[time-nuts] PTTI 2018

[Kevin Croissant]

Is anyone else attending PTTI 2018 this year in Reston, VA?
https://www.ion.org/ptti/

Perhaps people would be interested in a meet-up, I am here with my
university for a presentation but I am sure I can get away for a bit.

-- 
Kevin Croissant
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

As mentioned multiple times in the archives. As you get into the single digit 
milliseconds, the human eye simply can’t keep up. A watch that is 1 ns off 
and one that is 1 ms off are both “good enough” if you are looking at it with a 
normal eyeball. 

>From a design standpoint 1 ms / day / week is *way* different that 1 ns over 
>the
same sort of period. Design constraints *do* make a big difference. It’s 
important
in any project to get them sorted early. 

If you are spending $5K on a CSAC, tossing in another $100 on a GPS isn’t 
going to even get into the roundoff error. You *will* need the GPS gizmo to 
keep the CSAC calibrated. It is only a question of how often the beast gets
used. 

Bob

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:45 PM, Ronald Held  wrote:
> 
> Bob:
> Right now I own nothing that outputs a GPS PPS. GPS watches I own do
> not have that option.   Maybe for infrequent resets, an independent
> GPS unit is better from a design and construction POV?
>   Ronald
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> A GPS PPS output will (most likely) be more accurate than the CSAC
> each time you go back to dock with the charger. A GPS module to do
> everything you would ever want to do is a sub $100 sort of item. You
> would still need a bit of hardware to “glue” things together (but not a lot)
> and some code running on the MCU of your choice to supervise the process.
> 
> Accuracy wise, a GPS PPS is *very* hard to beat.
> 
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Si5340 synthesizer chip performance

[John Ackermann N8UR]

The reference was a 5 MHz Wenzel ULN and the instrument was a Miles TimePod.

On Jan 28, 2018, 8:13 PM, at 8:13 PM, Jerry Hancock  wrote:
>John, what device did you use for the test?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Jerry Hancock
>je...@hanler.com
>(415) 215-3779
>
>> On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:23 PM, John Ackermann N8UR 
>wrote:
>> 
>> I received the Si5340A evaluation board from Digikey on Friday and
>fired it up yesterday.  I used the SiLabs "ClockBuilder" software to
>configure four outputs -- 10 MHz, 15 MHz, 29.999 999 9 MHz, and 144.2
>MHz -- all using the 45 MHz crystal that comes with the EVM.  Attached
>is a phase noise plot of the 10 MHz and 29.999 999 9 MHz signals.  I
>would say this isn't too bad!  This performance is certainly sufficient
>for any of the RF work I have in mind.
>> 
>> The ADEV was another matter -- about 1e-9 at 1 second, working its
>way uphill from there.  But what do you expect from a bare crystal?
>> 
>> John
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Si5340 synthesizer chip performance

[Jerry Hancock]

John, what device did you use for the test?


Regards,

Jerry


Jerry Hancock
je...@hanler.com
(415) 215-3779

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:23 PM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> I received the Si5340A evaluation board from Digikey on Friday and fired it 
> up yesterday.  I used the SiLabs "ClockBuilder" software to configure four 
> outputs -- 10 MHz, 15 MHz, 29.999 999 9 MHz, and 144.2 MHz -- all using the 
> 45 MHz crystal that comes with the EVM.  Attached is a phase noise plot of 
> the 10 MHz and 29.999 999 9 MHz signals.  I would say this isn't too bad!  
> This performance is certainly sufficient for any of the RF work I have in 
> mind.
> 
> The ADEV was another matter -- about 1e-9 at 1 second, working its way uphill 
> from there.  But what do you expect from a bare crystal?
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Ronald Held]

Bob:
Right now I own nothing that outputs a GPS PPS. GPS watches I own do
not have that option.   Maybe for infrequent resets, an independent
GPS unit is better from a design and construction POV?
   Ronald



 Hi

 A GPS PPS output will (most likely) be more accurate than the CSAC
 each time you go back to dock with the charger. A GPS module to do
 everything you would ever want to do is a sub $100 sort of item. You
 would still need a bit of hardware to “glue” things together (but not a lot)
 and some code running on the MCU of your choice to supervise the process.

 Accuracy wise, a GPS PPS is *very* hard to beat.

 Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Si5340 synthesizer chip performance

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

It would be *very* interesting to see what happens if you sync it up to a 10 
MHz input ….

Bob

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:23 PM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> I received the Si5340A evaluation board from Digikey on Friday and fired it 
> up yesterday.  I used the SiLabs "ClockBuilder" software to configure four 
> outputs -- 10 MHz, 15 MHz, 29.999 999 9 MHz, and 144.2 MHz -- all using the 
> 45 MHz crystal that comes with the EVM.  Attached is a phase noise plot of 
> the 10 MHz and 29.999 999 9 MHz signals.  I would say this isn't too bad!  
> This performance is certainly sufficient for any of the RF work I have in 
> mind.
> 
> The ADEV was another matter -- about 1e-9 at 1 second, working its way uphill 
> from there.  But what do you expect from a bare crystal?
> 
> John
> 
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[time-nuts] Si5340 synthesizer chip performance

[John Ackermann N8UR]

I received the Si5340A evaluation board from Digikey on Friday and fired 
it up yesterday.  I used the SiLabs "ClockBuilder" software to configure 
four outputs -- 10 MHz, 15 MHz, 29.999 999 9 MHz, and 144.2 MHz -- all 
using the 45 MHz crystal that comes with the EVM.  Attached is a phase 
noise plot of the 10 MHz and 29.999 999 9 MHz signals.  I would say this 
isn't too bad!  This performance is certainly sufficient for any of the 
RF work I have in mind.


The ADEV was another matter -- about 1e-9 at 1 second, working its way 
uphill from there.  But what do you expect from a bare crystal?


John

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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

A GPS PPS output will (most likely) be more accurate than the CSAC
each time you go back to dock with the charger. A GPS module to do
everything you would ever want to do is a sub $100 sort of item. You 
would still need a bit of hardware to “glue” things together (but not a lot) 
and some code running on the MCU of your choice to supervise the process.

Accuracy wise, a GPS PPS is *very* hard to beat. 

Bob

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 6:19 PM, Ronald Held  wrote:
> 
> Jim:
> Hmm, I was kit thinking that way.   How rich could I get writing
> an app that is only used for CSACs?  Seems a small market ,IMO.
> Monitoring sounds easier thenSW to drive a display.
> Ronald
> 
> There's a half dozen serial ascii commands to the CSAC, and a
> corresponding number of output messages. None are particularly "special"
> - I can't imagine needing a "display" for the telemetry, except perhaps
> as a novelty.
> 
> You'd want to periodically check the heater power, maybe?
> 
> I'd just expose a "diagnostic interface" on a CSAC based clock, and if
> you want to fool with it (or change the frequency, etc.), you hook up
> your external whatever.
> LE Bluetooth Serial port perhaps?
> 
> You could write an App for a phone to talk to it, and I'm sure it will
> be in the top10 on the iStore and GooglePlay within weeks. Your
> retirement funding is assured. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark:
>   Sounds like a good idea. I have none,but some Time-nuts have more
> than one.  Maybe one will loan one out?
>Ronald
> 
> 
> 
> Bob:
>  Now there is a snproblem, as I own  nothing more accurate  the data
> dumping may prove usefulssni learn more.
>Ronald
> 
> Hi
> 
> Yes, I have set up a CPU to dump all the data from a CSAC. Everything
> they list in their data sheet can easily be dumped via a standard UART
> interface. The serial protocol works exactly the way they describe.
> 
> There is no “built in clock” so no ability to dump the time and date. You
> can “improve” the frequency stability by sending whatever you want to the
> tuning word. What you send and when you send it is entirely up to you.
> The real issue is having something more accurate than the CSAC to
> compare to when you do the frequency correction.
> 
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Ronald Held]

Jim:
 Hmm, I was kit thinking that way.   How rich could I get writing
an app that is only used for CSACs?  Seems a small market ,IMO.
Monitoring sounds easier thenSW to drive a display.
 Ronald

There's a half dozen serial ascii commands to the CSAC, and a
corresponding number of output messages. None are particularly "special"
- I can't imagine needing a "display" for the telemetry, except perhaps
as a novelty.

You'd want to periodically check the heater power, maybe?

I'd just expose a "diagnostic interface" on a CSAC based clock, and if
you want to fool with it (or change the frequency, etc.), you hook up
your external whatever.
LE Bluetooth Serial port perhaps?

You could write an App for a phone to talk to it, and I'm sure it will
be in the top10 on the iStore and GooglePlay within weeks. Your
retirement funding is assured. 



Mark:
   Sounds like a good idea. I have none,but some Time-nuts have more
than one.  Maybe one will loan one out?
Ronald



Bob:
  Now there is a snproblem, as I own  nothing more accurate  the data
dumping may prove usefulssni learn more.
Ronald

Hi

Yes, I have set up a CPU to dump all the data from a CSAC. Everything
they list in their data sheet can easily be dumped via a standard UART
interface. The serial protocol works exactly the way they describe.

There is no “built in clock” so no ability to dump the time and date. You
can “improve” the frequency stability by sending whatever you want to the
tuning word. What you send and when you send it is entirely up to you.
The real issue is having something more accurate than the CSAC to
compare to when you do the frequency correction.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[Julien Goodwin]

On 28/01/18 09:38, John Miles wrote:
> So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
> I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078

While we're at it, whoever picked up the SGC-1500 from the same
seller[1], if it actually boots I'd be interested in talking to see if
the one I picked up a while back can be recovered.

Given that Microsemi discontinued them back in 2013[2] I doubt much will
come from them.

1:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Symmetricom-Microsemi-090-01630-102-Rev-L-SyncServer-SGC-1500-Smart-Grid-Clock/332532177945


2:
http://www1.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/tsd/pd/SGC-1500%20PDN%20Dec%202013.pdf
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

[Richard Solomon]

One difficulty is in finding a Block Diagram with sufficient information

to determine which chip does what.


Does one exist ??


Thank you,


Richard S.


Sent from Outlook

From: time-nuts  on behalf of Chris Caudle 

Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:55:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

On Sat, January 27, 2018 9:47 am, J. L. Trantham wrote:
> I remember an issue with another OCXO where the output coupling capacitor
> connection failed and outputs were low.

The thunderbolt uses the output of the OCXO for driving internal clocks,
so likely the OCXO output is OK, but a buffer between the OCXO output and
the connector is bad.

--
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

There’s a cluster of time and frequency outfits up in the Salem area. Some have
been there for a *long* time indeed. The EG&G / Perkin Elmer Rubidium guys 
are one that comes to mind.  MTI is a bit further north, but still in the same 
side
of the Boston urban sprawl. 

Bob

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 10:10 PM, John Allen  wrote:
> 
> It is interesting to note that the seller is in Salem, MA, a few miles south 
> of Microsemi in Beverly, MA.
> 
> PS: Here is a list of the many acquisitions they have made:
> https://www.microsemi.com/company/acquisitions
> 
> John K1AE
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Miles
> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:49 PM
> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay
> 
> They're essentially the same as the original TimePod 5330A specs  ( 
> http://www.miles.io/TimePod_5330A_user_manual.pdf page 11).  The 3120A 
> doesn't display noise at offsets below 1 Hz, though, while the 5330A went 
> down to 0.01 Hz.  Also, some of the TimePod features are "added-value" 
> software options in the 3120A, but it's not clear if this unit came with any 
> of the license keys.  
> 
> The final selling price seems fairly reasonable considering the sparse 
> details provided by the seller.  If someone on the list bought it and it 
> doesn't have the software CD, drop me a note offline and I'll hook you up.
> 
> -- john, KE5FX
> Miles Design LLC
> 
>> What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
>>> I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078
>>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[Gary Woods]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:10:21 -0500, you wrote:

>It is interesting to note that the seller is in Salem, MA, a few miles south 
>of Microsemi in Beverly, MA.
OT, a bit: my ham radio elmer worked for Bomac in Beverly, MA, which
became Varian, which I just googled and indeed was bought at least in
part by Microsemi!  The P2V Neptune aircraft used one of their
hydrogen thyratrons to fire the megawatt search radar.

We now return you to time/frequency stuff

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