Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532Aand T-bolt)

[jimlux]

On 4/21/16 6:03 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Paul,

If possible can you make an audio recording of a woodpecker attack? You know 
it's a form of 1pPS.
I'd like to add that data set to my list of ADEV plots.



I am sure, like almost all oscillators, it will have 1/f flicker noise.

Heatbeats do, walking stride rates do, etc.



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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Jeremy Nichols]

The silicone tape also has the advantage (if buying from Uline) that you 
can get two (2) rolls; for the 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape the 
minimum is 10 rolls.


Jeremy

On 4/21/2016 5:57 PM, William H. Fite wrote:

Mark is right on target re the connectors; get the best you can afford.
Amphenol or equivalent.

Self-fusing silicone tape is a lot faster and easier than the 3M black
tape. Just stretch and wrap, it conforms beautifully, is highly resistant
to UV, and won't stiffen and crack in the cold. Best of all, if you need to
remove it, you just split it with a knife and it comes off cleanly.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-11849/High-Temperature-Tapes/Silicone-Self-Fusing-Tape-1-x-12-yds-Red?pricode=WY637=pla=S-11849=CjwKEAjw9OG4BRDJzY3jrMng4iQSJABddor1kp3L3ESovor8DEeu0fEjhLXVWv0maB4ehIVQ1EEASBoC6kTw_wcB=aw.ds



On Thursday, April 21, 2016, Mark Spencer  wrote:


That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio
activities.   Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is
helpful during quick weekend projects.

Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the
"splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.

These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit
more forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other
types.   (Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)

Your experience and results may differ from mine.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH > wrote:

DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends

these

two products:

http://www.dxengineering.com/


3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
Scotch Super 33+ tape

The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.

There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so

when

you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no

residue.

Great system!

Dave



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On

Behalf

Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
(Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

All,

Really awesome answers, thanks!

For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother
with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual
thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was
planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's
also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no
direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note

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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[William H. Fite]

Mark is right on target re the connectors; get the best you can afford.
Amphenol or equivalent.

Self-fusing silicone tape is a lot faster and easier than the 3M black
tape. Just stretch and wrap, it conforms beautifully, is highly resistant
to UV, and won't stiffen and crack in the cold. Best of all, if you need to
remove it, you just split it with a knife and it comes off cleanly.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-11849/High-Temperature-Tapes/Silicone-Self-Fusing-Tape-1-x-12-yds-Red?pricode=WY637=pla=S-11849=CjwKEAjw9OG4BRDJzY3jrMng4iQSJABddor1kp3L3ESovor8DEeu0fEjhLXVWv0maB4ehIVQ1EEASBoC6kTw_wcB=aw.ds



On Thursday, April 21, 2016, Mark Spencer  wrote:

> That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio
> activities.   Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is
> helpful during quick weekend projects.
>
> Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the
> "splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.
>
> These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit
> more forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other
> types.   (Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)
>
> Your experience and results may differ from mine.
>
> 73
> Mark S
> VE7AFZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH  > wrote:
> >
> > DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends
> these
> > two products:
> >
> > http://www.dxengineering.com/
> >
> >
> > 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
> > Scotch Super 33+ tape
> >
> > The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
> > connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
> > joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.
> >
> > There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so
> when
> > you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no
> residue.
> > Great system!
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On
> Behalf
> >> Of Ryan Stasel
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
> >> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Really awesome answers, thanks!
> >>
> >> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother
> >> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual
> >> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was
> >> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink
> >> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> >> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's
> >> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no
> >> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532Aand T-bolt)

[Tom Van Baak]

Paul,

If possible can you make an audio recording of a woodpecker attack? You know 
it's a form of 1pPS.
I'd like to add that data set to my list of ADEV plots.

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "paul swed" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532Aand 
T-bolt)


All accurate accept the aging rate of any coax/heliax. Useful life =Years
of expected life/woodpecker attacks. I would never have believed it but I
am actually having trouble with those birds. :-) Just never know.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

All accurate accept the aging rate of any coax/heliax. Useful life =Years
of expected life/woodpecker attacks. I would never have believed it but I
am actually having trouble with those birds. :-) Just never know.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Tom Holmes  wrote:

> Ryan...
>
> I've done a lot of tower work over the years, and have taken down quite a
> few antennas, which of course meant removing whatever seal was used and
> separating the connector halves. I have never found an N connector seized.
> Usually a gentle twist using a pair of pliers will break the sleeve loose.
> And I should point out that you don’t need to torque the sleeve any more
> than gently when you mate the halves. Too much torque will distort the
> internals and possibly damage things, or at least make the inherent SWR
> bump a bit worse.
>
> Frankly, I would be concerned about the anti-seize compound migrating into
> the inner workings of the connector and adding a bit of loss, which is
> another reason not to use it. I'm not a big fan of the greases that are
> suggested for use inside of connectors as a way to keep moisture out, again
> because of their affect on the losses at 1575 MHz.
>
> My observations with various types of coax, such as Belden brand RG-8 and
> RG-213, as well as Andrew Heliax is that even after 30 years outside in
> Ohio weather, the outer jacket holds up quite well. Unsupported sections of
> the RG types of coax that can flop around in the wind sometimes show cracks
> and splits from years of flexing, however. The occasional punch through
> from lightning has been found as well near the tops of 100' towers.
>
> Don’t get too uptight about the cabling; just do your best to make it
> neat, reasonably well sealed (you are putting it in a pipe outside, that's
> very good), and keep the bend radii gentle and you'll be fine.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Tom Holmes, N8ZM
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
> Stasel
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 1:08 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A
> and T-bolt)
>
> All,
>
> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>
> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something
> like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The
> actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the
> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side
> of my chimney, that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
> should be minimal. But good note on that regard.
>
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also
> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my
> seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly
> easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
> (har har) sells (Southwire (
> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Ryan Stasel
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
> held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
> years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >>
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise
> yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >>
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
> anyone
> >> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
> seizing
> >> it up.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Ryan Stasel
> >> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> >> University of Oregon
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as 

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Mark Spencer]

That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio activities.   
Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is helpful during quick 
weekend projects.

Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the 
"splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.  

These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit more 
forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other types.   
(Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)

Your experience and results may differ from mine.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH  wrote:
> 
> DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends these
> two products:
> 
> http://www.dxengineering.com/
> 
> 
> 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
> Scotch Super 33+ tape
> 
> The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
> connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
> joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.
> 
> There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so when
> you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no residue.
> Great system!
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Ryan Stasel
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna 
>> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
>> 
>> All, 
>> 
>> Really awesome answers, thanks! 
>> 
>> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother 
>> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual 
>> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was 
>> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
>> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast 
>> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's 
>> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no 
>> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note
> 
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Mark Sims]

>Would there be enough horsepower for a Pi 3 to run Lady Heather and act as a 
>stratum 1 NTP server?
I suspect so,  the PI3 has quad core 64-bit capable 1.2GHz processor.  The PI3 
seems to be about 50% faster than the PI2.   It also runs about code about as 
fast as a 2 GHz Pentium 4.   But the ethernet interface is via a USB bridge (or 
maybe some other serial interface on the PI3).  Not the best way to do 
things...  Also,  the current PI Linux distros are all 32-bit.
I have the sound file issue worked out (system() a background shell that 
invokes aplay).  My old code left off the & on the shell command and it was not 
returning until the sound finished... d'oh
I also have the PI color issue resolved...
Now to finish up the serial port init code...  Oh,  and also the ethernet 
socket code...
I'm picking up one of those 7" PI LCD screens tomorrow...  should make for a 
nice package.  But they cost twice what the PI does...

  
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Tom Holmes]

Ryan...

I've done a lot of tower work over the years, and have taken down quite a few 
antennas, which of course meant removing whatever seal was used and separating 
the connector halves. I have never found an N connector seized. Usually a 
gentle twist using a pair of pliers will break the sleeve loose. And I should 
point out that you don’t need to torque the sleeve any more than gently when 
you mate the halves. Too much torque will distort the internals and possibly 
damage things, or at least make the inherent SWR bump a bit worse. 

Frankly, I would be concerned about the anti-seize compound migrating into the 
inner workings of the connector and adding a bit of loss, which is another 
reason not to use it. I'm not a big fan of the greases that are suggested for 
use inside of connectors as a way to keep moisture out, again because of their 
affect on the losses at 1575 MHz.

My observations with various types of coax, such as Belden brand RG-8 and 
RG-213, as well as Andrew Heliax is that even after 30 years outside in Ohio 
weather, the outer jacket holds up quite well. Unsupported sections of the RG 
types of coax that can flop around in the wind sometimes show cracks and splits 
from years of flexing, however. The occasional punch through from lightning has 
been found as well near the tops of 100' towers.

Don’t get too uptight about the cabling; just do your best to make it neat, 
reasonably well sealed (you are putting it in a pipe outside, that's very 
good), and keep the bend radii gentle and you'll be fine.

Have fun!

Tom Holmes, N8ZM


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 1:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and 
T-bolt)

All, 

Really awesome answers, thanks! 

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something like 
anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The actual 
connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast anyway, so direct 
weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that 
gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good 
note on that regard. 

Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also the 
fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my seller 
wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly easier to 
handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot (har har) 
sells (Southwire 
(http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
 I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it. 

Thanks again! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> Bob/Paul,
>> 
>> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
>> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
>> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
>> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
>> they work).
>> 
>> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
>> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
>> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
>> it up.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Ryan Stasel
>> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
>> University of Oregon
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
>> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
>> from and what the specs are.
>>> 
>>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
>> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db.
>> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
 
 All,
 
 I’m going to be installing a 

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Storer, Darren]

Would there be enough horsepower for a Pi 3 to run Lady Heather and act as
a stratum 1 NTP server?

D.


On 21 April 2016 at 06:13, Mark Sims  wrote:

> Well,  Lady Heather finally got off her ample ass and dug into the tao of
> X11 and all things Linuxy.   The program is currently working well enough
> to display log files, etc.  Serial port initialization for non-blocking
> asynchronous I/O needs to be completed.   I have it working on a couple of
> Ubuntu Mate boxes  (X86 and Mac Mini power pc G4) and a Raspberry Pi 3.  I
> need to tweak the Pi color palette initialization code... the bastards
> defaulted it to a 16 bit RGB 565 frame buffer...
> One thing that will probably not be supported is sound file support...
> playing .WAV files asynchronously does not seem to come naturally to
> Linux.  Does anybody know of a simple / lazy bastard way to play a sound
> file in the background from a C/C++ program...  I'd really like my GPS
> disciplined singing clock to work.
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[DaveH]

DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends these
two products:

http://www.dxengineering.com/


3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
Scotch Super 33+ tape

The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.

There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so when
you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no residue.
Great system!

Dave
 

> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
> Of Ryan Stasel
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna 
> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> 
> All, 
> 
> Really awesome answers, thanks! 
> 
> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother 
> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual 
> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was 
> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast 
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's 
> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no 
> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note 
> on that regard. 
> 
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and 
> amp, and also the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. 
> I'm going to see what my seller wants for LMR400, but 
> otherwise, I'll just use RG6. It's certainly easier to 
> handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home 
> despot (har har) sells (Southwire 
> (http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?c
> ontentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)). I swear I have a box of Belden 
> somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. 
> 
> Thanks again! 
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> > 
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the 
> connections held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 
> or more years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of 
> shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate 
> over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>  wrote:
> > 
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >> 
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs 
> are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, 
> but otherwise yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp 
> connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably 
> for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >> 
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm 
> curious if anyone
> >> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from 
> otherwise seizing
> >> it up.
> >> 
> >> Thanks!
> >> 
> >> Ryan Stasel
> >> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> >> University of Oregon
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi
> >>> 
> >>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it's meeting 
> the published
> >> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* 
> where it came
> >> from and what the specs are.
> >>> 
> >>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO's, a 
> powered splitter
> >> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, 
> you loose 3 db.
> >> Get at least a 4 way splitter ..
> >>> 
> >>> Bob
> >>> 
>  On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>  wrote:
>  
>  All,
>  
>  I'm going to be installing a "permanent" antenna at 
> home, and will need
> >> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the 
> mast I'll be
> >> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I've seen 
> some indication
> >> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won't 
> have any issues
> >> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I'd ask the 
> "experts" whether
> >> I'd be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 
> (I've got a local
> >> source that doesn't know what LMR400 is, or what it's worth)?
>  
>  Obviously I'd prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I'd be 
> better off
> >> with LMR400, I'd rather run that now than go back into the 
> crawlspace
> >> again. =)
>  
>  Also, if it helps, I'll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 
> 58516A at/near
> >> the 

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[David Fav]

  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
  For long distance you need the right cable. Since the Antenna is
likely designed for 50 ohms use 50 ohm cable

If it's a fixed installation maybe RG8 with pl259 to N adaptor would
be a good bet ?

This garden hose cable might be cheaper than  RG6 quad.
 http://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Bulletins/apn032.pdf [1]
 --
 This message is virus free, protected by Primus - Canada's
 largest alternative telecommunications provider.
 http://www.primus.ca 
 On Thu 21/04/16  6:48 AM , Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org sent:
 Hi 
 Most of the data sheets on RG-6 Quad show it around 9 db per 100’.
Like any of the  
 “old” (RG) specs, there really is no control on who does what
with a given type of 
 cable. The direct burial versions seem to be a little more
consistent.  
 Bob 
 > On Apr 20, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Pete Stephenson  wrote: 
 >  
 > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote: 
 >> All, 
 >>  
 >> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home,
and will need a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the
mast I’ll be mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve
seen some indication that both the antenna and the Trimble
Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 75ohm cable,
but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off
with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that
doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
 >>  
 >> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be
better off with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into
the crawlspace again. =) 
 >  
 > I'm hardly an expert, but according to the Times Microwave
calculator 
 > at , [4] RG6 (of unspecified 
 > type, presumably double not quad-shielded) at 1542MHz will have a
loss 
 > of 12dB over a 100ft length. LMR400 will have a loss of 5.2dB over

 > that same length. 
 >  
 > The datasheet for your specific cable should show the loss
figures. 
 >  
 > The 58532A has an amplifier with a gain of >30dB, so it should
work 
 > well even at moderate cable lengths. 
 >  
 > Keep in mind that the Thunderbolt Starter kit came with a Trimble 
 > Bullet antenna (similar gain to the 58532A) and 75 feet of RG6;
it'll 
 > almost certainly work fine with 100ft of cable: the manual for the

 > Thunderbolt recommends RG-59 cable (presumably because it's cheap
and 
 > common) and states "The maximum practical cable run is just over
100 
 > feet." A graph in the manual shows RG-59 losing 15dB over 100ft, 
 >  
 > To be safe, you could always test it by connecting the 100ft of
cable 
 > to the antenna and putting it outside in a more convenient
location 
 > that has a similar view as your mast and seeing how the
Thunderbolt 
 > likes it. 
 >  
 > Also, keep in mind that the 58516A splitter can have between +3
and -3 
 > dB of gain depending on your luck as to how it was made. The
manual 
 > says that for relatively lossy RG-213 cable and the worst case 
 > performance of the 58516A, you should be fine with up to 174 feet
of 
 > cable with no line amplifier. 
 >  
 >> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A
at/near the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well
(especially one of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never
finished) ages ago). Which brings the question, will the T-bolt
provide the oomph needed to power that splitter and the antenna over
that length of cable? 
 >  
 > Short answer: Yes. 
 >  
 > Longer answer: The Thunderbolt manual says it can supply 5V at up
to 
 > 45mA. The 58532A antenna draws a max of 27mA (with 20mA being 
 > typical). The 58516A splitter manual draws it uses 10mA. Worst
case 
 > usage is 37mA, which is within the limits for the Thunderbolt. 
 >  
 > Considering both conductors, 100ft of LMR400 has a DC resistance
of 
 > 0.304 ohms, so the voltage drop would only be 0.01V over that
length. 
 > That's well within specs for the antenna (5V +/- 0.5V) and the 
 > splitter (4.5 to 30V). 
 >  
 > The specs for Belden 1189AP quad-shield RG6/U cable with a
copper-clad 
 > steel center conductor and aluminum braid lists the total
resistance 
 > for both conductors to be 3.28 ohms over 100 feet. That's a
worst-case 
 > voltage drop of 0.12V over that distance, again within spec for
both 
 > devices. 
 >  
 > In short, LMR400 would be a better choice in terms of both signal 
 > attenuation and DC resistance, but the difference is more or less 
 > academic and either cable should work fine. 
 >  
 > Cheers! 
 > -Pete 
 >  
 > --  
 > Pete Stephenson 
 > ___ 
 > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com [5] 
 > To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [6] 
 > and follow the instructions there. 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[jimlux]

On 4/21/16 10:07 AM, Ryan Stasel wrote:

All,

Really awesome answers, thanks!

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with
something like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N
interface. The actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a
couple layers of the heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to
be internal to the mast anyway, so direct weather contact should be
minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little
to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note on
that regard.


even without direct sunlight, there is substantial UV exposure in some 
areas:  it reflects off the building and ground surfaces, and there's 
scattered UV from the sky and clouds.


I've got UV affected paper and plastic on the north side of my house 
where the sun never shines, but which is still exposed to the sky and 
which sees reflected UV from my neighbor's house.


Finding good numbers with google is tricky, but levels like 25% to 50% 
of sunlight levels are cited in a number of places.  Partly it's a 
"duration of exposure" thing: you get exposed as long as the sun is 
above the horizon, so while the intensity might be lower, the duration 
is longer.


And, of course, where you live makes a difference: in some places, the 
smog probably attenuates the UV a lot, so while UV degradation is 
minimized, now you have to worry about ozone.

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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Clay Autery]

Yup... layers = longevity

3M self-fusing rubber
comformal coating
3M electrical tap (with a fold back for removal)
conformal coating.

I've got 12 year old connections that are still going strong with no
measurable degradation.

I always use the best cable and connectors I can find...  do it right;
you only gotta do it once.

__
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/21/2016 8:02 AM, paul swed wrote:
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

Ryan a slight heads up.
Time Nuts is not about time accuracy as many people assume.
Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we know we have.
We just measure that time accurately.
I do not use anti seize. Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
deal with.
If you use the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> All,
>
> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>
> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something
> like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The
> actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the
> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side
> of my chimney, that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
> should be minimal. But good note on that regard.
>
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also
> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my
> seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly
> easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
> (har har) sells (Southwire (
> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Ryan Stasel
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
> held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
> years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >>
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise
> yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >>
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
> anyone
> >> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
> seizing
> >> it up.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Ryan Stasel
> >> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> >> University of Oregon
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
> >> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
> >> from and what the specs are.
> >>>
> >>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
> >> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3
> db.
> >> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
>  On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>  All,
> 
>  I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will
> need
> >> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
> >> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
> >> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
> >> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
> >> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
> >> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
> 
>  Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
> >> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
> >> again. =)
> 
>  Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
> >> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially
> one
> >> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages
> ago).
> >> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> >> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> 
>  Thanks!
> 
>  -Ryan Stasel
> 
> 
>  ___
>  time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>  To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> 

Re: [time-nuts] Subject change - sources for coax cable and other RF stuff - was RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna

[William H. Fite]

Antenna Farm is also good. They'll terminate any length for you at
reasonable cost.

http://www.theantennafarm.com/

No financial interest, just a satisfied customer.

Bill



On Thursday, April 21, 2016, DaveH  wrote:

> If you are looking at getting some LMR400, Ham Radio Outlet has a branch in
> Portland and they are really nice people to deal with.
>
> http://www.hamradio.com/
>
> I have zero financial interest outside of being a very happy customer.
>
> The Wire Man is also very very good.
>
> http://thewireman.com/index.html
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Ryan Stasel
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 18:03
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
> > (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> >
> > Bob/Paul,
> >
> > Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are
> > on "generic" RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their
> > LMR400, but otherwise yeah, RG6 is just easier. I have both
> > compression and crimp connectors for it, including some RG6
> > N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but they work).
> >
> > Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> > "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm
> > curious if anyone bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep
> > moisture from otherwise seizing it up.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Ryan Stasel
> > IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> > University of Oregon
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp >
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it's meeting the
> > published specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely
> > *know* where it came from and what the specs are.
> > >
> > > If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO's, a
> > powered splitter is a really good idea. Each time you split
> > another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at least a 4 way splitter ..
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> I'm going to be installing a "permanent" antenna at home,
> > and will need a run of about 100ft to get from my
> > workstation, to the mast I'll be mounting the antenna on
> > (Symmetricom 58532A). I've seen some indication that both the
> > antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won't have any issues
> > with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I'd ask the
> > "experts" whether I'd be better off with some RG6
> > Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I've got a local source that doesn't
> > know what LMR400 is, or what it's worth)?
> > >>
> > >> Obviously I'd prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I'd be
> > better off with LMR400, I'd rather run that now than go back
> > into the crawlspace again. =)
> > >>
> > >> Also, if it helps, I'll probably have a Symmetricom/HP
> > 58516A at/near the T-bolt so I can experiment with other
> > GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the JRMiller boards I
> > bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which brings
> > the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> > power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> -Ryan Stasel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> > >> To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > >> and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
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>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

All, 

Really awesome answers, thanks! 

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something like 
anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The actual 
connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast anyway, so direct 
weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that 
gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good 
note on that regard. 

Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also the 
fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my seller 
wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly easier to 
handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot (har har) 
sells (Southwire 
(http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
 I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it. 

Thanks again! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> Bob/Paul,
>> 
>> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
>> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
>> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
>> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
>> they work).
>> 
>> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
>> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
>> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
>> it up.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Ryan Stasel
>> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
>> University of Oregon
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
>> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
>> from and what the specs are.
>>> 
>>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
>> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db.
>> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
 
 All,
 
 I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need
>> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
>> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
>> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
>> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
>> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
>> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
 
 Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
>> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
>> again. =)
 
 Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
>> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one
>> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
>> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
>> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
 
 Thanks!
 
 -Ryan Stasel
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can "weatherproof" 
> the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone bothers to "lube" 
> the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing it up.

I've got an antenna like this on my roof.  For all practical purposes
the N connector is in an indoor environment.  The connector and the
cable is inside a pipe that is sealed from weather.  In my case the
pipe extends through the roof into the attic.  No part of the cable or
connector is exposed to the elements.   In the attic there is a small
metal junction box and I make a transition to 1" plastic conduit  The
flexible plastic conduit was cheap and is code approved for low
voltage wring.  It will make a cable change out and easy job should I
ever need to do that.

I used the conduit because like you I was debating what kind of cable
to use.  I went with the cheap kind and figured I could upgrade if
need be.   It's an easy job to use the old cable to pull the new cable
but I never had to do that.  My T-Bolt and Motorola GPSes work well
with the cheap cable.  (my antenna has a 26db amp inside.)
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Most of the data sheets on RG-6 Quad show it around 9 db per 100’. Like any of 
the 
“old” (RG) specs, there really is no control on who does what with a given type 
of
cable. The direct burial versions seem to be a little more consistent. 

Bob


> On Apr 20, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Pete Stephenson  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> All,
>> 
>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a 
>> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting 
>> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
>> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
>> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off 
>> with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t 
>> know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
>> 
>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
>> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
> 
> I'm hardly an expert, but according to the Times Microwave calculator
> at , RG6 (of unspecified
> type, presumably double not quad-shielded) at 1542MHz will have a loss
> of 12dB over a 100ft length. LMR400 will have a loss of 5.2dB over
> that same length.
> 
> The datasheet for your specific cable should show the loss figures.
> 
> The 58532A has an amplifier with a gain of >30dB, so it should work
> well even at moderate cable lengths.
> 
> Keep in mind that the Thunderbolt Starter kit came with a Trimble
> Bullet antenna (similar gain to the 58532A) and 75 feet of RG6; it'll
> almost certainly work fine with 100ft of cable: the manual for the
> Thunderbolt recommends RG-59 cable (presumably because it's cheap and
> common) and states "The maximum practical cable run is just over 100
> feet." A graph in the manual shows RG-59 losing 15dB over 100ft,
> 
> To be safe, you could always test it by connecting the 100ft of cable
> to the antenna and putting it outside in a more convenient location
> that has a similar view as your mast and seeing how the Thunderbolt
> likes it.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the 58516A splitter can have between +3 and -3
> dB of gain depending on your luck as to how it was made. The manual
> says that for relatively lossy RG-213 cable and the worst case
> performance of the 58516A, you should be fine with up to 174 feet of
> cable with no line amplifier.
> 
>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
>> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of 
>> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
>> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
>> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> 
> Short answer: Yes.
> 
> Longer answer: The Thunderbolt manual says it can supply 5V at up to
> 45mA. The 58532A antenna draws a max of 27mA (with 20mA being
> typical). The 58516A splitter manual draws it uses 10mA. Worst case
> usage is 37mA, which is within the limits for the Thunderbolt.
> 
> Considering both conductors, 100ft of LMR400 has a DC resistance of
> 0.304 ohms, so the voltage drop would only be 0.01V over that length.
> That's well within specs for the antenna (5V +/- 0.5V) and the
> splitter (4.5 to 30V).
> 
> The specs for Belden 1189AP quad-shield RG6/U cable with a copper-clad
> steel center conductor and aluminum braid lists the total resistance
> for both conductors to be 3.28 ohms over 100 feet. That's a worst-case
> voltage drop of 0.12V over that distance, again within spec for both
> devices.
> 
> In short, LMR400 would be a better choice in terms of both signal
> attenuation and DC resistance, but the difference is more or less
> academic and either cable should work fine.
> 
> Cheers!
> -Pete
> 
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
Layer of rubber tape
scotch kote
Layer of plastic tape
scotch kote
If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
connectors and coax.
The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
But as I say everyone has their own approach.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> Bob/Paul,
>
> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> they work).
>
> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
> it up.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan Stasel
> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> University of Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
> from and what the specs are.
> >
> > If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db.
> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need
> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
> >>
> >> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
> again. =)
> >>
> >> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one
> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Ryan Stasel
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Adapting my GPSDO to the FE-5680A

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:31:04 -0700
Nick Sayer via time-nuts  wrote:


> I believe there are two separate commands for tuning the 5680 - one is
> “temporary” and one writes through to the EEPROM. I’ll be using the latter,
> of course.

Ah.. ok. Didn't know there are two.


> http://www.ka7oei.com/10_MHz_Rubidium_FE-5680A.html
> 
> I do agree that the short term stability of the 5680A isn’t as good as an
> OCXO, but at tau ~2s or so, the tables are turned. I’m getting a good measure
> of my undisciplined 5680A as we speak to get a good control, but it’s
> difficult, as I’m testing it against a Thunderbolt, and I think I’m seeing
> its “hump” (http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/gpsdo/) from 10s to 300s coming
> through.

Comparing an Rb to a GPSDO at taus below 1k-10k seconds is probably being
dominated by the GPSDO noise anyways. To actually see the stability
improvements of using an Rb as oscillator for an GPSDO instead of an OCXO
you will need something more stable. Either use an ensemble of good rubidiums,
or you need a Cs beam standard. Using multiple GSPDO with different antennas
is not going to help as the errors will be correlated due to short baseline.


> In any event, I’m getting awfully close to the limits of my 53220a.

There are people working on solving this problem :-)

> I may go down the road of trying to make a mash-up as you suggest,
> but I’m going to start by seeing if I can give myself a choice between
> whether I want short term stability (OCXO) or medium term (Rubidium)
> for my reference.

Hehe.. it looks like you are going down the time-nuts road ;-)


Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Magnus Danielson]

Ryan,

LMR400 give you low loss and relatively high temperature stability.
That's what I use. If you can get it at a decent price, use it.

The foam core isolation is sensitive to being squeezed. Also be careful 
not to make tight bends, but rather let it have large bending radius.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 04/20/2016 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel wrote:

All,

I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a run 
of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting the 
antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off with 
some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t know what 
LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?

Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)

Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the 
JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which brings 
the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that splitter 
and the antenna over that length of cable?

Thanks!

-Ryan Stasel


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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Attila Kinali]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 05:13:20 +
Mark Sims  wrote:


> Well,  Lady Heather finally got off her ample ass and dug into the
> tao of X11 and all things Linuxy. 

Cool! What did you use as widget set? Or did you use xlib directly?

> One thing that will probably not be supported is sound file support... 
> playing .WAV files asynchronously does not seem to come naturally to Linux. 
> Does anybody know of a simple / lazy bastard way to play a sound file in the
> background from a C/C++ program...  I'd really like my GPS disciplined
> singing clock to work.

For simple playing, you don't need any library. Just write your wav
file directly into /dev/dsp. The usual way to use it is to have a
select() or poll() call in your main event loop and check whether
the file handle can accept more data. If you need it to be fully
asynchrounus, just fork a new process and do the loop there (adds maybe
10-20 lines or so). (dont worry about overhead here. as forking is much
cheaper on unix than on windows, forking to play a wav once in a while is
not going to hurt)


Attila Kinali

-- 
Reading can seriously damage your ignorance.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

select() is the best way to keep from blocking, at least if you’re not going to 
use threads or sub-processes.

Unless you’re going to support one or more of the intermediate sound libraries 
(ALSA comes to mind), then playing a sound involves opening a device, using 
ioctl()s to set the format and rate and the like, and then writing the samples 
out and closing, which takes me back to select().

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 10:13 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> 
> Well,  Lady Heather finally got off her ample ass and dug into the tao of X11 
> and all things Linuxy.   The program is currently working well enough to 
> display log files, etc.  Serial port initialization for non-blocking 
> asynchronous I/O needs to be completed.   I have it working on a couple of 
> Ubuntu Mate boxes  (X86 and Mac Mini power pc G4) and a Raspberry Pi 3.  I 
> need to tweak the Pi color palette initialization code... the bastards 
> defaulted it to a 16 bit RGB 565 frame buffer...
> One thing that will probably not be supported is sound file support...  
> playing .WAV files asynchronously does not seem to come naturally to Linux.  
> Does anybody know of a simple / lazy bastard way to play a sound file in the 
> background from a C/C++ program...  I'd really like my GPS disciplined 
> singing clock to work.
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Adapting my GPSDO to the FE-5680A

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:44:49 + (UTC)
Bruce Griffiths  wrote:

> Sampling at 4x(10MHz + 1kHz) followed by a digital image reject mixer
> would work better.The front end analog filter only needs to reject
> unwanted nyquist regions, thus it can have a wider bandwidth and low phase
> shift tempco. Its PN noise contribution can also be small. Digital filters
> can be used to reject the undesired spurs.

Yes, the problem with this is that Nick used a ATtiny as uC, which is not
powerfull enough to munch 10Msps of data. Going to something more powerfull
like a Cortex-M3 or so, should allow to do that, though 

An alternative would be to use a small FPGA like a Lattice ICE4 or an
Altera MAX and use that to do the sampling, and the PLL. Then using the
PLL/NCO tune word as output once in a while would be very easy to do and
would use very little resources on the uC.

But if you have never done anything with an FPGA that's quite a step up
in design complexity (though once you know how to do it, it's not more
difficult than to use a uC).

BTW: if one would go the FPGA way, i would recommend using a more
powerfull ADC that can do 40Msps (still quite cheap, especially
if only an 8bit variant is used) and clock everything from a 38.8MHz
crystal. Either using a PLL to lock the 38.8MHz oscillator to the 10MHz
OCXO, or using a dual ADC and sample both reference and OCXO at the same
time.

Attila Kinali

-- 
Reading can seriously damage your ignorance.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Orin Eman]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:

>
> One thing that will probably not be supported is sound file support...
> playing .WAV files asynchronously does not seem to come naturally to
> Linux.  Does anybody know of a simple / lazy bastard way to play a sound
> file in the background from a C/C++ program...  I'd really like my GPS
> disciplined singing clock to work.
>


Why not run up a thread and play the sound synchronously in the thread?
I'd use std::thread if in C++ land, otherwise, you are in pthread hell.

If a thread doesn't work, there's always fork/exec...
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[time-nuts] Subject change - sources for coax cable and other RF stuff - was RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna

[DaveH]

If you are looking at getting some LMR400, Ham Radio Outlet has a branch in
Portland and they are really nice people to deal with.

http://www.hamradio.com/

I have zero financial interest outside of being a very happy customer.

The Wire Man is also very very good.

http://thewireman.com/index.html


Dave
 

> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
> Of Ryan Stasel
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 18:03
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna 
> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> 
> Bob/Paul,
> 
> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are 
> on "generic" RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their 
> LMR400, but otherwise yeah, RG6 is just easier. I have both 
> compression and crimp connectors for it, including some RG6 
> N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but they work). 
> 
> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can 
> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm 
> curious if anyone bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep 
> moisture from otherwise seizing it up. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ryan Stasel
> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> University of Oregon
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi
> > 
> > RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it's meeting the 
> published specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely 
> *know* where it came from and what the specs are. 
> > 
> > If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO's, a 
> powered splitter is a really good idea. Each time you split 
> another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at least a 4 way splitter ..
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> >> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> All, 
> >> 
> >> I'm going to be installing a "permanent" antenna at home, 
> and will need a run of about 100ft to get from my 
> workstation, to the mast I'll be mounting the antenna on 
> (Symmetricom 58532A). I've seen some indication that both the 
> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won't have any issues 
> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I'd ask the 
> "experts" whether I'd be better off with some RG6 
> Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I've got a local source that doesn't 
> know what LMR400 is, or what it's worth)? 
> >> 
> >> Obviously I'd prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I'd be 
> better off with LMR400, I'd rather run that now than go back 
> into the crawlspace again. =)
> >> 
> >> Also, if it helps, I'll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 
> 58516A at/near the T-bolt so I can experiment with other 
> GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the JRMiller boards I 
> bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which brings 
> the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to 
> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable? 
> >> 
> >> Thanks! 
> >> 
> >> -Ryan Stasel
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> > 
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather coming soon to a Linux box near you...

[Mark Sims]

Well,  Lady Heather finally got off her ample ass and dug into the tao of X11 
and all things Linuxy.   The program is currently working well enough to 
display log files, etc.  Serial port initialization for non-blocking 
asynchronous I/O needs to be completed.   I have it working on a couple of 
Ubuntu Mate boxes  (X86 and Mac Mini power pc G4) and a Raspberry Pi 3.  I need 
to tweak the Pi color palette initialization code... the bastards defaulted it 
to a 16 bit RGB 565 frame buffer...
One thing that will probably not be supported is sound file support...  playing 
.WAV files asynchronously does not seem to come naturally to Linux.  Does 
anybody know of a simple / lazy bastard way to play a sound file in the 
background from a C/C++ program...  I'd really like my GPS disciplined singing 
clock to work.

  
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