[time-nuts] DCF77 Time/Data Display Project

[Gregory Beat]

DCF77 is a German longwave time signal and standard-frequency radio station.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77

There are commercial receivers and readers for DCF77, 
but this DIY project by Erik Deruiter from the Netherlands
using the Arduino MEGA from 2016 was unique.
https://youtu.be/ZadSU_DT-Ks

Github (V2.0), 
https://github.com/deruiter

Flickr photo gallery
https://www.flickr.com/photos/edr1924/albums/72157666568222444/

greg

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Re: [time-nuts] Cady Award , Enrico Rubiola

[Dr. Ulrich L. Rohde via time-nuts]

> Dear Enrico:
>  
> Let me be the first to congratulate you on winning the 2018 Cady Award “For 
> ground-breaking contributions to noise analysis and signal-source theory, and 
> experimental achievements in the electronic and photonic domains.”  I hope 
> you will be able to join us at the 2018 IEEE Frequency Control Symposium, 
> which will be held at Squaw Creek Resort, Lake Tahoe, California on May 
> 21-24, where we can properly recognize your achievements with the formal 
> presentation of the award.  Again, congratulations on receiving this 
> well-deserved distinction.
>  
> Best regards,
> James
>  
> James Camparo, Ph.D.
> IEEE IFCS Awards Committee Chair
>  
> Aerospace Fellow
> The Aerospace Corporation


Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[Mark Goldberg]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 2:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
wrote:

> If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
> its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
> reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
> lamp apart and change a resistor.
>

I don't know anything about these devices, but for TCXOs, the power supply
noise significantly affects the phase noise of the output. An LM317 is not
well specified for noise and I expect is is orders of magnitude worse than
something like an LT3042 low noise regulator.

Regards,

Mark
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Corby no intent to rework the bulb.
Its just I have had good success with bulbs from the FE- series when
they fail to operate by heating the bulb to re-vaporize the "Stuff" that
plates out. Wasn't sure if this would be an approach on the 5065 when that
day comes for mine.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:03 PM,  wrote:

> Paul,
>
> You do NOT want to take one apart to this level!
>
> It's never going to operate again.
>
> If you look at the lamp in the PIX you will see a white coil wrapped
> around the bulb.
>
> This is the tank for the 90Mhz drive and it sits cocked at a 45 degree
> angle.
>
> The lamp assy can be removed easily via 3 small screws and repaired or
> modified.
>
> The Lamp circuit is designed to put out a bit higher RF level and once
> the lamp starts it drops down a bit.
>
> I would question re-engineering the lamp circuit as it can easily reach
> 1.5X10-13th at 100 Sec stability and 5X10-14th at 100 Sec. with the
> filter mod.
>
> Unless you have a maser or BVA to compare against how will you know if
> any modifications are going to help or hurt?
>
> The only thing I replace even if it measures OK is the 1.33K resistor as
> it will "crack" eventually and change value.
>
> A 1.3K 5% 1W metal oxide works well.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
>
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[time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[cdelect]

Paul,

You do NOT want to take one apart to this level!

It's never going to operate again.

If you look at the lamp in the PIX you will see a white coil wrapped
around the bulb.

This is the tank for the 90Mhz drive and it sits cocked at a 45 degree
angle.

The lamp assy can be removed easily via 3 small screws and repaired or
modified.

The Lamp circuit is designed to put out a bit higher RF level and once
the lamp starts it drops down a bit.

I would question re-engineering the lamp circuit as it can easily reach
1.5X10-13th at 100 Sec stability and 5X10-14th at 100 Sec. with the
filter mod.

Unless you have a maser or BVA to compare against how will you know if
any modifications are going to help or hurt?

The only thing I replace even if it measures OK is the 1.33K resistor as
it will "crack" eventually and change value.

A 1.3K 5% 1W metal oxide works well.

Cheers,

Corby

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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Corby
Really appreciate the pix.
Curious. How hard was it to open the oven up and then is it equally
reasonable to re-assemble it.
I will guess its reasonable since you insert the filter into the system.
Really curious do you see the bulb darken as if the RB is plating out?
Thats what I see on older small FE RB's.
Thank you.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:32 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Its RF and mag loop.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Dana Whitlow 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm curious:
>>
>> Is the lamp RF-excited, or by DC going to internal electrodes?
>>
>> And if by RF, is the energy coupled in magnetically by a loop,
>> or by capacitive electrodes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> > Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>> > shield assembly.
>> >
>> > Left to right:
>> >
>> > Lamp assy
>> > lamp oven cylinder
>> > lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>> > Rb85 filter cell
>> > cell oven cylinder/cavity
>> > Rb87 resonance cell
>> >
>> > Enjoy!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Corby
>> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Its RF and mag loop.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Dana Whitlow  wrote:

> I'm curious:
>
> Is the lamp RF-excited, or by DC going to internal electrodes?
>
> And if by RF, is the energy coupled in magnetically by a loop,
> or by capacitive electrodes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
> > shield assembly.
> >
> > Left to right:
> >
> > Lamp assy
> > lamp oven cylinder
> > lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
> > Rb85 filter cell
> > cell oven cylinder/cavity
> > Rb87 resonance cell
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Corby
> > ___
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> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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> >
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[Dana Whitlow]

I'm curious:

Is the lamp RF-excited, or by DC going to internal electrodes?

And if by RF, is the energy coupled in magnetically by a loop,
or by capacitive electrodes?

Thanks,

Dana




On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:

> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
> shield assembly.
>
> Left to right:
>
> Lamp assy
> lamp oven cylinder
> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
> Rb85 filter cell
> cell oven cylinder/cavity
> Rb87 resonance cell
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[paul swed]

Walter pure speculation.
Maybe the 100 MHz is superposed to be locked to the 10 MHz.
With a scope see what the drift rates are between the two.
Adjust EFC slowly to get the 100 MHz to go below the 10 MHZ if its running
fast.
See if the light changes to green.
If it does you know that the system is supposed to be locked and they
aren't.
Most semi good systems systems do not allow outputs if there is a fault.
But you know that already.
Pure guess.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM, djl  wrote:

> start with the power supplies, and go on until morning...
> Don
>
>
> On 2018-02-19 16:57, walter shawlee 2 wrote:
>
>> I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an
>> FE-7923F-100-1,
>> which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called
>> a Frequency Reference Unit.
>>
>> sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal
>> supplies look good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100
>> (100Mhz) OCXO inside.  both of these work (when measured at the
>> oscillators), and seem to have meaningful control including EFC, and I
>> tracked down the adjustments in a sea of what seem to be prototype
>> boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good sources,
>> adjustable, but still no outputs.
>> the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful
>> markings as to function, and look mainly digital.
>>
>> the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to
>> me, the other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either
>> unit on line or at the FEI website, so any data that is out there
>> would be very welcome, so I can be sure they at least are running
>> correctly.
>>
>> I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in
>> other gear, but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the
>> circuitry and add some new buffers, or figure out the rats nest of
>> hand wiring to determine why it's not working.  any help in that area
>> hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to anybody interested to know
>> more about the internals.
>>
>> the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to
>> it that says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an
>> external ref.  then there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to
>> the stacked digital boards, but its purpose is unknown as I cannot see
>> where the connections go.  there are also two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but
>> all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front ONLINE green LED
>> is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not run to
>> the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.
>>
>> hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
>> all the best,
>> walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Shawlee 2, President
>> Sphere Research Corporation
>> 3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
>> V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
>> walt...@sphere.bc.ca
>> WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
>> Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
>> But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)
>>
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>
> --
> Dr. Don Latham
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Should have carefully read Corby's comment.
Lamps left.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:40 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Wow on the right, is that the lamp?
> Thats one large lamp to light. I am use to the little capsules about the
> size of a pr-1 light bulb.
> This is a keeper picture.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Indeed very cool pictures.
>>
>> If the lamp is like most gas bulb lights, there is indeed a “strike
>> voltage” required
>> to get things going (or an RF excitation). There inevitably is some
>> temperature
>> dependence as well. A constant current driver might be the better bet.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 4:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> > In message , cdel...@juno.com
>> writes:
>> >
>> >> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>> >> shield assembly.
>> >
>> > Nice!
>> >
>> >> Left to right:
>> >>
>> >> Lamp assy
>> >> lamp oven cylinder
>> >> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>> >> Rb85 filter cell
>> >
>> > It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
>> > between the reflector and the filter cell ?
>> >
>> > I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.
>> >
>> > Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
>> > voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
>> > a linear relationship.
>> >
>> > If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
>> > its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
>> > reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
>> > lamp apart and change a resistor.
>> >
>> > A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
>> > easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
>> > is a nice bonus.
>> >
>> > If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
>> > lower in a matter of minutes.
>> >
>> > Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
>> > is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
>> > constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
>> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
>> incompetence.
>> > ___
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>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Wow on the right, is that the lamp?
Thats one large lamp to light. I am use to the little capsules about the
size of a pr-1 light bulb.
This is a keeper picture.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Indeed very cool pictures.
>
> If the lamp is like most gas bulb lights, there is indeed a “strike
> voltage” required
> to get things going (or an RF excitation). There inevitably is some
> temperature
> dependence as well. A constant current driver might be the better bet.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 4:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In message , cdel...@juno.com
> writes:
> >
> >> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
> >> shield assembly.
> >
> > Nice!
> >
> >> Left to right:
> >>
> >> Lamp assy
> >> lamp oven cylinder
> >> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
> >> Rb85 filter cell
> >
> > It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
> > between the reflector and the filter cell ?
> >
> > I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.
> >
> > Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
> > voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
> > a linear relationship.
> >
> > If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
> > its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
> > reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
> > lamp apart and change a resistor.
> >
> > A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
> > easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
> > is a nice bonus.
> >
> > If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
> > lower in a matter of minutes.
> >
> > Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
> > is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
> > constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...
> >
> > --
> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> incompetence.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Indeed very cool pictures.

If the lamp is like most gas bulb lights, there is indeed a “strike voltage” 
required
to get things going (or an RF excitation). There inevitably is some temperature 
dependence as well. A constant current driver might be the better bet.

Bob

> On Feb 20, 2018, at 4:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:
> 
> 
> In message , cdel...@juno.com writes:
> 
>> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>> shield assembly.
> 
> Nice!
> 
>> Left to right:
>> 
>> Lamp assy
>> lamp oven cylinder
>> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>> Rb85 filter cell
> 
> It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
> between the reflector and the filter cell ?
> 
> I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.
> 
> Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
> voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
> a linear relationship.
> 
> If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
> its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
> reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
> lamp apart and change a resistor.
> 
> A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
> easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
> is a nice bonus.
> 
> If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
> lower in a matter of minutes.
> 
> Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
> is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
> constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...
> 
> -- 
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If it works like the unit that replaced it, it has a level detect on the 
external
input that rejects signals below some threshold. It either locks up to the 
internal
standard or to the external input. All of the outputs are in the 7 to 13 dim 
range
when operating. 

The fault circuit looks at the OCXO warmup indicators as well as things like 
PLL out of range to pop the fault light. It should have timers to qualify all 
of 
this stuff. 

There also *may* be an option to pass the external standard through to the
low frequency output connector ( = no PLL on the low frequency). It depends
a bit on which application it was going into. 

Bob

> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:35 PM, Arthur Dent  wrote:
> 
> Some time ago bought one on Ebay for under $50 just because it looked
> interesting. It isn't a prototype but most of the FEI units probably
> had limited production. It seemed to be more complicated than I
> expected it to be but if I understood it better it would make more
> sense.
> 
> The 10Mhz board is enabled/disabled by the int/external switch. The
> 10Mhz output and EFC from this oscillator board are connected to the
> interface board. I believe that these 2 boards and the switch/connector
> on the back allow you to use the internal 10Mhz oscillator to output
> 10Mhz and send 10Mhz on (perhaps a connector marked J4) to a comparator
> board. If I recall this part of the unit should work independant of
> the other boards.
> 
> The comparator board is probably a PLL that compares its 10Mhz input
> with its 100Mhz input and outputs an EFC voltage to the 100Mhz
> oscillator. the 100MHz oscillator output goes to the amplifier board
> with two 100Mhz outputs on the back panel. There is also a 100Mhz
> signal that goes back to the PLL board so the 100Mhz is locked to
> the 10Mhz oscillator or an external input (if I remember correctly).
> 
> There are also other wires that control the light and other stuff
> but I didn't trace them out and my unit seems to work as intended.
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , cdel...@juno.com writes:

>Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>shield assembly.

Nice!

>Left to right:
>
>Lamp assy
>lamp oven cylinder
>lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>Rb85 filter cell

It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
between the reflector and the filter cell ?

I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.

Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
a linear relationship.

If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
lamp apart and change a resistor.

A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
is a nice bonus.

If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
lower in a matter of minutes.

Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Richard Solomon]

There was one listed over on that auction site, it said best offer, so I made a 
low offer and it was accepted !!

Guess my offer was too high !!


Anyway, it has the Red Fault Light on, so it has issues too.


If anyone finds any info on it, I would appreciate getting it. If I find out 
anything about it, I will post it here.


Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook

From: time-nuts  on behalf of Arthur Dent 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:35:14 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info

Some time ago bought one on Ebay for under $50 just because it looked
interesting. It isn't a prototype but most of the FEI units probably
had limited production. It seemed to be more complicated than I
expected it to be but if I understood it better it would make more
sense.

The 10Mhz board is enabled/disabled by the int/external switch. The
10Mhz output and EFC from this oscillator board are connected to the
interface board. I believe that these 2 boards and the switch/connector
on the back allow you to use the internal 10Mhz oscillator to output
10Mhz and send 10Mhz on (perhaps a connector marked J4) to a comparator
board. If I recall this part of the unit should work independant of
the other boards.

The comparator board is probably a PLL that compares its 10Mhz input
with its 100Mhz input and outputs an EFC voltage to the 100Mhz
oscillator. the 100MHz oscillator output goes to the amplifier board
with two 100Mhz outputs on the back panel. There is also a 100Mhz
signal that goes back to the PLL board so the 100Mhz is locked to
the 10Mhz oscillator or an external input (if I remember correctly).

There are also other wires that control the light and other stuff
but I didn't trace them out and my unit seems to work as intended.
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