
Hi The only real function of the outer oven on the Z3801 is to improve the pereormcane when it fires up cold at -40C. As long as you are at a rational temperature, it really does nothing useful stability wise. Of course if it pitches an alarm “outer oven dead” that can be a bit of an issue. Bob > On Feb 2, 2016, at 8:17 AM, John Green wrote: > > Pete, I am now thinking it may be an OCXO outer oven failure. It normally > runs quite warm. But now, it seems it may be body temperature or maybe a > little less. The 10811 is different to a stock one but, is the outer oven > voltage the same? I would think the inner oven should keep it warm enough > to achieve lock and hold it. The outer oven is mostly to make the inner > oven's job easier. > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Pete Lancashire > wrote: > >> I have a long shot. >> >> If you really do not think it is not anything to do with not getting a >> signal into the 3801, antenna, cable, connectors etc. I may have a >> replacement GPS module but will have to be confirmed by the group. >> >> The module is a 8 Channel Motorola Oncore >> >> http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5249 >> >> I'll send you one if you want to try it out. Only 'cost' I ask is it work >> let me know. >> >> -pete >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:52 AM, John Green wrote: >> >>> After a couple of days of GPS lock, it went into holdover. I briefly >>> powered it down and it attained lock again in about 15 minutes. But, a >>> while later, it was back in holdover. I finally coaxed that Sager laptop >>> into working and after connecting to it with genuine RS232, I still can't >>> communicate with it. I get zip with Satstat. And, it isn't locking again >>> either. So, while it will achieve GPS lock, it doesn't seem to want to >> stay >>> locked. And, there is that troubling lack of communication. I am >>> considering trying a different GPS receiver module. I understand that >>> probably isn't smart unless I try one similar to the one in it. I >>> understand that the internal processor talks to the GPS module and >> anything >>> with a different command set will cause it to think the GPS has gone bad. >>> At this point, it looks like my options are limited to buying a new, used >>> one off eBay for $500, or going to the Thunderbolt, which I don't trust. >> I >>> have an old desktop PC I am going to try just in case the laptop RS232 >>> voltages weren't up to snuff. And, I am going to try a different cable, >>> just in case. It probably wouldn't hurt to exercise the RS232 jumpers >>> either. Anything else I should try? >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS jumps of -13.7 us?
David, On 02/02/2016 04:23 PM, David J Taylor wrote: Appears to have caused a disruption to the UK digital radio distribution network: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35463347 Thanks for that one. It is typical for installations like that to be affected. It's not the only broadcast network affected, I know of several. I doubt much more will be said beyond the press release in any time soon. Hopefully there will be a more detailed report, and if so, I would not expect it to surface until maybe a few months on the earliest, but 6-12 months is maybe a little more realistic. There is ways to make receivers more robust to this and a number of similar data-errors. It will be interesting to see what GPS vendors do to make their receivers more robust. It would be useful if there where a standard set of improvements, as this would allow "checkboxing" that help operators to get the right gear. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Varactor frequency dividers question
Hi, I'm looking for a copy of the following document. "Parametric frequency divider basics. (technical note )" >From the Microwave Journal Sept 1 1989. Can anyone help? Thanks, Corby Abstract below. >>>Since the introduction of half octave bandwidth microwave frequency dividers and full octave models, parametric frequency dividers have found applications in many microwave systems. General Description The parametric frequency divider is constructed using two varactor diodes in a resonant circuit. These diodes are biased slightly forward under normal operation. The input signal capacitively is coupled into the matching network for the two diodes, where it drives both of the diodes in phase. Due to the modulation of the varactor's capacitance at the input frequency f, a subharmonic resonance is set up in the diode pair at half of the input frequency, f/2. [1] This signal appears across both of the varactor diodes, but at 180[degrees] out of phase with each other. It is possibly, by using a balun connected to both diodes, to cancel the input signal f. However, by observing the signal on one of the diodes in the time domain, it can be seen that balancing is unnecessary. This signal appears as a negative impulse train with a period of f/2, with a positive maximum at the varactor's turn-on threshold voltage of 0.7 V. An electrical schematic diagram of a typical divider is shown in Figure 1. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. Don iovane--- via time-nuts > I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which > worked > as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my > case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still > is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a > beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of > tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in > which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary > tube. > > Antonio I8IOV > >>Da: Bob Camp >>Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >>Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >> >>Hi >> >>Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it > in a >>socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with > fat pins >>sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >> >>Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass > package crystal >>and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal > shield >>you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >> >>Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which worked as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary tube. Antonio I8IOV >Da: Bob Camp >Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals > >Hi > >Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it in a >socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with fat pins >sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. > >Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass package crystal >and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal shield >you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. > >Bob > > >> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >> Here are some pictures: >> >> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >> >> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >> >> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >> mind? >> >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Dan W. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Hi, I have added a picture of the bottom of the 5 MHz crystal. The other one has a similar pin arrangement, two pairs twisted and soldered together, except they aren't cut as short. The seller indicated they were manufactured in Russia for military use. If a suitable socket cannot be found, I thought about 3D printing little stands for them to sit on when soldered to a board. Dan On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Interesting! Date code from the 90's? Russian, right? > > They certainly look like common 7 pin miniature tube pattern. > > But unlike a real 7 pin tube that actually has stiff Cunife or Fernico > pins, it looks like you have just tinned wires out the bottom of yours, and > your pics don't show the bottom of the tube, but it looks like outside the > glass the wires from two different pin-holes are wrapped together? > > For testing purposes I don't see any problem using a 7-pin miniature tube > socket if you have it on hand and carefully inserting the pairs of twisted > wires into the socket holes. > > But for more permanent use seems to make more sense to solder the pins to a > PCB if they are tinned already. > > Tim N3QE > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. > > Here are some pictures: > > > > > http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html > > > > Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? > I > > read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G > mount, > > but I'm not sure if that type might work here. > > > > Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any > > specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in > > mind? > > > > > > Thanks much, > > > > Dan W. > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for paper "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves"
Hello Attila, I do have the book. Sorry, but I have no time to scan the pages. Please call me in the QRL Viele Grüße Bernd DK1AG AXTAL GmbH & Co. KG -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Attila Kinali Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2016 14:33 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: [time-nuts] Looking for paper "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves" Moin, I'm looking for a paper, but cannot find it in a local library or digital form. Before I start ordering old conference proceedings, I wanted to ask whether anyone here has the paper and would be so kind to send me a (digital) copy. The paper I am looking for is: T. R. Meeker, "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves" by E. A. Gerber and A. Ballato, in Precision Frequency Control, Vol. 1, pp. 48-118, Academic Press, 1985. Thanks in advance Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for paper "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves"
Remoin, On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 14:33:01 +0100 Attila Kinali wrote: > I'm looking for a paper, but cannot find it in a local library or > digital form. Before I start ordering old conference proceedings, > I wanted to ask whether anyone here has the paper and would be > so kind to send me a (digital) copy. A very kind Italian man from France send me copy. Thanks everyone who offered to help! Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS jumps of -13.7 us?
Appears to have caused a disruption to the UK digital radio distribution network: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35463347 Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 misbehaving
Pete, I am now thinking it may be an OCXO outer oven failure. It normally runs quite warm. But now, it seems it may be body temperature or maybe a little less. The 10811 is different to a stock one but, is the outer oven voltage the same? I would think the inner oven should keep it warm enough to achieve lock and hold it. The outer oven is mostly to make the inner oven's job easier. On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote: > I have a long shot. > > If you really do not think it is not anything to do with not getting a > signal into the 3801, antenna, cable, connectors etc. I may have a > replacement GPS module but will have to be confirmed by the group. > > The module is a 8 Channel Motorola Oncore > > http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5249 > > I'll send you one if you want to try it out. Only 'cost' I ask is it work > let me know. > > -pete > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:52 AM, John Green wrote: > > > After a couple of days of GPS lock, it went into holdover. I briefly > > powered it down and it attained lock again in about 15 minutes. But, a > > while later, it was back in holdover. I finally coaxed that Sager laptop > > into working and after connecting to it with genuine RS232, I still can't > > communicate with it. I get zip with Satstat. And, it isn't locking again > > either. So, while it will achieve GPS lock, it doesn't seem to want to > stay > > locked. And, there is that troubling lack of communication. I am > > considering trying a different GPS receiver module. I understand that > > probably isn't smart unless I try one similar to the one in it. I > > understand that the internal processor talks to the GPS module and > anything > > with a different command set will cause it to think the GPS has gone bad. > > At this point, it looks like my options are limited to buying a new, used > > one off eBay for $500, or going to the Thunderbolt, which I don't trust. > I > > have an old desktop PC I am going to try just in case the laptop RS232 > > voltages weren't up to snuff. And, I am going to try a different cable, > > just in case. It probably wouldn't hurt to exercise the RS232 jumpers > > either. Anything else I should try? > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Hi Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it in a socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with fat pins sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass package crystal and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal shield you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. Bob > On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: > > Hi, > > I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. > Here are some pictures: > > http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html > > Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I > read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, > but I'm not sure if that type might work here. > > Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any > specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in > mind? > > > Thanks much, > > Dan W. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Looking for paper "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves"
Moin, I'm looking for a paper, but cannot find it in a local library or digital form. Before I start ordering old conference proceedings, I wanted to ask whether anyone here has the paper and would be so kind to send me a (digital) copy. The paper I am looking for is: T. R. Meeker, "Theory and Properties of Piezoelectric Resonators and Waves" by E. A. Gerber and A. Ballato, in Precision Frequency Control, Vol. 1, pp. 48-118, Academic Press, 1985. Thanks in advance Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Interesting! Date code from the 90's? Russian, right? They certainly look like common 7 pin miniature tube pattern. But unlike a real 7 pin tube that actually has stiff Cunife or Fernico pins, it looks like you have just tinned wires out the bottom of yours, and your pics don't show the bottom of the tube, but it looks like outside the glass the wires from two different pin-holes are wrapped together? For testing purposes I don't see any problem using a 7-pin miniature tube socket if you have it on hand and carefully inserting the pairs of twisted wires into the socket holes. But for more permanent use seems to make more sense to solder the pins to a PCB if they are tinned already. Tim N3QE On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: > Hi, > > I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. > Here are some pictures: > > http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html > > Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I > read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, > but I'm not sure if that type might work here. > > Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any > specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in > mind? > > > Thanks much, > > Dan W. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
Hi, I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. Here are some pictures: http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, but I'm not sure if that type might work here. Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in mind? Thanks much, Dan W. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
