Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On 3 January 2018 at 04:09, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> I asked Bill for clarification and here's some of what he shared:
>
> > Tom:
> >
> > I’m glad that the word is getting out that Stable32 is now freely
> available.
>
>
> > My donation to the IEEE UFFC included all source code, and it is up to
> them
> > to decide whether and how to make it available.  That has not yet been
> done.
>
>
Great news.


> > My motivation was to see that it lived at least in its present form
> without
> > my having to remain involved.


That's really good of Bill.

I will continue to support the commercial
> > version for a year more, but not the free one.
>
> > The IEEE UFFC Stable32 distribution is  released under a form of the “MIT
> > License” which is as free as can be.  That was made possible last year by
> > Scientific Endeavors Corporation who agreed to end my obligations under a
> > royalty payment agreement for the GraphiC scientific plotting functions
> that
> > Stable32 uses.  No other such issues exist for the Stable32
> distribution, so
> > it became possible to make it free.
>
>
Nice of Scientific Endeavors Corporation.


> > The Stable32 source code is organized into two basic parts, the
> top-level Windows
> > user interface and a DLL that contains the core analysis functionality.
> It is
> > likely that the latter is the more valuable for future versions and
> other purposes.
> > For example, I have ported that Windows FrequenC.dll (which is
> distributed with
> > Stable32) to Linux as a libfrequenc.so shared object library that can be
> used by
> > GCC/G++.  I have also created a wrapper function for that so it can be
> used with
> > Python.  I hope to make these (and the critical FrequenC function
> documentation)
> > available soon.
>
>
Several technologies come to my mind, that could give a multi-platform
version.

1) WxWidgits in C++

2) Qt in C++

3) Mathplotlib in Python.

4) GNUplot

5) Command line version for UNIX and UNIX-like systems.

> I hope this explains things a bit.  The Stable32 distribution package is
> now freely
> > available for all to use.  The Stable32 source code is under the control
> of the
> > IEEE UFFC AdCom.  I plan to make the core Stable32  FrequenC Library
> documentation
> > and functionality available for Windows, Linux and Python.
>

I would not be surprised if Poul-Henning Kamp would be interested in
porting to FreeBSD too.

Solaris is pretty much dying since Oracle bought Sun, so there are
arguments for not bothering with a Solaris port. But from my experience,
testing software on multiple platforms often highlights bugs that exist in
all platforms, but have not been discovered. I lost count of the number of
hours I spent porting Sagemath to Solaris, but a number of bugs were
discovered by me whilst porting to the Solaris. Those bugs existed on
Linux, but had just not manifested themselves.



> > Best regards,
> > Bill Riley
>
> My comments:
>
> 1) I use both Stable32 and TimeLab equally; and now that Stable32 is free,
> everyone can now enjoy both of them too. They overlap somewhat, but each
> has its own set of strengths and target audience. Both show evolutionary
> bloat by now but for the small subset of features one typically uses the
> learning curve is not high. Each includes a comprehensive user guide. Both
> are native Windows apps, and run under emulation on Unix.
>

I assume, but perhaps are mistaken, you mean Linux here. Strictly speaking,
a system is not UNIX unless certified by The Open Group. Linux is certainty
not UNIX, and in several cases the code breaks UNIX compatibility. For
example, on Linux, the df command reports sizes in kb, but for UNIX system
it is 512 byte blocks. I don't know, but I suspect FreeBSD conforms to the
UNIX standard more than Linux. Also on Linux, people tend to use tools like
'which'

drkirkby@hawk:~$ which ls
/usr/bin/ls

to find the path to an executable. But 'which' is not part of the UNIX
standard, so may not be available on a UNIX system.  But the following
gives the same information

drkirkby@hawk:~$ command -v ls
/usr/bin/ls

but works on UNIX systems in addition to Linux systems.

Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message 
, "Dr. 
David Kirkby" writes:

>I assume, but perhaps are mistaken, you mean Linux here. Strictly speaking,
>a system is not UNIX unless certified by The Open Group. 

...and loosely speaking, all system certified to be "UNIX" compliant has been
competed out of the market, because TOG has been too busy fighting the
wars of the past, then preparing for the future.

Anyway, code like this can be written to compile and work across all the
relevant *IX operating systems with a minimum of effort, so I don't think
a separate port to any of *BSD, Linux, Solaris or AIX should be necessary.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On 3 January 2018 at 11:08, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:

>
> Anyway, code like this can be written to compile and work across all the
> relevant *IX operating systems with a minimum of effort, so I don't think
> a separate port to any of *BSD, Linux, Solaris or AIX should be necessary.
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>


But to achieve code to work on those platforms, it needs regular testing on
those platforms, because otherwise non-portable code will be introduced.
That's been my experience, both on projects I have managed, and the
SageMath mathematical software.

I have here machines running Solaris (both x86 and SPARC), one that runs
AIX, and another another that runs HP-UX, although I have not powered up
the AIX or HP-UX machines for a few years, so I don't know if they still
work. But if there was interest, I could make any of these available by
remote access to others using ssh, although due to power consumption, I
would not run them 24/7/365. The UK is pretty expensive for energy.

Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message 
, "Dr. 
David Kirkby" writes:

>those platforms, because otherwise non-portable code will be introduced.
>That's been my experience, both on projects I have managed, and the
>SageMath mathematical software.

Yes, "Trust but verify" :-)

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Skilled Math Editor(s) Needed

[William H. Fite]

G'morning, Bill. I didn't mean to sound like I expected Perry to pick up
the ball and run with it, only that Latex was the way to go for whomever
picked it up.

I'd volunteer to lend a hand with that but we're both so committed with
projects into the foreseeable future that there is no time remaining to
take on anything new.



On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, Bill Hawkins  wrote:

> Friends in time,
>
> Perry has apparently reached a major change in his life, perhaps because
> of a doctor's diagnosis - but there are zillions of other reasons. It
> seems to me that he is looking for someone to pick up his project and
> run with it.
>
> Advising him on the ways he could continue is probably not useful. He
> needs someone to take the baton and take it further.
>
> I say this as one who has downsized by 75% in order to move into a life
> care community after my wife and I had cancer scares and no long term
> care insurance.
>
> A cousin was the copy editor for Gone With the Wind and other Doubleday
> books. I seem to have inherited some of those genes. But I can't tell a
> bad equation from a good one, and my French ended in High School.
>
> Happy new year to the best list on the Internet.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
>
>
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-- 
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
for sinners. His standards are quite low.
--Desmond Tutu
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[time-nuts] Recalling and honoring our heritage

[William H. Fite]

I was chided in somewhat patronizing terms by one long-time member of this
group a while back for "wasting our time with obsolete crap that no one
cares about."

Brace yourselves, I'm going to do it again.

Attached is a video (one of a series) documenting the design and
construction of mechanical watches. My sarcastic critic notwithstanding, it
is a mistake to disregard our horological heritage. This is from whence we
came. In a very real way, this is who we are.

Take a look at what can be accomplished with gears, wheels, and springs. It
is a quest for perfection every bit bit as serious and dedicated as the
quest for electronic clocks with accuracy in the attasecond range.

Or just mutter under your breath and smack the delete key.

https://youtu.be/hoO7PtR0ujY



-- 
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
for sinners. His standards are quite low.
--Desmond Tutu
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Re: [time-nuts] Recalling and honoring our heritage

[Jeremy Nichols]

Really enjoyable, thank you for the link!

Jeremy


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 7:03 AM William H. Fite  wrote:

> I was chided in somewhat patronizing terms by one long-time member of this
> group a while back for "wasting our time with obsolete crap that no one
> cares about."
>
> Brace yourselves, I'm going to do it again.
>
> Attached is a video (one of a series) documenting the design and
> construction of mechanical watches. My sarcastic critic notwithstanding, it
> is a mistake to disregard our horological heritage. This is from whence we
> came. In a very real way, this is who we are.
>
> Take a look at what can be accomplished with gears, wheels, and springs. It
> is a quest for perfection every bit bit as serious and dedicated as the
> quest for electronic clocks with accuracy in the attasecond range.
>
> Or just mutter under your breath and smack the delete key.
>
> https://youtu.be/hoO7PtR0ujY
>
>
>
> --
> Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
> when it deserves it.
> --Mark Twain
>
> We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
> for sinners. His standards are quite low.
> --Desmond Tutu
> ___
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-- 
Sent from my iPad 4.
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[time-nuts] Tourbillon: Recalling and honoring our heritage

[Tom Knox]

Hi All;

Happy New Years - This may be common knowledge but before Quartz it was 
difficult for a watch to keep accurate time in a watch vs a pendulum clock due 
to motion and gravity.

Then several centuries ago the Tourbillon movement was design by a Time-Nut 
like ourselves. I my humble opinion it is still one of the most amazing feats 
of engineering ever. And if you are lucky enough to own one you could trade it 
for a Time-Nuts dream lab today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourbillon

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Stuhrling_Tourbillon_Movement.ogv/1200px--Stuhrling_Tourbillon_Movement.ogv.jpg]

Tourbillon - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In horology, a tourbillon (/ t ʊər ˈ b ɪ l j ən /; French: [tuʁbijɔ̃] 
"whirlwind") is an addition to the mechanics of a watch escapement. Developed 
around ...

Peace;

Tom Knox





From: time-nuts  on behalf of Jeremy Nichols 

Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Recalling and honoring our heritage

Really enjoyable, thank you for the link!

Jeremy


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 7:03 AM William H. Fite  wrote:

> I was chided in somewhat patronizing terms by one long-time member of this
> group a while back for "wasting our time with obsolete crap that no one
> cares about."
>
> Brace yourselves, I'm going to do it again.
>
> Attached is a video (one of a series) documenting the design and
> construction of mechanical watches. My sarcastic critic notwithstanding, it
> is a mistake to disregard our horological heritage. This is from whence we
> came. In a very real way, this is who we are.
>
> Take a look at what can be accomplished with gears, wheels, and springs. It
> is a quest for perfection every bit bit as serious and dedicated as the
> quest for electronic clocks with accuracy in the attasecond range.
>
> Or just mutter under your breath and smack the delete key.
>
> https://youtu.be/hoO7PtR0ujY
[https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hoO7PtR0ujY/hqdefault.jpg]

Watchmaking art part 1
youtu.be
Watchmaker documentary


>
>
>
> --
> Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
> when it deserves it.
> --Mark Twain
>
> We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
> for sinners. His standards are quite low.
> --Desmond Tutu
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Enterprises
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time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior 
postings to ...


> and follow the instructions there.
>
--
Sent from my iPad 4.
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time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior 
postings to ...


and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Tourbillon: Recalling and honoring our heritage

[Bob Darlington]

Agreed that it's a pretty amazing feat of engineering.  It's just
redundant.  Our bodies come with multi-axis systems that constantly move
and counter much of what a tourbillon movement attempts to remedy.  It's
our arms.  Food for thought anyway ;-)

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Tom Knox  wrote:

> 
> Then several centuries ago the Tourbillon movement was design by a
> Time-Nut like ourselves. I my humble opinion it is still one of the most
> amazing feats of engineering ever. And if you are lucky enough to own one
> you could trade it for a Time-Nuts dream lab today.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourbillon




-Bob
N3XKB
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Re: [time-nuts] Skilled Maths Editor(s) Needed

[John Ponsonby]

When it first came out I wrote a review of the two volume work:
"The Quantum Physics of Atomic Frequency Standards" By Jacques Vanier and 
Claude Audoin 
for a well known journal. Not only was I paid handsomely but I was given the 
book(s) to keep.
It is true it is written in English but it uses french idioms which suggests 
the two francophone authors actually wrote it or at least thought of it in 
french initially.
As it is a valuable and much treasured work I’d be reluctant to let it out of 
my hands but I’d be quite prepared to copy a few pages to replace those that 
are “smeared” in the photocopy in Perry Sandeen’s possession.
John P


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[time-nuts] Oscilloquartz OSA-4350 GPSDO

[Mark Sims]

Well,  I have Lady Heather (mostly) working with the OSA-4530.   It will 
probably work with all the 453x units, but not handle all of their commands.  
The code needs some cleanup and I need to rework the handling of the satellite 
position and visibility messages (whoever thought spreading out the satellite 
info across multiple messages was a good idea needs to be spanked).   Also, I'm 
getting occasional com timeouts.

The main issue of talking to these devices is they don't like to handle 
manually typed character-by-character commands.  You need to store the command 
string in a buffer and sent it out as a unit.

I haven't yet fixed the first unit I received.  It has a hard power-ground 
short on the 5V rail.  No obvious faulty parts.  The 5V (isolated) DC-DC seems 
to be good.
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[time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

[Jeremy Nichols]

I'd like to communicate with someone who has an HP-113AR/BR Frequency 
Divider and Clock, especially someone who has one actually operating. 
Mine seems to be noisy (motor/gear noise, not 1 KHz whine) and hard to 
start. Having never seen one of these before getting mine, I have no 
idea whether mine is normal or abnormal. It would be useful to 
communicate, via this list or privately, with someone who has more 
experience. Mine is an "AR," serial 029-00156.


Jeremy

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Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

[tim...@timeok.it]

   Hi Jeremy,
   The HP113BR is exactly as you describe it. The prevailing noise is that of 
the rotating mechanisms of the clock.
   To start it, you have to quickly turn the internal knob in the right 
direction so that the clock rotates counterclockwise.
   For more information ask.
   Luciano
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it


   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
   A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
   Cc
   Data Wed, 3 Jan 2018 22:15:23 -0800
   Oggetto [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?
   I'd like to communicate with someone who has an HP-113AR/BR Frequency
   Divider and Clock, especially someone who has one actually operating.
   Mine seems to be noisy (motor/gear noise, not 1 KHz whine) and hard to
   start. Having never seen one of these before getting mine, I have no
   idea whether mine is normal or abnormal. It would be useful to
   communicate, via this list or privately, with someone who has more
   experience. Mine is an "AR," serial 029-00156.

   Jeremy

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