[time-nuts] Cesium sold

[Doug Millar via time-nuts]

Hi, Thanks for all the responses. The unit has been spoken and paid for. Doug 
K6JEY
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

At least these days, a 5071 comes back from the factory with the same Hazmat 
labels 
on it as it ships into their factory with. 

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:
> 
> 
> In message , Bob kb8tq writes:
> 
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping 
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly 
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs 
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category. 
> 
> The reason for this is actually not very silly.
> 
> Very potent Cs137 sources are used in borehole characterization in
> disturbingly high numbers, and they are licensed and tracked by the
> relevant national regulatory agency, NRC.gov in the USA.
> 
> The HAZMAT regulations used to be different for Cs137 (nuclear
> concerns) and Cs133 (chemical concerns) but smartasses in the oil
> industry discovered lower costs if they "couldn't remember the
> number".
> 
> I belive HP used to have an exemption for shipping factory new
> CS-tubes *from* their factory, but not for shipping new or used
> tubes *to* their factory, because customers could not be trusted
> to pack according to spec.
> 
> -- 
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[djl]

Hi Doug. Did not see my email go by. Would like to have the cs standard.
I'm visiting my family in Huntington Beach and can pick it up so no 
packing. Have cash.

Off list at djl at Montana dot com
Thanks Don AJ7LL


On 2018-05-18 22:04, Doug Millar via time-nuts wrote:

Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
The unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
then. There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have
not tested it recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the
front. The unit is in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus
shipping from Long Beach, CA. 90806
I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
resistance standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested.
Very reasonable.
 Thanks, Doug K6JEY
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--
Dr. Don Latham
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304

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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , Bob kb8tq writes:

>Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping 
>hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly 
>reasons
>the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs 
>standard  falls into the hazardous category. 

The reason for this is actually not very silly.

Very potent Cs137 sources are used in borehole characterization in
disturbingly high numbers, and they are licensed and tracked by the
relevant national regulatory agency, NRC.gov in the USA.

The HAZMAT regulations used to be different for Cs137 (nuclear
concerns) and Cs133 (chemical concerns) but smartasses in the oil
industry discovered lower costs if they "couldn't remember the
number".

I belive HP used to have an exemption for shipping factory new
CS-tubes *from* their factory, but not for shipping new or used
tubes *to* their factory, because customers could not be trusted
to pack according to spec.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Well I *can* say that when you ship a 5071 back to be re-tubed, you *do* 
run into the Cs shipping rule. HP did a bunch of stuff to demonstrate that
there was near zero chance of a problem. Ultimately it had zero impact on
how the rules were written. 

I’m by no means trying to tell people not to ship Cs standards. I just want 
them to be aware of what the might run into. It’s not the risk from the Cs
that is the issue to me …..

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 3:49 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> 
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>> 
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>> 
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>> 
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>> 
>> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
>> flashing.
>> 
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
>> is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>> 
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>> 
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bobs
>>> Comments are on target.
>>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>>> recover the tube.
>>> 
>>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>>> 
>>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>>> are pretty much dead.
>>> 
>>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
>>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
>>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
>>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
>>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
>> when I
>>> picked up my 2nd 5061.
>>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
>> gets
>>> a discount we don't.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Paul

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Magnus Danielson]

Paul,

Cesium 133 is a stable isotope in terms of nuclear decay, but it is
still an alkali metal and as such needs to be properly handled. Cesium
combined with water forms a very strong base which etches glass for
instance.

Then the amounts of it and how hard to get to it is another things.
It's safer in a cesium tube than in a glass ampule, but you can make
both safe in transport.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/19/2018 09:49 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> 
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>>
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>>
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>>
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>>
>> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
>> flashing.
>>
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
>> is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>>
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>>
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>>>
>>> Bobs
>>> Comments are on target.
>>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>>> recover the tube.
>>>
>>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>>>
>>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>>> are pretty much dead.
>>>
>>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
>>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
>>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
>>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
>>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
>> when I
>>> picked up my 2nd 5061.
>>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
>> gets
>>> a discount we don't.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq  

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bob
Did go looking on the internet.
I had quite a laugh because indeed our friends at Amazon and Ebay will
happily sell you a 1 gram vile of Cesium. $226.
By the way thats free shipping. Chuckle.
No mention of shipping issues.
Letting this part of the thread drop.
Someone gets a nice reference if it works.
Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 3:49 PM, paul swed  wrote:

> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>>
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>>
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>>
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>>
>> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign
>> is flashing.
>>
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It
>> probably is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>>
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>>
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>> >
>> > Bobs
>> > Comments are on target.
>> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>> > recover the tube.
>> >
>> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>> >
>> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>> > are pretty much dead.
>> >
>> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
>> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
>> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
>> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
>> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
>> when I
>> > picked up my 2nd 5061.
>> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
>> gets
>> > a discount we don't.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Paul
>> > WB8TSL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>> >
>> >> 

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bob
I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
Just saying. Neither right or wrong.

Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>
> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
> shipping
> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
> reasons
> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
> Cs
> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>
> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
> certified
> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
> with your
> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
> come out
> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
> standards.
> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
> standard.
> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>
> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
> months to get
> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
> label on
> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
> is needed
> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
> the fees
> involved ….)
>
> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
> hits
> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
> actually
> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
> is
> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
> flashing.
>
> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
> standard, ( without
> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
> sorts of nonsense.
> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
> to get delivered.
> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
> is not going to get
> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>
> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
> of it getting
> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
> that point
> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>
> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > Bobs
> > Comments are on target.
> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
> not
> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
> to
> > recover the tube.
> >
> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
> The
> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
> out
> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
> The
> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
> >
> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
> > are pretty much dead.
> >
> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
> when I
> > picked up my 2nd 5061.
> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
> gets
> > a discount we don't.
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that
> it's
> >>> possible
> >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not,
> I'm
> >>> terribly
> >>
> >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
> >> you could do
> >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
> >> standard made by
> >> anybody that does 

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. 

Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping 
hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly reasons
the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs 
standard  falls into the hazardous category. 

So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and 
certified
as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate with 
your 
favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then come 
out 
and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper standards. 
Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs standard. 
Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. 

If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of months to 
get
it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat label on
the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what is 
needed 
for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and the 
fees
involved ….)

So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive hits
the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of 
actually
hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process is 
probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is 
flashing. 

Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs standard, ( 
without
all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all sorts of 
nonsense. 
If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going to get 
delivered. 
If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably is 
not going to get 
returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….

Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance of it 
getting 
noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at that 
point 
all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.

Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Bobs
> Comments are on target.
> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may not
> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt to
> recover the tube.
> 
> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. The
> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading out
> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. The
> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
> 
> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
> are pretty much dead.
> 
> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago when I
> picked up my 2nd 5061.
> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely gets
> a discount we don't.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> 
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
>>> possible
>>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
>>> terribly
>> 
>> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
>> you could do
>> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
>> standard made by
>> anybody that does something like that.
>> 
>> 
>>> surprised and disappointed.
>>> 
>>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
>>> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>> 
>> 
>> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have
>> indeed proven that
>> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard
>> grade” tube should
>> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube
>> from what era 

Re: [time-nuts] Resistance components interested.

[Don]

I would be interested, ...please put me on the list.

Thank you
Don Lewis
N5CID
Austin, TX

===
===
On Sat, 2018-05-19 at 13:19 -0400, paul swed wrote:
> Apologies to everyone as this part of Doug's offer isn't time nuts.
> Doug I am interested in the R's
> Please contact me directly
> paulsw...@gmail.com
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/t
> ime-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bobs
Comments are on target.
The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may not
clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt to
recover the tube.

In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. The
beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading out
like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. The
tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.

The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
are pretty much dead.

As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago when I
picked up my 2nd 5061.
I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely gets
a discount we don't.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow 
> wrote:
> >
> > Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
> > possible
> > to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
> > terribly
>
> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
> you could do
> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
> standard made by
> anybody that does something like that.
>
>
> > surprised and disappointed.
> >
> > Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
> > reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>
>
> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have
> indeed proven that
> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard
> grade” tube should
> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube
> from what era and
> who made the specific tube.
>
> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones (
> = what we play with)
> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. They
> may not all be made
> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs
> standards with dead
> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out of ….
>
> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I did
> that the bill was
> about $38,000. That included them putting it in.
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > Dana
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
> >> tube. You can
> >> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
> >> that the fuel
> >> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Doug
> >>>
> >>> Is it possible to test its operation and
> >>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> >> Millar
> >>> via time-nuts
> >>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> >>>
> >>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
> The
> >>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
> then.
> >>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> >> tested it
> >>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> >> is
> >>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
> Beach,
> >> CA.
> >>> 90806
> >>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> >> resistance
> >>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
> reasonable.
> >>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> No virus found in this message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 

[time-nuts] Resistance components interested.

[paul swed]

Apologies to everyone as this part of Doug's offer isn't time nuts.
Doug I am interested in the R's
Please contact me directly
paulsw...@gmail.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi



> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow  wrote:
> 
> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
> possible
> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
> terribly

Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before you 
could do
anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic standard 
made by
anybody that does something like that. 


> surprised and disappointed.
> 
> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?


Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have 
indeed proven that
to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard 
grade” tube should
run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube from 
what era and 
who made the specific tube. 

Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones ( = 
what we play with)
are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. They may 
not all be made
anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs standards 
with dead 
tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out of ….

Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I did that 
the bill was
about $38,000. That included them putting it in.

Bob

> 
> Dana
> 
> 
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
>> tube. You can
>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
>> that the fuel
>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Doug
>>> 
>>> Is it possible to test its operation and
>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
>> Millar
>>> via time-nuts
>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
>>> 
>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
>> tested it
>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
>> is
>>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach,
>> CA.
>>> 90806
>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
>> resistance
>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable.
>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date:
>> 05/19/18
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[djl]

Hi Doug
I'm visiting just down the coast and could pick up the HP. If not sold 
I'll take it.

Don AJ7LL


On 2018-05-18 22:04, Doug Millar via time-nuts wrote:

Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
The unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
then. There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have
not tested it recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the
front. The unit is in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus
shipping from Long Beach, CA. 90806
I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
resistance standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested.
Very reasonable.
 Thanks, Doug K6JEY
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--
Dr. Don Latham
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304

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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Mike Feher]

Along the same lines, I wonder how long a new tube can last on the shelf? About 
16 years ago I bought a 5061A on eBay. When I received it I noticed the tube 
was replaced and still had 2 years on the warranty. It worked just fine. The 
only problem was the battery charging circuit. Wanting to make it perfect, I 
started working on repairing it. Needless to say, it is still apart due to a 
separation in 2013 and a divorce in 2015. I have not touched it since 2012. For 
me, at 73 now, stairs are not much fun and my old lab is in the basement, but, 
I wonder if I did brave to go down there would it be worth playing with it 
again. Thanks for any observations in this regard. Regards – Mike 

 

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell NJ 07731

848-245-9115

 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:39 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

 

Dana,

 

I would suggest downloading and reading the HP journals that discussed the 
first clocks there's a lot of information in there about how they operate Etc.

 

On Sat, May 19, 2018, 8:23 AM Dana Whitlow <  
k8yumdoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that 

> it's possible to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the 

> tube?  If not, I'm terribly surprised and disappointed.

> 

> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until 

> it reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?

> 

> Dana

> 

> 

> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <  
> kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> 

> > Hi

> >

> > Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in 

> > the tube. You can look at beam current and make a guess. All that 

> > really will tell you is that the fuel gauge is on empty or at least 

> > just off of empty.

> >

> > Bob

> >

> > > On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 

> > > <  p...@bicknells.f2s.com>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Doug

> > >

> > > Is it possible to test its operation and

> > > can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul

> > >

> > > -Original Message-

> > > From: time-nuts [  
> > > mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 

> > > Doug

> > Millar

> > > via time-nuts

> > > Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04

> > > To:   time-nuts@febo.com

> > > Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

> > >

> > > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.

> The

> > > unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since

> then.

> > > There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not

> > tested it

> > > recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The 

> > > unit

> > is

> > > in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long

> Beach,

> > CA.

> > > 90806

> > > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary

> > resistance

> > > standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very

> reasonable.

> > >  Thanks, Doug K6JEY

> > > ___

> > > time-nuts mailing list --   time-nuts@febo.com 
> > > To unsubscribe, go to 

> > >   
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

> > > and follow the instructions there.

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > No virus found in this message.

> > > Checked by AVG -   www.avg.com

> > > Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date:

> > 05/19/18

> > >

> > > ___

> > > time-nuts mailing list --   time-nuts@febo.com 
> > > To unsubscribe, go to 

> > >   https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/

> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

> > > and follow the instructions there.

> >

> > ___

> > time-nuts mailing list --   time-nuts@febo.com 
> > To unsubscribe, go to 

> >   https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ 
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow 

> > the instructions there.

> >

> ___

> time-nuts mailing list --   time-nuts@febo.com To 
> unsubscribe, go to 

>   
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

> and follow the instructions there.

> 

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unsubscribe, go to 

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Pete Lancashire]

Dana,

I would suggest downloading and reading the HP journals that discussed the
first clocks there's a lot of information in there about how they operate
Etc.

On Sat, May 19, 2018, 8:23 AM Dana Whitlow  wrote:

> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
> possible
> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
> terribly
> surprised and disappointed.
>
> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>
> Dana
>
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
> > tube. You can
> > look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
> > that the fuel
> > gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Doug
> > >
> > > Is it possible to test its operation and
> > > can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> > Millar
> > > via time-nuts
> > > Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> > > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > > Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> > >
> > > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
> The
> > > unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
> then.
> > > There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> > tested it
> > > recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> > is
> > > in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
> Beach,
> > CA.
> > > 90806
> > > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> > resistance
> > > standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
> reasonable.
> > >  Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date:
> > 05/19/18
> > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> and follow the instructions there.
>
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[time-nuts] NPL Open House 2018 prepare for 2019

[Bo Hansen]

Hello

This is a very early warning for the 2019 event.

Thursday 17/5 Michael, OZ2ELA, and I attended the NPL Open House 2018 event: 
 Our visit was both to attend the event but 
also to see what NPL uses the Next Generation Beacons units for.

It was a really interesting event with lots of information for those interested 
in "the measure of all things", e.g. the work on the optical clock aiming for a 
1 x 10^-20.

If the above link and the program sounds interesting then look out for the 2019 
event. If you are an international subscriber to this list it is worth a 
travel. NPL is only 10 km from London Heathrow. When the 2019 invitation is 
published I advice you to download the Visitor Guide study it and plan your 
route.

A great thanks to Jochen and Giuseppe!

Bo, OZ2M

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Re: [time-nuts] Traveling to the US west coast

[Jeremy Nichols]

It looks like IFCS is being held in the Lake Tahoe area; if I were Attila,
I'd fly into Reno and rent a car for the beautiful drive up into the
Sierra, thus avoiding SFO/OAK and the Bay Area traffic mess.

Jeremy


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:48 PM Magnus Danielson <
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I hope you guys all get together to meet with Attila.
> Unfortunately I will not be able to join this time, as I'd love to be at
> IFCS too, the budget for it did not materialize this time.
>
> I too need to get to SF bay area and Seattle area to meet the many
> friends there, but this was not the time.
>
> I did have the time to meet Attila att EFTF in Torino, I keep meeting
> him in more places in the world, including Neuchatel, Zurich, Besancon,
> Berlin/Potsdam, Paris, Torino... I really enjoy each time. So make sure
> to find him out now that he gets in your kneck of the woods.
>
> So, until I get to travel, I keep working on my backlog of articles.
> Already sent one of and another one is shaping up (finally).
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 05/19/2018 05:32 AM, David Smith wrote:
> > If Attilla is going to be in the Bay area I would like to come up and
> maybe have dinner. I live in Fresno, 180 miles south of San Francisco.
> >
> > Dave W6TE
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Pete
> Stephenson
> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 8:29 PM
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Traveling to the US west coast
> >
> > Interestingly enough, I've moved from. Switzerland (where I've met
> Atilla) and am now in the Bay Area. It's be great to meet up again.
> >
> > Even if Attila doesn't make it to the SF area, I'd be interested in
> getting some local time nuts together.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > -Pete
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018, at 6:36 PM, Jerry Hancock wrote:
> >> Are you going to be in San Francisco area?  Maybe we could get a time-
> >> nuts breakfast together with a couple of us.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 17, 2018, at 11:25 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Some of you might already know, I will fly to the US west coast to
> >>> attend IFCS. Afterwards, I will be in Seattle for a couple of days
> >>> (from 25th to 31st). If you are in the area and want to meet up,
> >>> please drop me an email (off-list).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Attila Kinali
> >>> --
> >>> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> >>> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
> >>> no use without that foundation.
> >>> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
> >>> w.febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftime-nuts=02%7C01%7
> >>> C%7C1947df2ea29d48f7aa3208d5bd38b10a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a
> >>> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636622973542611628=Fx2SdOpMmpuGCtrh0krWB1NbzdjIy
> >>> AmbvPimzxeevqo%3D=0
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >> febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftime-nuts=02%7C01%7C%7C
> >> 1947df2ea29d48f7aa3208d5bd38b10a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C
> >> 1%7C0%7C636622973542611628=Fx2SdOpMmpuGCtrh0krWB1NbzdjIyAmbvPimz
> >> xeevqo%3D=0
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pete Stephenson
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftime-nuts=02%7C01%7C%7C1947df2ea29d48f7aa3208d5bd38b10a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636622973542611628=Fx2SdOpMmpuGCtrh0krWB1NbzdjIyAmbvPimzxeevqo%3D=0
> > and follow the instructions there.
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-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Dana Whitlow]

Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
possible
to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
terribly
surprised and disappointed.

Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?

Dana


On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
> tube. You can
> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
> that the fuel
> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Doug
> >
> > Is it possible to test its operation and
> > can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Millar
> > via time-nuts
> > Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> >
> > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
> > unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
> > There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> tested it
> > recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> is
> > in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach,
> CA.
> > 90806
> > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> resistance
> > standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable.
> >  Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date:
> 05/19/18
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the tube. 
You can 
look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is that 
the fuel 
gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. 

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Doug 
> 
> Is it possible to test its operation and 
> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug Millar
> via time-nuts
> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> 
> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not tested it
> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit is
> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach, CA.
> 90806
> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary resistance
> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable. 
>  Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: 05/19/18
> 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi Doug 

Is it possible to test its operation and 
can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug Millar
via time-nuts
Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not tested it
recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit is
in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach, CA.
90806
I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary resistance
standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable. 
 Thanks, Doug K6JEY
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: 05/19/18

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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Richard Solomon]

What would you estimate the shipping cost to Arizona (ZIP 85641) ?


Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook

From: time-nuts  on behalf of Doug Millar via 
time-nuts 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 9:04:17 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The unit 
was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then. There is 
usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not tested it recently. 
It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit is in great 
physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach, CA. 90806
I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary resistance 
standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable.
 Thanks, Doug K6JEY
___
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Re: [time-nuts] Improving ocxo temp control

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

One key point about the need for “zero gradient”: 

Crystals and many other components are quite sensitive to thermal gradients. 
Very small 
fractions of a degree (as a gradient ) can have significant impact on the 
frequency of an 
oscillator. 

One of many “interesting things” about fiddling about OCXO’s. 

The equally frustrating thing about this is that unless you can tease kind 
paper authors
into posting things ( thanks Rick !!) the papers are behind pay walls. I pretty 
much despise
that practice. Referencing papers that send people off to spend money ….not so 
much.

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 12:03 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>  wrote:
> 
> In my experience, the oven temperature controller is rarely
> the determining factor for static oven performance.  This article
> explains what the real determining factors are:
> 
> http://www.karlquist.com/oven.pdf
> 
> An analog oven temperature controller will be limited in
> its dynamics by how much capacitance you are able to
> design with.  Digital controllers get around this as well
> as having the capability of double integration for much
> better transient response.
> 
> Rick
> 
> On 5/18/2018 11:03 AM, Gilles Clement wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I am trying to improve performance of an OCXO.
>> Could you point me at a good design of a high resolution oven temperature 
>> controler please ? Preferably analog.
>> Thx much,
>> Gilles.
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Re: [time-nuts] Traveling to the US west coast

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

I hope you guys all get together to meet with Attila.
Unfortunately I will not be able to join this time, as I'd love to be at
IFCS too, the budget for it did not materialize this time.

I too need to get to SF bay area and Seattle area to meet the many
friends there, but this was not the time.

I did have the time to meet Attila att EFTF in Torino, I keep meeting
him in more places in the world, including Neuchatel, Zurich, Besancon,
Berlin/Potsdam, Paris, Torino... I really enjoy each time. So make sure
to find him out now that he gets in your kneck of the woods.

So, until I get to travel, I keep working on my backlog of articles.
Already sent one of and another one is shaping up (finally).

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/19/2018 05:32 AM, David Smith wrote:
> If Attilla is going to be in the Bay area I would like to come up and maybe 
> have dinner. I live in Fresno, 180 miles south of San Francisco.
> 
> Dave W6TE
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Pete Stephenson
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 8:29 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Traveling to the US west coast
> 
> Interestingly enough, I've moved from. Switzerland (where I've met Atilla) 
> and am now in the Bay Area. It's be great to meet up again. 
> 
> Even if Attila doesn't make it to the SF area, I'd be interested in getting 
> some local time nuts together. 
> 
> Cheers! 
> -Pete
> 
> On Fri, May 18, 2018, at 6:36 PM, Jerry Hancock wrote:
>> Are you going to be in San Francisco area?  Maybe we could get a time- 
>> nuts breakfast together with a couple of us.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 17, 2018, at 11:25 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Some of you might already know, I will fly to the US west coast to 
>>> attend IFCS. Afterwards, I will be in Seattle for a couple of days 
>>> (from 25th to 31st). If you are in the area and want to meet up, 
>>> please drop me an email (off-list).
>>>
>>>
>>> Attila Kinali
>>> --
>>> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
>>> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of 
>>> no use without that foundation.
>>> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson 
>>> ___
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>>> AmbvPimzxeevqo%3D=0
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> ___
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>> 1%7C0%7C636622973542611628=Fx2SdOpMmpuGCtrh0krWB1NbzdjIyAmbvPimz
>> xeevqo%3D=0
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> --
> Pete Stephenson
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