Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Jeremy Nichols]

Thank you for the detailed analysis, Bill. The voltage measurements I made
in my garage laboratory were duplicated by the utility with their meter,
which was connected at the service entrance. We each showed voltage in
excess of 126 VAC. Date from the (U of Tennessee) Frequency Disturbance
Recorder also showed voltages in the 124-128 VAC range. The insignificant
voltage drop in the lab was due to the 200 Amp service (the house was
originally "all electric") and minimal load. In response to my concerns,
the utility dialed the voltage down to about 123 VAC where it remains today.

Jeremy


On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 8:49 PM Bill Byrom  wrote:

> There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
>
> voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found
>
> that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:
>
>
>
>
>
> * The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V +/- 5%
>
>   RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
>
>   114/228 V to 126/252 V.
>
> * The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 125/250 V
>
>   and be within specifications.
>
>
>
>
>
> There are two voltage measurement points to consider:
>
>
>
> (1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
>
> entrance to the building (at the metering point).
>
> (2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the load.
>
> It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip feeding
>
> several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are of
>
> course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
>
> business, depending on where you make the measurement.
>
>
>
>
>
> Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
>
> called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
>
> transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
>
> grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might be
>
> up to around 6 houses):
>
> (1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
>
> neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
>
> (2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the distribution
>
> system and at the service entrance to the building.
>
> (3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
>
> neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.
>
>
>
>
>
> Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
>
> (240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across L1-
>
> neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).
>
>
>
>
>
> The voltages I have described are the current standardized values for
>
> the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 years
>
> (120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed before
>
> 1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but after a
>
> report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 V,
>
> as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, in
>
> the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 120/240 V
>
> in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the utilization
>
> voltage at the load above 110/220 V.
>
>
>
>
>
> The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range A
>
> (120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should therefore
>
> be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should be
>
> between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.
>
>
>
>
>
> See details of the current specifications at:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
> These voltage specifications were designed for resistive loads and
>
> measurement of the true RMS voltage. In most electronic equipment built
>
> over the past 50 years, the power supply input circuitry is basically a
>
> rectifier connected to a smoothing capacitor. This leads to high input
>
> current surges during the peaks of the waveform, so that the peak
>
> voltage is reduced much more by the building wiring resistance than if
>
> the load was resistive for the same power consumption.
>
>
>
>
>
> So the waveform shape at different utilization locations in a building
>
> (with active equipment loads) may be different, so the voltage measured
>
> by different AC measuring instruments can differ. Many meters are full
>
> wave average measuring but calibrated so they only read RMS voltage
>
> correctly on pure sinewaves. Other meters are true RMS measuring and
>
> will read very close the correct RMS voltage even if the waveform is
>
> distorted.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Bill Byrom N5BB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017, at 12:16 PM, CIW308 VE6OH wrote:
>
>
>
> > Mark,
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > CSA have standards for over and under voltage, Typical no more that 3%
>
> > over and 5% under if memory serves me.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > This 

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Bill Byrom]

There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found
that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:


* The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V +/- 5%
  RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
  114/228 V to 126/252 V.
* The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 125/250 V
  and be within specifications.


There are two voltage measurement points to consider:

(1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
entrance to the building (at the metering point).
(2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the load.
It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip feeding
several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are of
course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
business, depending on where you make the measurement.


Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might be
up to around 6 houses):
(1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
(2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the distribution
system and at the service entrance to the building.
(3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.


Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
(240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across L1-
neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).


The voltages I have described are the current standardized values for
the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 years
(120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed before
1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but after a
report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 V,
as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, in
the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 120/240 V
in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the utilization
voltage at the load above 110/220 V.


The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range A
(120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should therefore
be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should be
between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.


See details of the current specifications at:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf


These voltage specifications were designed for resistive loads and
measurement of the true RMS voltage. In most electronic equipment built
over the past 50 years, the power supply input circuitry is basically a
rectifier connected to a smoothing capacitor. This leads to high input
current surges during the peaks of the waveform, so that the peak
voltage is reduced much more by the building wiring resistance than if
the load was resistive for the same power consumption.


So the waveform shape at different utilization locations in a building
(with active equipment loads) may be different, so the voltage measured
by different AC measuring instruments can differ. Many meters are full
wave average measuring but calibrated so they only read RMS voltage
correctly on pure sinewaves. Other meters are true RMS measuring and
will read very close the correct RMS voltage even if the waveform is
distorted.
--

Bill Byrom N5BB





On Sun, Jan 1, 2017, at 12:16 PM, CIW308 VE6OH wrote:

> Mark,

> 

> CSA have standards for over and under voltage, Typical no more that 3%
> over and 5% under if memory serves me.

> 

> This might help (

> http://www.safetyauthority.ca/sites/default/files/csa-fia3660-voltagedropcalc.pdf
> )

> The power companies here in Alberta are generally good about fixing

> problems with line regulation.

> There can be problems with industrial areas and big welders or motors
> staring as I am sure you know.

> I am sure they do not want the bill for replacing equipment that was

> subjected to over voltage.

> 

> On UPSs: I am sure you are aware that may of them are not TRUE
> sine wave
> so the DMM may not read correctly.

> 

> Mitch


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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Hal Murray]

m...@alignedsolutions.com said:
> Are there "leap second" test sets that non time nuts could use to generate
> leap second events during pre commissioning tests ?   (I'm envisioning some
> form of NTP server that could generate leap second events on command ?) 

There is a file of leap seconds.  You can edit it to add your own.  Then the 
normal ntpd will make leap seconds.

That only makes them at midnight UTC.

The file has a checksum.  You either have to write some code to compute the 
new checksum, or comment it out and use a version of ntpd that accepts a leap 
file without a checksum.




-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Leap-second capture on laptop

[Sanjeev Gupta]

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:44 PM, David Malone  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 05:05:45AM -0800, Hal Murray wrote:
> > gha...@gmail.com said:
> > > No NTP was running.
>
> > What software told the kernel that there was going to be a leap second
> at the
> > end of the day?
>
> I guess it was part of systemd?
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-timesyncd


Yes, please.

-- 
Sanjeev Gupta
+65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane
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Re: [time-nuts] Reproducibility of position data from multiple surveys of HP 58503A GPS receiver

[Christopher Hoover]

My 58503A was showing an alarm when I came into the shack this morning.
(I forgot to jot down the text on the display.)  I cleared the alarm
(Shift-Alt) and it otherwise seems 100% happy.

-ch
73 de AI6KG

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> I put my HP 58503A into an infinite loop where
>
> 1) Forced GPS receiver to do a survey (GPS:POS:SURVEY ONCE)
> 2) Waited until survey was complete (GPS:POS:HOLD? returns 1)  This takes
> about 2 hour.
> 3) Recorded date (SYST:DATE?), time (SYST:TIME?) and location (GPS:POS?)
>
> For about 4 hours before the leap second, I stopped this, so the clock was
> right at the time of the leap second. Then I restarted some time after
> midnight.
>
> The actual data file is here
>
> http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/HP-58503A/gps.log
>
> which is being updated whenever a survey is complete, and new data
> collected - about once every 2 hours.
>
> A plot of the height from the first 19 data points is here.
>
> http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/HP-58503A/gps-height.pdf
>
> Unlike hte log, this is not being updated dynamically - I should have used
> another machine which has gnuplot on it for that.
>
> Anyway, based on the first 19 data points, the antenna height appears to
> be anywhere from 40 to 48.5 m. I'm pretty sure it is not bouncing up and
> down 8.5 metres! The latitude and longitude move too. I've not converted
> them into metres, so I don't know how much they represent.
>
> The antenna is about 3.5 m above ground level, mounted to the side of a
> garage, which is higher. I could push it another 2 m or so by mounting it
> on the garage, but not without drilling holes in the garage which will not
> exactly make the XYL happy, although I guess if I do it when she is not
> looking, its a bit late to moan then!
>
> I was thinking of telling the receiver the location is an "average" of the
> data points. Some thought would need to be given to averaging, although I
> would have thought in my latitude (51 deg, 39' N), and distance from the
> meridian (0 deg, 41' E), a simple mean would not be a bad figure. But I
> stand to be corrected.
>
> --
> Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd
> Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3
> 6DT, UK.
> Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.
> http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please)
>
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Mark Spencer]

Sorry if this comes across as a bit cynical but...

Presumably system functionality during leap second events would be something 
that is (or could be ?)tested during the pre commissioning phase of a systems 
implementation ?   I would have thought this would be especially important for 
"emergency" systems ?

Are there "leap second" test sets that non time nuts could use to generate leap 
second events during pre commissioning tests ?   (I'm envisioning some form of 
NTP server that could generate leap second events on command ?)

Best regards 
Mark Spencer

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Agreed, but new years eve is a special case for emergency services in 
> particular.
> 
> 
>> On 2/01/2017, at 2:38 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Insertion times that are convenient for some could be a major pain for 
>> others. There is no 
>> single “good” time to insert a leap second. You might argue that doing it 
>> while the financial 
>> markets are closed is a good idea. That sort of rules out the middle of the 
>> week. You also
>> could argue that you do it when everybody is on hand to fix things. That 
>> sort of rules out
>> weekends. With two simple “rules”, the entire week has been crossed off the 
>> list ….
>> 
>> If you go back in the archives, you will find significant discussion going 
>> on about dropping
>> leap seconds altogether. That would indeed eliminate the need to schedule 
>> them. It also 
>> would eventually result in some odd adjustments to local time. 
>> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If so, they should think about adding the leap second on the night of the 
>>> 2nd wednesday of January, or such a time when things are quieter around the 
>>> world.
>>> 
>>> Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the 
>>> world, or are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of 
>>> those in the UK for half of Jan 1st?
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Will Kimber]

Geoff

I have also noted the pips sound different and seem to recall an on air 
comment about using local time*.  The last pip is not always longer.


You have also got to watch out for them using off air Freeview satellite 
transmissions rebroadcast on normal radio stations!


Cheers,

Will

ZL1TAO

* Maybe from the Carter Observatory where the old solar transit was.  
I'm not suggesting that they use it still.



On 01/02/2017 12:46 PM, Kiwi Geoff wrote:

Will Kimber  wrote:

If you listened to Radio New  Zealand National news New Year's day
morning you would have heard then stating there will be 7 pips at 1:00pm.

However there were only 6 !!! So what happened?

I was listening to both of the above events too, and agree with your
comments Will.

The following is just my "observations" over the last few years as a
keen RNZ listener, and so may not be correct to those in the know.

To my ears, there are two "types" of Time Pips:

The "normal" time pips sound like reasonably pure sine-waves of 1KHz,
and are always correct to my house standard, and would be derived from
the atomic clocks at:

Measurement Standards Laboratory
Callaghan Innovation
PO Box 31 310
Lower Hutt 5040
New Zealand

https://www.msl.irl.cri.nz/services/time-and-frequency

The "other" time pips sound different, they appear to be shorter in
duration and more like a square-wave at 1KHz than a sine-wave. I
assume they are locally generated at RNZ and are used when the
land-line to Lower Hutt is broken by road-works, earthquakes, or a
digger driver with a careless hand !

In the past I have detected the "other" time pips drifting by about
half a second per day, so I assume it's a relatively simple XO that is
used rather than a GPS which I thought would have been a better option
for a standby reference.

So my guess as to what is currently going on (for RNZ time pips) is
that they are using the backup system , which appears to be manually
set - and is yet to be manually set by a man!

Maybe someone who knows someone in RNZ engineering, can give a more
accurate picture than just my conjecture.

Regards, Geoff ( Christchurch, New Zealand ).
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Re: [time-nuts] Version 5 wrong leap second

[Michael Blazer]

My tbolts/LH also showed 00:00:60.  The sequence was:

23:59:59
00:00:60
00:00:00
00:00:01

On 12/31/2016 6:28 PM, Bill Beam wrote:

My LH v5.00 showed leap second as 00:00:60 on a Tbolt. Not good

Previous June 2015 LH v3.10 correctly showed 23:59:60

If interested, I have screen captures.


Bill Beam
NL7F



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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Kiwi Geoff]

Will Kimber  wrote:
> If you listened to Radio New  Zealand National news New Year's day
> morning you would have heard then stating there will be 7 pips at 1:00pm.
>
> However there were only 6 !!! So what happened?

I was listening to both of the above events too, and agree with your
comments Will.

The following is just my "observations" over the last few years as a
keen RNZ listener, and so may not be correct to those in the know.

To my ears, there are two "types" of Time Pips:

The "normal" time pips sound like reasonably pure sine-waves of 1KHz,
and are always correct to my house standard, and would be derived from
the atomic clocks at:

Measurement Standards Laboratory
Callaghan Innovation
PO Box 31 310
Lower Hutt 5040
New Zealand

https://www.msl.irl.cri.nz/services/time-and-frequency

The "other" time pips sound different, they appear to be shorter in
duration and more like a square-wave at 1KHz than a sine-wave. I
assume they are locally generated at RNZ and are used when the
land-line to Lower Hutt is broken by road-works, earthquakes, or a
digger driver with a careless hand !

In the past I have detected the "other" time pips drifting by about
half a second per day, so I assume it's a relatively simple XO that is
used rather than a GPS which I thought would have been a better option
for a standby reference.

So my guess as to what is currently going on (for RNZ time pips) is
that they are using the backup system , which appears to be manually
set - and is yet to be manually set by a man!

Maybe someone who knows someone in RNZ engineering, can give a more
accurate picture than just my conjecture.

Regards, Geoff ( Christchurch, New Zealand ).
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[time-nuts] MTI 240 OCXO, anyone?

[Bruce Lane]

Happy New Year, fellow time-tickers!

Would anyone happen to have a spare MTI 240 series OCXO, 10MHz output?
I'm looking to upgrade my TS2100.

Failing the MTI, what alternates will work? I'd be very surprised if
Vectron didn't have an equivalent.

Thanks much.

-- 
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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[time-nuts] Line Voltage - CSA

[CIW308 VE6OH]

Mark,

CSA have standards for over and under voltage, Typical no more that 3% 
over and 5% under if memory serves me.


This might help ( 
http://www.safetyauthority.ca/sites/default/files/csa-fia3660-voltagedropcalc.pdf 
)
The power companies here in Alberta are generally good about fixing 
problems with line regulation.
There can be problems with industrial areas and big welders or motors 
staring as I am sure you know.
I am sure they do not want the bill for replacing equipment that was 
subjected to over voltage.


On UPSs: I am sure you are aware that may of them are not TRUE sine wave 
so the DMM may not read correctly.


Mitch,

Snip

--


J. T. (Mitch)  [Amateur radio  VE6OH]  [CFARS  CIW308]
email  mi...@andor.net  Mobile Cellular 780 446 8958
Past RAC Director for Alberta, NWT, NU  HTTP://WWW.RAC.CA

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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts]

Agreed, but new years eve is a special case for emergency services in 
particular.


On 2/01/2017, at 2:38 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Insertion times that are convenient for some could be a major pain for 
> others. There is no 
> single “good” time to insert a leap second. You might argue that doing it 
> while the financial 
> markets are closed is a good idea. That sort of rules out the middle of the 
> week. You also
> could argue that you do it when everybody is on hand to fix things. That sort 
> of rules out
> weekends. With two simple “rules”, the entire week has been crossed off the 
> list ….
> 
> If you go back in the archives, you will find significant discussion going on 
> about dropping
> leap seconds altogether. That would indeed eliminate the need to schedule 
> them. It also 
> would eventually result in some odd adjustments to local time. 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> If so, they should think about adding the leap second on the night of the 
>> 2nd wednesday of January, or such a time when things are quieter around the 
>> world.
>> 
>> Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world, 
>> or are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in 
>> the UK for half of Jan 1st?
>> 

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Re: [time-nuts] Piezo ocxo

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It likely has good phase noise, poor ADEV, and “interesting” temperature 
performance. 

Bob

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Chuck / Judy Burch  wrote:
> 
> 
> A few years ago I built a GPSDO using a Jupiter T and a Piezo Crystal Co. 
> model 2920136 OCXO.  Not having the equipment to test it I have always 
> wondered about the quality of the 2920136.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with it?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Chuck
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Kiwi Geoff]

Andy ( ZL3AG ) wrote:
> Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world,
> or are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in
> the UK for half of Jan 1st?

As far as our "Time Pips" in New Zealand go, it didn't appear to be
correct, right from the end of the last minute of the 2016 UTC year
(Sunday 13:00 , local NZ Summer time).

There should have been 7 pips (instead of the normal 6) as per:

https://www.msl.irl.cri.nz/services/time-and-frequency

however my audio recording of the "event" only has 6 pips.

Just listening now at 11am (Mon 2nd Jan) the "Time Pips" on National
Radio (like the US NPR ) are 1 second FAST, compared to my various GPS
and Internet devices.

So the Leap Second didn't leap as it should (time pip wise) here in NZ
for 2017, and the "Time Pips" are still currently incorrect !

Regards, Geoff (Christchurch , New Zealand).
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[time-nuts] Piezo ocxo

[Chuck / Judy Burch]

A few years ago I built a GPSDO using a Jupiter T and a Piezo Crystal 
Co. model 2920136 OCXO.  Not having the equipment to test it I have 
always wondered about the quality of the 2920136.


Anyone have any experience with it?

Thanks for your help.

Chuck
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Will Kimber]

Andy,

If you listened to Radio New  Zealand National news New Year's day 
morning you would have heard then stating there will be 7 pips at 1:00pm.


However there were only 6 !!! So what happened?

Cheers and Happy New year,
Will
ZL1TAO

On 01/02/2017 02:07 AM, Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts wrote:

If so, they should think about adding the leap second on the night of the 2nd 
wednesday of January, or such a time when things are quieter around the world.

Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world, or 
are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in the 
UK for half of Jan 1st?

On 2/01/2017, at 1:54 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:


I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather 5 leap second video

[Mark Sims]

Lady Heather's on-screen clocks "tick" when the GPS time code message comes in. 
 Most receivers send the time code message around  100-250 msecs after the 
actual 1PPS time.  A few (like the Z3801A) send it before the 1PPS time.  The 
Jupiter-T sends it around 1200 msecs after the 1PPS!

Heather applies an adjustment factor to the time in the time code message to 
compensate for the receiver message delay/offset.  If you don't specify an 
adjust factor (/tsx=msecs), it uses a typical value for the receiver.   
Normally the time in the digital clock is shown down to seconds.  You can see 
the (adjusted) time down to the millisecond with the "TM" keyboard command.  
The hand positions in the analog watch display have the receiver adjustment 
factor, it's just that the clock is ticking when the time code message comes in.

--

>  I am wandering, if anybody else noticed that LH 5.0 watch is little 
behind of some other relatively good time source ?
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather 5 leap second video

[Vlad]

My video is there:

https://youtu.be/2hMy3XoNah4

I am wandering, if anybody else noticed that LH 5.0 watch is little 
behind of some other relatively good time source ? On my video, you 
could see my own NIXIE (driving by its own GPS receiver), my hand watch 
(synched by WWVB), 'xclock' from my NTP machine and Internet time on the 
web.



To follow up my previous note about 'chronyd', Linux syslog has 
following:


Dec 31 19:00:00 dl145 chronyd[2555]: Adjusting system clock for leap 
second


And then its interesting log (tracking.log). Here we could see how 
'chronyd' did the alignment (see the last column)



==
   Date (UTC) Time IP Address   St   Freq ppm   Skew ppm Offset 
L Co  Offset sd Rem. corr.

==
2016-12-31 23:41:22 PPS0 1  9.021  0.006  5.523e-07 
+  1  9.074e-08 -3.469e-08
2016-12-31 23:41:38 PPS0 1  9.025  0.007  1.845e-07 
+  1  1.148e-07  8.597e-13
2016-12-31 23:41:54 PPS0 1  9.029  0.011  4.315e-07 
+  1  1.672e-07  5.534e-12
2016-12-31 23:42:10 PPS0 1  9.031  0.010  9.133e-08 
+  1  1.752e-07 -4.515e-11
2016-12-31 23:42:26 PPS0 1  9.031  0.008 -1.899e-08 
+  1  1.880e-07 -5.975e-08
2016-12-31 23:42:42 PPS0 1  9.031  0.006 -3.497e-08 
+  1  1.582e-07 -3.503e-08
2016-12-31 23:42:58 PPS0 1  9.031  0.005 -8.847e-08 
+  1  1.546e-07 -1.546e-10
2016-12-31 23:43:14 PPS0 1  9.030  0.004 -5.270e-08 
+  1  1.412e-07  5.457e-08
2016-12-31 23:43:30 PPS0 1  9.030  0.004 -2.788e-09 
+  1  1.294e-07  5.278e-08
2016-12-31 23:43:46 PPS0 1  9.030  0.003 -9.947e-08 
+  1  1.259e-07  3.943e-08
2016-12-31 23:44:02 PPS0 1  9.029  0.003 -9.814e-08 
+  1  1.183e-07  3.661e-08
2016-12-31 23:44:18 PPS0 1  9.029  0.003 -1.763e-07 
+  1  1.417e-07  3.234e-08
2016-12-31 23:44:34 PPS0 1  9.028  0.004 -2.060e-08 
+  1  1.496e-07  3.796e-09
2016-12-31 23:44:50 PPS0 1  9.028  0.004 -1.874e-07 
+  1  1.509e-07  2.163e-08
2016-12-31 23:45:06 PPS0 1  9.027  0.004 -4.819e-09 
+  1  1.636e-07  1.590e-08
2016-12-31 23:45:22 PPS0 1  9.025  0.009 -5.962e-07 
+  1  1.914e-07  1.875e-08
2016-12-31 23:45:38 PPS0 1  9.021  0.015 -4.350e-07 
+  1  2.020e-07 -9.867e-11
2016-12-31 23:45:54 PPS0 1  9.018  0.014 -4.419e-08 
+  1  2.224e-07 -1.104e-11
2016-12-31 23:46:10 PPS0 1  9.017  0.010 -5.512e-09 
+  1  2.091e-07  3.810e-08
2016-12-31 23:46:26 PPS0 1  9.017  0.008 -9.145e-08 
+  1  1.888e-07  3.752e-08
2016-12-31 23:46:42 PPS0 1  9.017  0.006  7.408e-08 
+  1  1.618e-07  7.016e-08
2016-12-31 23:46:58 PPS0 1  9.017  0.005 -9.794e-09 
+  1  1.552e-07 -4.002e-09

[skip]
2016-12-31 23:57:55 PPS0 1  8.797  0.019 -8.302e-08 
+  1  8.256e-08 -1.723e-08
2016-12-31 23:58:11 PPS0 1  8.796  0.013 -2.801e-08 
+  1  9.587e-08  3.075e-08
2016-12-31 23:58:27 PPS0 1  8.792  0.020 -5.538e-07 
+  1  2.202e-07  3.456e-08
2016-12-31 23:58:43 PPS0 1  8.787  0.015 -2.437e-07 
+  1  1.787e-07 -9.001e-11
2016-12-31 23:58:59 PPS0 1  8.785  0.012 -2.167e-07 
+  1  1.767e-07  2.221e-08
2016-12-31 23:59:15 PPS0 1  8.785  0.009  8.334e-09 
+  1  1.547e-07  2.342e-08
2016-12-31 23:59:31 PPS0 1  8.784  0.007 -1.067e-07 
+  1  1.319e-07  1.396e-08
2016-12-31 23:59:47 PPS0 1  8.782  0.007 -3.197e-07 
+  1  1.458e-07  4.703e-08
2017-01-01 00:00:03 PPS0 1  8.774  0.012 -7.315e-07 
N  1  1.374e-08 -9.954e-01
2017-01-01 00:00:19 PPS0 1  8.774  0.015  1.559e-06 
N  1  6.262e-08 -9.794e-01
2017-01-01 00:00:35 PPS0 1  8.775  0.021 -8.661e-07 
N  1  1.100e-07 -9.634e-01
2017-01-01 00:00:51 PPS0 1  8.780  0.042  8.435e-07 
N  1  1.764e-07 -9.473e-01
2017-01-01 00:01:07 PPS0 1  8.788  0.054 -1.003e-07 
N  1  2.240e-07 -9.313e-01
2017-01-01 00:01:23 PPS0 1  8.787  0.071 -1.125e-06 
N  1  5.314e-07 -9.153e-01
2017-01-01 00:01:39 PPS0 1  8.776  0.124 -8.750e-07 
N  1  2.290e-07 -8.992e-01
2017-01-01 00:01:55 PPS0 1  8.752  0.063 -2.786e-07 
N  1  1.987e-07 -8.832e-01
2017-01-01 00:02:11 PPS0 1  8.748  0.027 -2.084e-07 
N  1  1.676e-07 -8.672e-01
2017-01-01 00:02:27 PPS0 1  8.745  0.017 -3.240e-07 
N  1  1.397e-07 -8.512e-01
2017-01-01 00:02:43 PPS0 1  8.742  0.013 

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage [Was: Anyone (ideally in the UK) ...]

[Mark Spencer]

Hi:

A few quick comments.   

I've used a Variac for years at home to drop the line voltage for older 
equipment with linear power supplies that run hotter than I would like.   (My 
HP5370B's don't fall into that category for me but I can understand why this is 
an issue for some individuals.)

I've encountered situations where the line voltage has been deliberately 
lowered to entire buildings which has in turn caused issues for equipment I was 
responsible for. 

In dealing with line voltage issues in Canada I've found that readings from my 
handheld fluke DMM seem to be accepted at face value by the individuals I've 
been dealing with.   Data collected from UPS systems doesn't seem to be as well 
accepted.

Mark Spencer

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 4:14 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 1 Jan 2017 11:10, "Hal Murray"  wrote:
>> 
>> The nice thing about the APC units is that they are close to free if you
> are
>> already going to purchase a UPS.
>> 
>> I agree that something like the Dranetz 658 would be better, but a quick
> peek
>> at eBay shows prices far beyond what I'm willing to pay.
>> 
>>> What's the sample rate on your APC UPS?
>> 
>> I don't know what the internal sampling rate is.  The API is
>>  tell me the current voltage
>>  tell me the lowest voltage since the last time I asked
>>  tell me the highest voltage since the last time I asked
> 
> Em, not a lot. My handheld true RMS Tektronix can give me the average. (One
> assumes an average of RMS values).
> 
>> I have a hack that reads as fast as it can.  If nothing interesting has
>> happened, it adds a line to the log file every 5 minutes.
> 
> Again,  I think if attending presenting data for others,  one wants to
> avoid hacks like that. One can always post-proces to indicate the points of
> particular interest.
> My biggest problem is that it is not very practical to log data at the
> incoming point, which is just above my back door.  If I lived on my own,  I
> could set up equipment easily to do this. But sharing a house with a my
> wife and a large German Shepherd dog, it is not practical to do it with the
> equipment I have.
> 
> I think measuring voltage elsewhere would give someone more reason to
> question its accuracy.  In my case, measuring in my lab would almost
> certainly give a power supply voltage lower than that coming in.
> 
> Anyway,  short term I will use a variac to lower the voltage to test
> equipment with linear power supplies.  I am less concerned about equipment
> with switch mode supplies.
> 
> Dave.
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap-second capture on laptop

[Philip Gladstone]

I added this message to the Linux kernel near the end of 1993. There is 
a companion message that indicates the removal of the leap second -- but 
this has never been seen (except in testing!).


In retrospect, it isn't clear that jumping the clock by a second was the 
right decision, but, at the time, it was the "obvious" thing to do.


Philip

On 31/12/2016 20:00, Magnus Danielson wrote:

Fellow time-nuts,

While not fancy by any means, my laptop captured the leap-second being 
inserted by this message in the /var/log/syslog:
Jan  1 00:59:59 greytop kernel: [78458.839942] Clock: inserting leap 
second 23:59:60 UTC




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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Peter Vince]

Hmmm, yes, you're absolutely right.  Now I'm confused!

 Peter


On 1 January 2017 at 16:21, Deirdre O'Byrne  wrote:

> Didn't the DUT1 code change from -0.4s during the minute starting 23:58:00
> to +0.6s during the minute starting 23:59:00?
>
> On 1 January 2017 at 16:06, Peter Vince  wrote:
>
> > Hi Deirdre,
> >
> >  Well done getting such a clear recording!  Yes, the leap-second is
> > effectively inserted after the DUT1 code on MSF as you say, even though
> > that isn't crystal clear from the MSF spec document that David linked to.
> > The DUT1 codes refer to the "current" minute, whilst all the rest of the
> > time and date information refers to the next minute epoch!
> >
> >  Peter
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Deirdre O'Byrne]

Didn't the DUT1 code change from -0.4s during the minute starting 23:58:00
to +0.6s during the minute starting 23:59:00?

On 1 January 2017 at 16:06, Peter Vince  wrote:

> Hi Deirdre,
>
>  Well done getting such a clear recording!  Yes, the leap-second is
> effectively inserted after the DUT1 code on MSF as you say, even though
> that isn't crystal clear from the MSF spec document that David linked to.
> The DUT1 codes refer to the "current" minute, whilst all the rest of the
> time and date information refers to the next minute epoch!
>
>  Peter
>
>
> On 1 January 2017 at 15:01, Deirdre O'Byrne  wrote:
>
> > Your decoded timecode only has 60 data points for the 61-seconds of the
> > last minute of 2016 UTC, so it's impossible to say what your decoder did
> > with the leap second. (Also I think you have an error in your parity bit
> > for the time for midnight (bit 57B)).
> >
> > The long wave spectrum seems to show the same fourteen 0.1+0.9-second
> > pulses between 23:59:07 and 23:59:20 (inclusive), which tends to suggest
> > that the leap second was indeed inserted between the DUT1 code and the
> Year
> > code.
> >
> > Interestingly the long wave spectrum also shows DCF77 - a project for
> when
> > I get bored! :)
> >
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Peter Vince]

Hi Deirdre,

 Well done getting such a clear recording!  Yes, the leap-second is
effectively inserted after the DUT1 code on MSF as you say, even though
that isn't crystal clear from the MSF spec document that David linked to.
The DUT1 codes refer to the "current" minute, whilst all the rest of the
time and date information refers to the next minute epoch!

 Peter


On 1 January 2017 at 15:01, Deirdre O'Byrne  wrote:

> Your decoded timecode only has 60 data points for the 61-seconds of the
> last minute of 2016 UTC, so it's impossible to say what your decoder did
> with the leap second. (Also I think you have an error in your parity bit
> for the time for midnight (bit 57B)).
>
> The long wave spectrum seems to show the same fourteen 0.1+0.9-second
> pulses between 23:59:07 and 23:59:20 (inclusive), which tends to suggest
> that the leap second was indeed inserted between the DUT1 code and the Year
> code.
>
> Interestingly the long wave spectrum also shows DCF77 - a project for when
> I get bored! :)
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap-second capture on laptop

[Paul]

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 9:44 AM, David Malone  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 05:05:45AM -0800, Hal Murray wrote:
> > gha...@gmail.com said:
> > > No NTP was running.
>
> > What software told the kernel that there was going to be a leap second
> at the
> > end of the day?
>
> I guess it was part of systemd?
>

Unless you explicitly install ntp, systemd runs an SNTP-like client to keep
the time increasing (say across reboots) and notify the kernel of pending
leap seconds.  In that circumstance one would expect to see ...59:59 twice.


https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Mike Cook]

> Le 1 janv. 2017 à 15:13, David Malone  a écrit :
> 
> On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 12:54:19PM +, Adrian Godwin wrote:
>> I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :
> 
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746
> 
> If, as the article says, they had to record things manually from
> 00:30 to 05:15 GMT, then I guess it probably wan't leap second
> related?

That may or may not be so, but among the falseleapers that showed up in my 
servers peers there is one which throws a wobbler much later than 0h.
See < stratum1.ddns.net:8080/cgi-bin/erratic_leaps_2017.cgi > . I couldn’t get 
them posted here.

> 
>   David.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who 
have not got it. »
George Bernard Shaw

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[time-nuts] Lady Heather Question (Basic)

[Russ Ramirez]

I've been using Trimble VTS to sync a local server clock to my Thunderbolt.
I use the Meinberg NTP server as the time source for the other computers I
have. I like the Lady Heather program and what it has to offer, but it does
not seem to sync the time to the server clock the way the Timekeeper in VTS
does. What am I missing? Yes, I did RTFM :-)

Russ
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[time-nuts] Observations of NTP during the leap second

[Deirdre O'Byrne]

My setup is a raspberry pi running Linux 4.1.19 and ntpd version 4.2.6p5.
It's being fed a PPS signal from a GPS receiver, and also checks the time
against the ntp pool.

For the second starting at 23:59:58.0 UTC, NTP was reporting second number
0xdc12c4fe, and had its leap second flag set.

For the second starting at 23:59:59.0 UTC, NTP was reporting second number
0xdc12c4ff, and the leap second flag was *not* set!

For the second starting at 23:59:60.0 UTC, NTP was again reporting second
number 0xdc12c4ff, and the leap second flag was not set.

For the second starting at 00:00:00.0 UTC, NTP was reporting second number
0xdc12c500, and the leap second flag was not set.

I would have thought NTP would have the leap second flag set at least until
23:59:60.0.
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[time-nuts] Devices, apps and programs which properly display the leap second (e.g. 23:59:60 UTC)

[Neal McBurnett]

For future reference (since I used the wrong email address when posting this 
yesterday...):

I'd love to share the leap second with my friends.  What are some good, easy 
devices, apps and software which make for a good demo?  I'd love to have 
several of them, on android, iphone, linux, windows, the web, and in hardware 
form if any watches or other timepieces do it right.

Cheers,

Neal McBurnett http://neal.mcburnett.org/
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[time-nuts] GPS receivers and the Leap Second

[Miguel Barbosa Gonçalves]

Hi!

In my network I have 2 Meinberg M200 clocks and 4 other GPS receivers (1
Sure GPS Evaluation board, 2 Garmin 18 LVC and a uBlox EVK-6N). I
recorded the GPS timecode strings across 00:00 UTC to see how they would
react to the leap second:

Sure GPS
timecode="$GPGGA,235955.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6016,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*4E",
timecode="$GPGGA,235956.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6016,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*4D",
timecode="$GPGGA,235957.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*4F",
timecode="$GPGGA,235958.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*40",
timecode="$GPGGA,235959.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*41",
timecode="$GPGGA,235959.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*41",
timecode="$GPGGA,00.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*40",
timecode="$GPGGA,01.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*41",
timecode="$GPGGA,02.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.11,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*42",
timecode="$GPGGA,03.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,6,1.15,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*46",
timecode="$GPGGA,04.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,6,1.15,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*41",
timecode="$GPGGA,05.000,4055.2138,N,00829.6015,W,2,7,1.07,267.3,M,51.2,M,,*42",

Meinberg #1
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:55; +00:00; A  ; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:56; +00:00; A  ; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:57; +00:00; A  ; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:58; +00:00; A  ; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:59; +00:00; A  ; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:60; +00:00;   L; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:00; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:01; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:02; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:03; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:04; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:05; +00:00;; 40.9204N   8.4936W
 343m\x03",

Meinberg #2
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:55; +00:00; A  ; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:56; +00:00; A  ; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:57; +00:00; A  ; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:58; +00:00; A  ; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:59; +00:00; A  ; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0231.12.16; 6; 23:59:60; +00:00;   L; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:00; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:01; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:02; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:03; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:04; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",
timecode="\x0201.01.17; 7; 00:00:05; +00:00;; 40.9205N   8.4936W
 337m\x03",

uBlox EVK-6N
timecode="$GPGGA,235955.00,4055.21472,N,00829.59411,W,1,07,1.11,251.5,M,49.9,M,,*4F",
timecode="$GPGGA,235956.00,4055.21472,N,00829.59416,W,1,07,1.11,251.7,M,49.9,M,,*49",
timecode="$GPGGA,235957.00,4055.21472,N,00829.59420,W,1,07,1.11,251.8,M,49.9,M,,*42",
timecode="$GPGGA,235958.00,4055.21474,N,00829.59424,W,1,08,1.11,252.1,M,49.9,M,,*4A",
timecode="$GPGGA,235959.00,4055.21475,N,00829.59429,W,1,08,1.11,252.3,M,49.9,M,,*45",
timecode="$GPGGA,235960.00,4055.21477,N,00829.59433,W,1,08,1.11,252.6,M,49.9,M,,*43",
timecode="$GPGGA,235960.00,4055.21477,N,00829.59433,W,1,08,1.11,252.6,M,49.9,M,,*43",
timecode="$GPGGA,01.00,4055.21479,N,00829.59440,W,1,08,1.11,253.0,M,49.9,M,,*44",
timecode="$GPGGA,02.00,4055.21481,N,00829.59443,W,1,08,1.11,253.3,M,49.9,M,,*40",
timecode="$GPGGA,03.00,4055.21482,N,00829.59447,W,1,08,1.11,253.6,M,49.9,M,,*43",
timecode="$GPGGA,04.00,4055.21484,N,00829.59451,W,1,08,1.11,253.8,M,49.9,M,,*4B",
timecode="$GPGGA,05.00,4055.21485,N,00829.59454,W,1,08,1.11,254.1,M,49.9,M,,*40",

Garmin 18 LVC #1
timecode="$GPGGA,235955,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.8,M,51.7,M,,*5C",
timecode="$GPGGA,235956,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.8,M,51.7,M,,*5F",
timecode="$GPGGA,235957,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.5,M,51.7,M,,*53",
timecode="$GPGGA,235958,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.5,M,51.7,M,,*5C",
timecode="$GPGGA,235959,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.5,M,51.7,M,,*5D",
timecode="$GPGGA,235959,4055.2362,N,00829.5576,W,2,07,1.2,248.5,M,51.7,M,,*5D",

Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Deirdre O'Byrne]

Your decoded timecode only has 60 data points for the 61-seconds of the
last minute of 2016 UTC, so it's impossible to say what your decoder did
with the leap second. (Also I think you have an error in your parity bit
for the time for midnight (bit 57B)).

The long wave spectrum seems to show the same fourteen 0.1+0.9-second
pulses between 23:59:07 and 23:59:20 (inclusive), which tends to suggest
that the leap second was indeed inserted between the DUT1 code and the Year
code.

Interestingly the long wave spectrum also shows DCF77 - a project for when
I get bored! :)


On 1 January 2017 at 12:02, David Malone  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 02:28:23AM +, Deirdre O'Byrne wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpBxB2Yqh-U
>
> Nice.
>
> > Starting at 23:58:00 -
> > A 1000101101001011000111010001110110010110
> > B 10001000
> >
> > Starting at 23:59:00 -
> > A 1101111010110
> > B 11100
>
> My decoder seemed to give something like this:
>
> A: 000101101001011000111010001110110010110
> B: 0001000
> Raw: 31/12/2016 23:59 Sat -400 No-DST
> Ctime: Sat Dec 31 23:59:01 2016
>
> A: 0001011110100010110
> B: 11000111000
> Raw: 1/1/2017 0:01 Sun 600 No-DST
> Ctime: Sun Jan  1 00:01:01 2017
>
> Which shows it switching at the right time. There's a long wave spectrum
> at:
>
> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/leap2016/leap2017010100.png
>
> or an animated verion at:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_DQZN88HQ
>
> I think the time codes relate transmitted relates to the minute following
> the one in which they are transmitted according to:
>
> http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/MSF_Time_Date_Code.pdf
>
> Could that explain what you saw?
>
> David.
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Re: [time-nuts] Leapsecond on Apple iOS

[fro75uk--- via time-nuts]

I was watching the event on an Apple iPad with an app that was 
displaying the ntp time together with the difference from Apple time. At 
the leap second, the ntp app showed 23:59:60 and when I noticed (seconds 
later, as it coincided with the glasses chinking and the fireworks of 
New Year), Apple time was one second out.   Apple time remained 1 second 
out at least until I went to bed c 0100.


Somewhere around 00:15, I used the app to sync against my GPS-derived 
Raspberry Pi ntp (actually NTPsec) and that also showed Apple time to be 
1 second out.


When I next looked around 09:00, the Apple iPad time had corrected 
itself, no difference from ntp.


I've not looked further, not worked out how to examine iPad logs but my 
theory post-celebrating last night was that the iPad was not using ntp 
"properly" but perhaps just corrects the time occasionally perhaps 
hourly.   Obviously that is useful for saving battery oomph and 
expensive GSM bandwidth, so understandable.


All good clean fun.

Garry



Fellow time-nuts,

Several friends observed that their Apple devices, laptop and phones,
did not handle the leap second timely. One recorded the UTC+1h time with
the sequence

00:59:57
00:59:58
00:59:59
01:00:00
01:00:01
01:00:01 <- leap second inserted
01:00:02
01:00:03

The other dug up that Cocoa claims that using NTP prohibits it from
implementing it correctly, which doesn't match my laptops observation
being fed only from NTP.

Anyone else saw something similar?

The hurdles of precision time in a POSIX-damaged world...

Cheers,
Magnus


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[time-nuts] Reproducibility of position data from multiple surveys of HP 58503A GPS receiver

[Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd]

I put my HP 58503A into an infinite loop where

1) Forced GPS receiver to do a survey (GPS:POS:SURVEY ONCE)
2) Waited until survey was complete (GPS:POS:HOLD? returns 1)  This takes about 
2 hour.

3) Recorded date (SYST:DATE?), time (SYST:TIME?) and location (GPS:POS?)

For about 4 hours before the leap second, I stopped this, so the clock was right 
at the time of the leap second. Then I restarted some time after midnight.


The actual data file is here

http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/HP-58503A/gps.log

which is being updated whenever a survey is complete, and new data collected - 
about once every 2 hours.


A plot of the height from the first 19 data points is here.

http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/HP-58503A/gps-height.pdf

Unlike hte log, this is not being updated dynamically - I should have used 
another machine which has gnuplot on it for that.


Anyway, based on the first 19 data points, the antenna height appears to be 
anywhere from 40 to 48.5 m. I'm pretty sure it is not bouncing up and down 8.5 
metres! The latitude and longitude move too. I've not converted them into 
metres, so I don't know how much they represent.


The antenna is about 3.5 m above ground level, mounted to the side of a garage, 
which is higher. I could push it another 2 m or so by mounting it on the garage, 
but not without drilling holes in the garage which will not exactly make the XYL 
happy, although I guess if I do it when she is not looking, its a bit late to 
moan then!


I was thinking of telling the receiver the location is an "average" of the data 
points. Some thought would need to be given to averaging, although I would have 
thought in my latitude (51 deg, 39' N), and distance from the meridian (0 deg, 
41' E), a simple mean would not be a bad figure. But I stand to be corrected.


--
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK.
Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.
http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please)
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap-second capture on laptop

[David Malone]

On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 05:05:45AM -0800, Hal Murray wrote:
> gha...@gmail.com said:
> > No NTP was running. 

> What software told the kernel that there was going to be a leap second at the 
> end of the day?

I guess it was part of systemd?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-timesyncd

David.
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second Smear Monitoring

[Adrian Godwin]

What's the best way to get a test stream for leap seconds?

Would it be feasible to have a small set of NTP servers that insert a leap
second every other day and remove it alternately?


On 31 Dec 2016 8:41 p.m., "Magnus Danielson" 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thought I just remind people that an alternative is to provide UT1 time,
> as Judah Levine had been doing on a NIST NTP server as a test of concept.
>
> Then again, do regular testing of systems to see how they handle leap
> seconds and fix things until it works is also a quite workable solution.
> That's what we done for our products and not been able to detect any
> issues with leap seconds per se.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 12/31/2016 09:34 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>
>> Scott -- Thanks very much for doing this, and doing it live.
>>
>> List -- For some background, see these two papers by Martin Burnicki:
>>
>> https://www.meinberg.de/download/burnicki/ntp_leap_smearing_
>> test_results.pdf
>>
>> https://www.meinbergglobal.com/download/burnicki/Leap%20Seco
>> nd%20Smearing%20With%20NTP.pdf
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Scott Newell" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 9:53 AM
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Leap Second Smear Monitoring
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to watch the google NTP server leap second smear. This
>>> page should update once/minute with my latest data.
>>>
>>> http://www.n5tnl.com/time/leap_2016/index.html
>>>
>>> Sorry about the coarse resolution--I've set another monitor station
>>> to poll more often and I'll try and append that graph shortly.
>>>
>>> --
>>> newell  N5TNL
>>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] A Leap Second is coming

[dikshie]

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Wannes Sels  wrote:
> Here's mine on my Casio F-91W
> http://imgur.com/yjbhXh6
>


NICT Japan has a photo:
https://twitter.com/NICT_Publicity/status/815378497484955652


Best Regards,

Dikshie



> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 4:09 AM Nick Sayer via time-nuts 
> wrote:
>
>> Here's what I got:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/nGMFzhNFrb4
>>
>> It worked as I expected. 4:00:00 PM was two seconds long.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[David Malone]

On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 12:54:19PM +, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746

If, as the article says, they had to record things manually from
00:30 to 05:15 GMT, then I guess it probably wan't leap second
related?

David.
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Insertion times that are convenient for some could be a major pain for others. 
There is no 
single “good” time to insert a leap second. You might argue that doing it while 
the financial 
markets are closed is a good idea. That sort of rules out the middle of the 
week. You also
could argue that you do it when everybody is on hand to fix things. That sort 
of rules out
weekends. With two simple “rules”, the entire week has been crossed off the 
list ….

If you go back in the archives, you will find significant discussion going on 
about dropping
leap seconds altogether. That would indeed eliminate the need to schedule them. 
It also 
would eventually result in some odd adjustments to local time. 


Bob

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> If so, they should think about adding the leap second on the night of the 2nd 
> wednesday of January, or such a time when things are quieter around the world.
> 
> Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world, 
> or are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in 
> the UK for half of Jan 1st?
> 
> On 2/01/2017, at 1:54 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :
>> 
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Hal Murray]

time-nuts@febo.com said:
> Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world,
> or are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in
> the UK for half of Jan 1st? 

It's added at the end of the last day of a month, UTC.

That makes if 4PM local time in California, a convenient time for watching 
toys.
 
Leap seconds at the end of June could happen at inconvenient local times.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage [Was: Anyone (ideally in the UK) ...]

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 1 Jan 2017 11:10, "Hal Murray"  wrote:
>
> The nice thing about the APC units is that they are close to free if you
are
> already going to purchase a UPS.
>
> I agree that something like the Dranetz 658 would be better, but a quick
peek
> at eBay shows prices far beyond what I'm willing to pay.
>
> > What's the sample rate on your APC UPS?
>
> I don't know what the internal sampling rate is.  The API is
>   tell me the current voltage
>   tell me the lowest voltage since the last time I asked
>   tell me the highest voltage since the last time I asked

Em, not a lot. My handheld true RMS Tektronix can give me the average. (One
assumes an average of RMS values).

> I have a hack that reads as fast as it can.  If nothing interesting has
> happened, it adds a line to the log file every 5 minutes.

Again,  I think if attending presenting data for others,  one wants to
avoid hacks like that. One can always post-proces to indicate the points of
particular interest.
My biggest problem is that it is not very practical to log data at the
incoming point, which is just above my back door.  If I lived on my own,  I
could set up equipment easily to do this. But sharing a house with a my
wife and a large German Shepherd dog, it is not practical to do it with the
equipment I have.

I think measuring voltage elsewhere would give someone more reason to
question its accuracy.  In my case, measuring in my lab would almost
certainly give a power supply voltage lower than that coming in.

Anyway,  short term I will use a variac to lower the voltage to test
equipment with linear power supplies.  I am less concerned about equipment
with switch mode supplies.

Dave.
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Re: [time-nuts] new year crashes

[Andy ZL3AG via time-nuts]

If so, they should think about adding the leap second on the night of the 2nd 
wednesday of January, or such a time when things are quieter around the world.

Do they add the leap second at the same moment in time throughout the world, or 
are the clocks here in NZ running 13 hours and 1 second ahead of those in the 
UK for half of Jan 1st?

On 2/01/2017, at 1:54 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:

> I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap-second capture on laptop

[Hal Murray]

gha...@gmail.com said:
> No NTP was running. 

What software told the kernel that there was going to be a leap second at the 
end of the day?


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] new year crashes

[Adrian Godwin]

I wonder if someone wasn't ready for their extra second :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38482746
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[David Malone]

On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 02:28:23AM +, Deirdre O'Byrne wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpBxB2Yqh-U

Nice.

> Starting at 23:58:00 -
> A 1000101101001011000111010001110110010110
> B 10001000
> 
> Starting at 23:59:00 -
> A 1101111010110
> B 11100

My decoder seemed to give something like this:

A: 000101101001011000111010001110110010110
B: 0001000
Raw: 31/12/2016 23:59 Sat -400 No-DST 
Ctime: Sat Dec 31 23:59:01 2016

A: 0001011110100010110
B: 11000111000
Raw: 1/1/2017 0:01 Sun 600 No-DST 
Ctime: Sun Jan  1 00:01:01 2017

Which shows it switching at the right time. There's a long wave spectrum
at:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/leap2016/leap2017010100.png

or an animated verion at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_DQZN88HQ

I think the time codes relate transmitted relates to the minute following
the one in which they are transmitted according to:

http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/MSF_Time_Date_Code.pdf

Could that explain what you saw?

David.
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage [Was: Anyone (ideally in the UK) ...]

[Hal Murray]

The nice thing about the APC units is that they are close to free if you are 
already going to purchase a UPS.

I agree that something like the Dranetz 658 would be better, but a quick peek 
at eBay shows prices far beyond what I'm willing to pay.

> What's the sample rate on your APC UPS?

I don't know what the internal sampling rate is.  The API is
  tell me the current voltage
  tell me the lowest voltage since the last time I asked
  tell me the highest voltage since the last time I asked

I think I decided it's an 8 bit ADC so the resolution is far from wonderful.  
(The step size on a couple of handy readings in 0.7 volts.  8 bits gives a 
full scale of 180 volts.))

I have a hack that reads as fast as it can.  If nothing interesting has 
happened, it adds a line to the log file every 5 minutes.  If the min or max 
voltage has change enough, it logs a line now.  That gives me reasonably 
accurate timing on short glitches without cluttering up the log file with 
noise.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage [Was: Anyone (ideally in the UK) ...]

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 1 Jan 2017 05:07, "Chris Albertson"  wrote:
>
> Just a comment for anyone who wants to log line voltage v. time.   If
> you have an APC "Smart UPS" battery backup unit these will log voltage
> and frequency to a file.

If the information is for your own use only, that is probably fine.  But if
you intend challenging the electricity supply company over it, I would use
a laboratory multimeter with a valid calibration certificate. It will give
your measurements far more credibility than the data from a UPS.

I would suggest that a 5.5 digit laboratory multimeter with a current
certificate from Keysight would be better than an 8.5 digit 3458A that is
out of the calibration period by a day, despite the latter having lower
uncertainty.

The point where you measure the voltage is probably important too.
Obviously wire resistance in a ring main reduces the voltage, so there's
not much point reporting that the voltage is low unless measured at the
point of the incoming supply. I suspect that it is better to measure there
whatever ones cause  for complete is. Possibly a motor run internally could
act as a generator and push the supply above the incoming voltage.

I don't know what (if any) averaging should be done.  Does one sample every
cycle?  I would probably set my 3457A  to sample 10 power line cycles (200
ms) here in the UK.  I think collecting data every cycle would be a bit
excessive, but maybe not.  One can always post process the data later to do
some averaging.

What's the sample rate on your APC UPS?

Dave
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather 5 leap second video

[Esa Heikkinen]

Hi!

Trimble thunderbolt and direct on-screen capture with 1 fps from Lady 
Heather 5 running on Windows XP.


23:59:59 --> 00:00:60 --> 00:00:00

https://youtu.be/pJt8bHAo_yU


It doesn't do it beautifully anymore, like older version did:

https://youtu.be/DbvMZikqtI4

--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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[time-nuts] strange leap second failures

[Mike Cook]

Hi,
   I guess you have all seen some servers that didn’t make it. I detected 6 
including one at the paris observatory .
Some were corrected or corrected themselves and some just stopped serving. 



There must be hundreds out there :-(


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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second results

[Ben]

I saw it too, here in UTC+1 it went to 01:00:60. But the logging was correct.

23:59:59  167.06974e-09 0.0180810.611410
36.720154   5
23:59:60  176.99192e-09 -0.008905   0.611410
36.720184   5
00:00:00  186.85744e-09 -0.000555   0.611410
36.727600   5






> On 1 Jan 2017, at 02:50, Mark Sims  wrote:
> 
> I ran Heather on 9 different receivers.  Only three did the leap-second 
> "right" with a time of 23:59:60 (which unfortunately shows up on the screen 
> as 00:00:60)... long story...  sorry...  

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