Re: [time-nuts] Nortel NTGS and LH 5

[Bryan _]

Thanks Mark, /ro=0  did the trick. It did leave a "r" at the end of the 
corrected date, but after a restart of LH it is now just displaying the date. 
Thanks again.


-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Mark Sims 

Sent: February 23, 2017 8:48 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Nortel NTGS and LH 5

Lady Heather has detected a GPS week rollover event... 10 seconds of 
consecutive years less than 2016.  When this happens Heather adds 1024 weeks to 
the receiver date until it is past 2016.   This can happen when Heather is 
connected to a receiver that is starting up and sending invalid dates or a 
receiver with rollover problems.  It can also happen with a receiver that reset 
or glitched while Heather was running.  You can force the rollover offset with 
the /ro=seconds_to_add command  /ro=0 will effectively disable rollover 
compensation.

---

>  Perhaps something just went wonky in my setup but just noticed that the date 
> that LH 5 (TSIP) is displaying with my Nortel is very wrong. Any idea how to 
> correct. Could have happened after I did a cold reset a couple weeks ago.

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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the heads up.  That seems to have done the trick!  If you don't 
mind, I'm sending you a query about something else off-list.
Bob 
-
AE6RV.com

GFS GPSDO list:
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info

  From: Andrew Rodland 
 To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement  
 Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 12:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question
   
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> Thanks, John.  That will certainly get it to work as I expect it to.  I doubt 
> I'm the only one who's lost a dataset due to being distracted and hitting the 
> enter key to clear the dialog box.
>
> Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.

This, at least, is easily fixed; use "winetricks gdiplus" to replace
Wine's GDI+ implementation with Microsoft's (the native DLL). Then all
the stuff that didn't draw before will work just fine. It does have a
few other little issues, but on the whole it works remarkably well for
me.


   
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Re: [time-nuts] My TICC came in the mail yesterday

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Hi Andrew --

There seems to be more than a little magic involved in getting sane 
three-corner measurements.  I've gotten best results when the run is 
long enough to have many data points per tau, and also that results when 
you're noise limited tend to go imaginary.  Finally, I think things work 
best when the three sources have similar noise processes, e.g., looking 
at 3x OCXO or 3x Rb or whatever.


I'd love any of the experts to jump in on this, as I've not done much 
beyond basic experiments, and I don't have the maths to comprehend the 
subtleties.


John

On 02/24/2017 12:59 PM, Andrew Rodland wrote:

Which means, after a bit of scrounging for some BNC to SMA adapters, I
have some plots worth using (more or less) of my clock!

Background info: my clock's main purpose is to be a GPS-disciplined
NTP server on an Arduino Due clone board. As such, accuracy beyond
tens to hundreds of microseconds isn't really relevant. But for purely
time-nut reasons, it has an Rb oscillator (cheap surplus X72), and for
similar reasons it has a PPS output generated by the CPU timer. I
didn't hack the Due apart to replace the crystal, so the CPU clock
(84MHz) is asynchronous from the Rb, which has some limitations, but
also introduces a nice little bit of dither

The TICC is set up with 10MHz from a Spectracom NetClock, chA from a
(probably insufficiently thermally stabilized) LTE-Lite, and chB from
my clock. Output is in Timelab mode.

A representative bit of the phase plot: http://i.imgur.com/cRXv9ia.png

You can see all the quantization noise on my clock, but also that in
the ~100s region, it does better than the LTE-Lite. You can also see
the nice smooth (at short time) plot of the LTE-Lite which gives me
some good faith in the TICC.

ADEV plot so far: http://i.imgur.com/DLb15rt.png

Timelab loses the thread a little bit and comes up with negative
computed deviations for my clock for some tau. Not sure how much of
that is due to instrument limitations, and how much is due to the
noise being not-really-independent, since all three clocks are GPS
receivers, with rather nearby antennas. Still, more than I've ever
seen before!

Andrew
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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[Michael Wouters]

I don't think it is transported under power - it is run as a frequency
reference, not a time reference so there's no need to keep it running.
Optical clocks are difficult to keep running continuously, 60% ( best done
so far, if my memory can be trusted) uptime is considered to be very good.
So that means it's not very useful for time comparisons.

Cheers
Michael

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 at 1:00 am, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> > On Feb 24, 2017, at 5:02 AM, Michael Wouters 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I agree with their premise that to be useful you need transportable
> clocks. I’m not quite sure
> >> that something the size (and weight) of a pickup truck is really
> transportable. Yes one can
> >> move it around (unlike a small mountain)  …. Transporting something
> like that from here to
> >> Europe and back *would* make the charges FedEx comes up with on a  40Kg
> box look
> >> cheap though :)
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > I suspect that it's really only meant to be driven around to labs in
> > Europe with optical clocks, like LNE-SYRTE and NPL.
> > I think that you would repack it if you were shipping it overseas.
> >
> > My one experience of something remotely like this was delivery of our
> > frequency comb (two full-height 19 inch racks plus the laser on a
> > large breadboard) from Germany to Australia. It was all working the
> > same day it was unpacked. But no UHV system of course.
>
> It’s the things like keeping vacuum systems running that while it’s
> possible, is not trivial.
> I sort of wonder if “transportation” involves one person driving the truck
> and two people
> riding in back as “minders” for all the gear.
>
> This is indeed cool stuff. Their clock is amazing. I’d love to have one.
> It’s still a massive
> piece of gear.
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > The Chinese one is a bit simpler: it's a single-ion Paul trap, rather
> > than a lattice clock. Probably less control electronics are needed
> > too, so maybe it's a bit more mobile.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Michael
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5328A + NI GPIB-ENET/1000

[Scott McGrath]

The issue with talk-only is you don't have remote control of instrument 
settings hence talk only

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 11:47 AM, James Peroulas  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions Scott(s)!
> 
> It ended up being something simple. With no signal coming into the 5328A,
> it did not produce any output over GPIB. I would have expected a continuous
> readout of 0Hz. Once I applied a signal, a simple GPIB "read" request
> returned the measurements I needed. No need to send any commands. This is
> in talk-only mode.
> 
> James
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[time-nuts] My TICC came in the mail yesterday

[Andrew Rodland]

Which means, after a bit of scrounging for some BNC to SMA adapters, I
have some plots worth using (more or less) of my clock!

Background info: my clock's main purpose is to be a GPS-disciplined
NTP server on an Arduino Due clone board. As such, accuracy beyond
tens to hundreds of microseconds isn't really relevant. But for purely
time-nut reasons, it has an Rb oscillator (cheap surplus X72), and for
similar reasons it has a PPS output generated by the CPU timer. I
didn't hack the Due apart to replace the crystal, so the CPU clock
(84MHz) is asynchronous from the Rb, which has some limitations, but
also introduces a nice little bit of dither

The TICC is set up with 10MHz from a Spectracom NetClock, chA from a
(probably insufficiently thermally stabilized) LTE-Lite, and chB from
my clock. Output is in Timelab mode.

A representative bit of the phase plot: http://i.imgur.com/cRXv9ia.png

You can see all the quantization noise on my clock, but also that in
the ~100s region, it does better than the LTE-Lite. You can also see
the nice smooth (at short time) plot of the LTE-Lite which gives me
some good faith in the TICC.

ADEV plot so far: http://i.imgur.com/DLb15rt.png

Timelab loses the thread a little bit and comes up with negative
computed deviations for my clock for some tau. Not sure how much of
that is due to instrument limitations, and how much is due to the
noise being not-really-independent, since all three clocks are GPS
receivers, with rather nearby antennas. Still, more than I've ever
seen before!

Andrew
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5328A + NI GPIB-ENET/1000

[James Peroulas]

Thanks for the suggestions Scott(s)!

It ended up being something simple. With no signal coming into the 5328A,
it did not produce any output over GPIB. I would have expected a continuous
readout of 0Hz. Once I applied a signal, a simple GPIB "read" request
returned the measurements I needed. No need to send any commands. This is
in talk-only mode.

James
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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[jimlux]

On 2/23/17 10:49 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <03067739-6291-4e37-831c-875022dbd...@n1k.org>, Bob Camp writes:


I agree with their premise that to be useful you need transportable clocks. I’m 
not quite sure
that something the size (and weight) of a pickup truck is really transportable. 
Yes one can
move it around (unlike a small mountain)  …. Transporting something like that 
from here to
Europe and back *would* make the charges FedEx comes up with on a  40Kg box look
cheap though :)


Buy a shipping container with cooling, set the thermostat for
something like +10C, install a ton of good VRLA lead acids, install
suitable telemetry and hand it over the MAERSK, with a manifest
which says "near metacenter, power critical" ?

Wouldn't be that expensive, and you'd know it is pretty close to MSL all along.

It's about $2000 to ship a 20 foot long container (TEU) across the 
Pacific from the far east to Los Angeles.  If power is required for the 
cooling, it might be more.

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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[Bob Camp]

Hi

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 5:02 AM, Michael Wouters  
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I agree with their premise that to be useful you need transportable clocks. 
>> I’m not quite sure
>> that something the size (and weight) of a pickup truck is really 
>> transportable. Yes one can
>> move it around (unlike a small mountain)  …. Transporting something like 
>> that from here to
>> Europe and back *would* make the charges FedEx comes up with on a  40Kg box 
>> look
>> cheap though :)
>> 
>> Bob
> 
> I suspect that it's really only meant to be driven around to labs in
> Europe with optical clocks, like LNE-SYRTE and NPL.
> I think that you would repack it if you were shipping it overseas.
> 
> My one experience of something remotely like this was delivery of our
> frequency comb (two full-height 19 inch racks plus the laser on a
> large breadboard) from Germany to Australia. It was all working the
> same day it was unpacked. But no UHV system of course.

It’s the things like keeping vacuum systems running that while it’s possible, 
is not trivial. 
I sort of wonder if “transportation” involves one person driving the truck and 
two people
riding in back as “minders” for all the gear.

This is indeed cool stuff. Their clock is amazing. I’d love to have one. It’s 
still a massive
piece of gear. 

Bob

> 
> The Chinese one is a bit simpler: it's a single-ion Paul trap, rather
> than a lattice clock. Probably less control electronics are needed
> too, so maybe it's a bit more mobile.
> 
> Cheers
> Michael
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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[Michael Wouters]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 at 9:00 am, Poul-Henning Kamp 
wrote:

> Have we talked about this yet ?
>
> https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.06183
>
> https://arxiv.org/abs/1607.03731
>
>
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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>
There's a story over at Physics World that compares both systems:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2017/feb/20/optical-clocks-hit-the-road

Cheers
Michael
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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[Michael Wouters]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I agree with their premise that to be useful you need transportable clocks. 
> I’m not quite sure
> that something the size (and weight) of a pickup truck is really 
> transportable. Yes one can
> move it around (unlike a small mountain)  …. Transporting something like that 
> from here to
> Europe and back *would* make the charges FedEx comes up with on a  40Kg box 
> look
> cheap though :)
>
> Bob

I suspect that it's really only meant to be driven around to labs in
Europe with optical clocks, like LNE-SYRTE and NPL.
I think that you would repack it if you were shipping it overseas.

My one experience of something remotely like this was delivery of our
frequency comb (two full-height 19 inch racks plus the laser on a
large breadboard) from Germany to Australia. It was all working the
same day it was unpacked. But no UHV system of course.

The Chinese one is a bit simpler: it's a single-ion Paul trap, rather
than a lattice clock. Probably less control electronics are needed
too, so maybe it's a bit more mobile.

Cheers
Michael
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Andrew Rodland]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> Thanks, John.  That will certainly get it to work as I expect it to.  I doubt 
> I'm the only one who's lost a dataset due to being distracted and hitting the 
> enter key to clear the dialog box.
>
> Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.

This, at least, is easily fixed; use "winetricks gdiplus" to replace
Wine's GDI+ implementation with Microsoft's (the native DLL). Then all
the stuff that didn't draw before will work just fine. It does have a
few other little issues, but on the whole it works remarkably well for
me.
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Re: [time-nuts] Coming to a drive-way near you: Optical Lattice clocks

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <03067739-6291-4e37-831c-875022dbd...@n1k.org>, Bob Camp writes:

>I agree with their premise that to be useful you need transportable clocks. 
>I’m not quite sure
>that something the size (and weight) of a pickup truck is really 
>transportable. Yes one can 
>move it around (unlike a small mountain)  …. Transporting something like that 
>from here to 
>Europe and back *would* make the charges FedEx comes up with on a  40Kg box 
>look 
>cheap though :)

Buy a shipping container with cooling, set the thermostat for
something like +10C, install a ton of good VRLA lead acids, install
suitable telemetry and hand it over the MAERSK, with a manifest
which says "near metacenter, power critical" ?

Wouldn't be that expensive, and you'd know it is pretty close to MSL all along.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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