[time-nuts] Spectracom 9183 and leap second

[Chris Arnold via time-nuts]

Just wondering if any one is familiar with the Spectracom GPS9183 NTP server?


It has a clock on the gui, and on the front panel. What are the chances that 
either will show the leap second coming up?


Also have a thunderbolt. Will that show it?


73
Chris
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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Bruce Bell]

As far as the warm end of the temperature spectrum goes, I have used a
Crockpot without the crock and put a thermometer probe inside. when I
wanted it to stay at a specific temperature I threw a blanket over it and
shut it off.  I suspect you could get it to hold temperature better by
 simply controlling the voltage to it.
For the cold end perhaps, you could put the ceramic crock in the freezer
(roughly 0°F). It would warm slowly enough that you could perform testing
along the way.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

> As we all know, step #1 in making a clock is NOT
> to build a thermometer :-)
>
> I thought I would check the brain trust here to see
> if anyone has seen a hobbyist grade temperature
> testing chamber or kit or homebrew design.  I
> have some crystals, oscillators, and other
> electronics I would like to characterize over
> temperature.  I know this reflector has discussed
> homebrew stabilization ovens; however, they
> have tended to have very long time constants
> (which makes sense for that application).  I
> need to be able to change temperature in a
> reasonable amount of time, and I don't need
> extreme stability.  Looking for any ideas,
> maybe in the "maker" spirit.  I think the
> size I need would be perhaps 1/2 the size
> of a shoebox.
>
> BTW, in case someone has a chamber to sell,
> let me know...
>
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
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[time-nuts] : Re: Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature

[Robert Harmon]

Also worked for Collins in late 70's in Cedar Rapids. Had to go to the dry ice 
bin with a few rags, grab a few dry ice cubes, take em back to the aluminum box 
coolers and beat em down to smaller pieces with a hammer while still wrapped in 
rags  and then drop em in the cooler. We had a lot of rags with holes in them.

> Rick Karlquist N6RK
Another thing I've done in the (distant) past is two cheap foam coolers with a 
muffin fan between them.  fill one with dry ice and control the fan for 
cooling.  This was the essence of the bench coolers when I worked for Collins 
Radio in the late 70's. In that case they were aluminum boxes with foam walls.  
They had Edison based wire heaters with porcelain forms.  OSHA nightmare, but 
worked for the task at hand. Used simple bang-bang controllers.


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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Rick:

I've used two types.
1. Most of the replies have been for controlled air temperature devices.  These are by far the most common but also they 
take a long time to change temperature.
2. Hot/Cold plates are much faster since the DUT is in close contact with the plate.  We used these with a PID 
controller and liquid Nitrogen gas.  Just toss a towel over the DUT and you have very fast cycle times.


I built a DIY version for heat only using a couple of flexible heater strips glued to aluminum blocks, a PID controller 
and a 10k thermistor embedded in one of the blocks.   The Steinhart-Hart thermistor equation is of the third order with 
respect to R but it is linear with respect to the coefficients making it easy to fit.

http://www.prc68.com/I/Sensors.shtml#Temperature

The unit is hiding from me, maybe it's photo shy.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 

As we all know, step #1 in making a clock is NOT
to build a thermometer :-)

I thought I would check the brain trust here to see
if anyone has seen a hobbyist grade temperature
testing chamber or kit or homebrew design.  I
have some crystals, oscillators, and other
electronics I would like to characterize over
temperature.  I know this reflector has discussed
homebrew stabilization ovens; however, they
have tended to have very long time constants
(which makes sense for that application).  I
need to be able to change temperature in a
reasonable amount of time, and I don't need
extreme stability.  Looking for any ideas,
maybe in the "maker" spirit.  I think the
size I need would be perhaps 1/2 the size
of a shoebox.

BTW, in case someone has a chamber to sell,
let me know...

Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTFm-II-XO

[Bob Camp]

Hi

One might *think* a redundant system would work fine with the plug yanked. 
In this case …. nope. It needs to have a dummy connector on it to get the device
running. I agree that this is an “interesting” way to do it. Regardless of 
that, they
did the units need the signals from the other box (or fake signals)  before 
they 
will do useful stuff.

Bob


> On Sep 5, 2016, at 10:22 PM, Bill Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> Fake connections? Isn't a redundant system supposed to allow one box to
> be disconnected?
> 
> Bill Hawkins 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Camp
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 8:20 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTFm-II-XO
> 
> Hi
> 
> If you only have one box, you need to be sure the "fake" connections on
> the interconnect are correct. If they are not, you will not get it to
> operate correctly. 
> 
> There also is a survey process if you have not had it running in your
> location before. That could take a few hours to a few days depending on
> your antenna.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Scott Stobbe]

It is amazing what is available for 10 - 20 dollars. Some of the LED
drivers have a dimming input on the low voltage side. Not sure of the
detailed implementation of a din temperature controller with 4-20 mA
output, but it might be as simple as tl431 shunt reference and a resistor
network to map 4-20 mA to the 1 - 10 VDC analog input of an LED driver
(there are a plethora available "Meanwell led driver" is one that comes to
mind).

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:05 AM, jimlux  wrote:

> On 9/5/16 8:52 PM, Scott Stobbe wrote:
>
>> The bargain price mini coolers are often peltier cooled, they appear to
>> fall under the marketing term "thermoelectric mini-fridge". I can't think
>> of a project name, but I'm sure I've seen this done before using a mini
>> fridge.
>>
>>
> https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek%C2%AE-Digital-Temperature-Cont
> roller-Alarm/dp/B005NGL5AK
>
> Not used this particular one, but i have some that look quite similar, and
> work well.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 146, Issue 13

[Dan Kemppainen]

This may help.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
Look at: SYL-1512A  (Or any of the others, really...)

If you want to lock a temp down and use a light bulb or similar, this is 
a pretty cheap way to go. I've used them for large soldering irons, 
reptile incubators, and temp chambers. They work great if you need to 
hold temp long to stabilize everything before a measurement. Very nice 
units for the price.


I'm sure you know this, but watch your temp gradients in the chamber.

Dan






As we all know, step #1 in making a clock is NOT
to build a thermometer:-)

I thought I would check the brain trust here to see
if anyone has seen a hobbyist grade temperature
testing chamber or kit or homebrew design.  I
have some crystals, oscillators, and other
electronics I would like to characterize over
temperature.  I know this reflector has discussed
homebrew stabilization ovens; however, they
have tended to have very long time constants
(which makes sense for that application).  I
need to be able to change temperature in a
reasonable amount of time, and I don't need
extreme stability.  Looking for any ideas,
maybe in the "maker" spirit.  I think the
size I need would be perhaps 1/2 the size
of a shoebox.

BTW, in case someone has a chamber to sell,
let me know...

Rick Karlquist N6RK

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[time-nuts] Z3801A gps week rollover

[Mark Sims]

Happy until the next power glitch...  the setting does not seem to persist 
between boots.   There may also be other conditions that causes it to forget 
your date.

And when setting the date, you should disconnect the antenna first, then power 
on.  Once the unit starts tracking satellites you can no longer enter the date.


---

> I had one that screwed up.  I power cycled and set the date.  It's happy now.
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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Oz-in-DFW]

On 9/5/2016 9:48 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

> As we all know, step #1 in making a clock is NOT
> to build a thermometer :-)
>
> I thought I would check the brain trust here to see
> if anyone has seen a hobbyist grade temperature
> testing chamber or kit or homebrew design.



> Rick Karlquist N6RK
Another thing I've done in the (distant) past is two cheap foam coolers
with a muffin fan between them.  fill one with dry ice and control the
fan for cooling.  This was the essence of the bench coolers when I
worked for Collins Radio in the late 70's. In that case they were
aluminum boxes with foam walls.  They had Edison based wire heaters with
porcelain forms.  OSHA nightmare, but worked for the task at hand. Used
simple bang-bang controllers.

There are cheap (~$25) Chinese PID controllers, but as I said, I use the
Pico-reflow controller.  Almost as cheap and a /lot/ more flexible.

Oz (N1OZ, in DFW)

-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 



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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Bruce Griffiths]

Also avoids thermomechanical fatigue failure in the Peltier device.
 

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 12:14 AM, jimlux  
wrote:
 

 On 9/6/16 1:19 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Bob Darlington 
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I'm going from memory here.  My former business partner (now deceased) had
>> a "beer fridge" setup as an environmental chamber for our instruments.  The
>> trick for stability was to run the AC compressor all the time, and push
>> against it with heat lamps.
>
>
>
> I had a commercial environmental chamber  : it did exactly this.  The
> fridge unit could be controlled from an auxiliary output of the PID
> controller but the basic principle was to heat from ambient, or heat
> against the fridge for lower temperatures. Maybe Peltier systems can have a
> cleaner rollover for cooling, but gas-based coolers have far too much
> settling time / transients / hysteresis to be actively in the control loop.
>


One thing we just found when using a Peltier type device is that the 
stock controller typically PWM modulates the 12-24V supply voltage going 
to the TE device. This produces enormous current/voltage transients 
(many amps at 24V slamming on and off) at some audio frequency which is 
sufficient to disrupt your carefully designed quiet device

On our controllers (from TE Tech) you can use an external DC power 
supply that has a remote programming input (e.g. a unipolar power 
amplifier) and it just uses the H bridge to switch polarity to the 
Peltier.  This is MUCH quieter EMI/EMC wise.

The other issue is the condensation/frost when you go cold.

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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[jimlux]

On 9/6/16 1:19 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Bob Darlington 
wrote:


Rick,

I'm going from memory here.  My former business partner (now deceased) had
a "beer fridge" setup as an environmental chamber for our instruments.  The
trick for stability was to run the AC compressor all the time, and push
against it with heat lamps.




I had a commercial environmental chamber  : it did exactly this.  The
fridge unit could be controlled from an auxiliary output of the PID
controller but the basic principle was to heat from ambient, or heat
against the fridge for lower temperatures. Maybe Peltier systems can have a
cleaner rollover for cooling, but gas-based coolers have far too much
settling time / transients / hysteresis to be actively in the control loop.




One thing we just found when using a Peltier type device is that the 
stock controller typically PWM modulates the 12-24V supply voltage going 
to the TE device. This produces enormous current/voltage transients 
(many amps at 24V slamming on and off) at some audio frequency which is 
sufficient to disrupt your carefully designed quiet device


On our controllers (from TE Tech) you can use an external DC power 
supply that has a remote programming input (e.g. a unipolar power 
amplifier) and it just uses the H bridge to switch polarity to the 
Peltier.  This is MUCH quieter EMI/EMC wise.


The other issue is the condensation/frost when you go cold.

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS? Antenna

[Szeker K.]

Yes its H-S model, and it must be a GPS antenna...
http://www.cafr.ebay.ca/itm/Ericsson-KRE-1012082-1-GPS-Antenna-26dBi-For-HUBER-SUHNER-84097323-/182012930579?hash=item2a60d0ea13:g:MAMAAOSwZd1Vdn6-
Regards
Karl

2016-09-06 5:12 GMT+02:00 Chris Waldrup :

> It's a Huber Suhner.
>
> Chris
>
> > On Sep 5, 2016, at 21:26, Glenn Little WB4UIV <
> glennmaill...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > Pete,
> >
> > I do not know if I can send a picture to the mailing list.
> >
> > I am sending this to you and the list.
> >
> > The antenna is 4 inches from tip of cone to bottom of type-N connector.
> > It is 2 5/8" in diameter.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 9/5/2016 8:25 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> >> Nemko is the Norwegian "UL", my guess is the numbers are the
> >> test/certification numbers. A picture would help
> >>
> >> -pete
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Glenn Little WB4UIV
> >> mailto:glennmaill...@bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>At the last hamfest that I attended, I bought an antenna that looks
> >>like a GPS antenna.
> >>The price was right.
> >>This is a Nemko Article number: 84097323, Type number 1315.17.0018.
> >>It has a manufacturing date of 09/2012.
> >>Can anyone tell me if this is in fact a GPS antenna and what voltage
> >>wold be required.
> >>I would suspect that it would be either 5VDC or 3.3 VDC based on the
> >>date.
> >>Any help appreciated.
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>73
> >>Glenn
> >>WB4UIV
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> ---
> >>Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM
> 28417
> >>Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.net
> >>AMSAT LM 2178
> >>QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
> >>"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
> >>of the Amateur that holds the license"
> >>
> ---
> >>___
> >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com  time-nuts@febo.com>
> >>To unsubscribe, go to
> >>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>
> >>and follow the instructions there.
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
> > Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178
> > QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
> > "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
> > of the Amateur that holds the license"
> > 
> ---
> > 
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Adrian Godwin]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Bob Darlington 
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I'm going from memory here.  My former business partner (now deceased) had
> a "beer fridge" setup as an environmental chamber for our instruments.  The
> trick for stability was to run the AC compressor all the time, and push
> against it with heat lamps.



I had a commercial environmental chamber  : it did exactly this.  The
fridge unit could be controlled from an auxiliary output of the PID
controller but the basic principle was to heat from ambient, or heat
against the fridge for lower temperatures. Maybe Peltier systems can have a
cleaner rollover for cooling, but gas-based coolers have far too much
settling time / transients / hysteresis to be actively in the control loop.
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Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

[Neville Michie]

Constant temperature chambers are not hard to build.
I assume you want stability in the range 0.001 to 0.01 degC.
I have made a few of these chambers, about 1 cubic feet, out of 3/4 inch 
particle board,
it is not a brilliant insulator, but you want some heat loss.
Make a partition at one end with both ends open as a radiation wall.
Behind the radiation wall instal one or two tungsten filament lamps,
about 50 watts for heaters, these have low thermal mass and fast response.
Instal a computer sized fan, behind the wall to reduce any radiant output to 
circulate the air in the box.
You want a small hurricane. On the far side of the box from the partition place 
a small bead thermistor, 
glass encapsulated are good. In the air flow this should have a response time 
of a second.
A proportional controller sets the temperature. Air velocity of up to 1m/s will 
not disturb items being tested 
but ensures low temperature gradients.
The trick is to have fast response in heater and measurement and no hysteresis 
in the controller.

cheers,
Neville Michie




> On 6 Sep 2016, at 12:48 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
> wrote:
> 
> As we all know, step #1 in making a clock is NOT
> to build a thermometer :-)
> 
> I thought I would check the brain trust here to see
> if anyone has seen a hobbyist grade temperature
> testing chamber or kit or homebrew design.  I
> have some crystals, oscillators, and other
> electronics I would like to characterize over
> temperature.  I know this reflector has discussed
> homebrew stabilization ovens; however, they
> have tended to have very long time constants
> (which makes sense for that application).  I
> need to be able to change temperature in a
> reasonable amount of time, and I don't need
> extreme stability.  Looking for any ideas,
> maybe in the "maker" spirit.  I think the
> size I need would be perhaps 1/2 the size
> of a shoebox.
> 
> BTW, in case someone has a chamber to sell,
> let me know...
> 
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A gps week rollover

[Hal Murray]

I had one that screwed up.  I power cycled and set the date.  It's happy now.


I'm not sure of the exact recipe to tell it the right date.  After feeding it 
a date of roughly today, the status screen jumped to Jan 2007.  After it 
found a few satellites and such, it jumped to Sep 2016.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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