Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370 A to B conversion?

[Glen Hoag]

HP once offered a field conversion kit. One of my 5370Bs began life as an A. I 
believe that it was mostly in the firmware. 

John Seamons, j...@jks.com, developed a replacement processor board that uses a 
BeagleBone Black or BeagleBone Green to emulate the 6800 processor of the later 
5370s. (Early 5370s were powered by the Fairchild F8, but the firmware performs 
identically to the 6800 version.) It has substantially improved performance and 
an Ethernet interface. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2018, at 22:13, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> List,
> 
> Is it practical to try and convert a HP 5370A to the B model.  (I know that a 
> dedicated TN could do it.
> Regards,
> Perrier
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Re: [time-nuts] Smart Phone time display accuracy...?

[Glen Hoag]

Look at the line below the live time display. The data elements are the AM/PM 
indicator, a colored dot indicating the quality of the phone's time vs NTP 
time, the local time zone, followed by the offset. It's explained on the 
instructions that come up when you click the info button in the lower right 
corner of the screen. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 16:43, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> I have that app but don't see an option to display "the offset between NTP 
> time and the device's internal clock." Please guide me.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
>> On 3/18/2017 9:37 AM, Glen Hoag wrote:
>> On my iPhone, I run an NTP client, Emerald Time, that displays the offset 
>> between NTP time and the device's internal clock.
>> 
>> I'm on T-Mobile US and the offset is typically in the low tens of 
>> milliseconds or better.
>> 
>> It's certainly accurate enough as a clock where all I'm looking at is one 
>> minute resolution.
>> 
>> Glen Hoag
>> h...@hiwaay.net
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 09:52, John Hawkinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson  wrote on Fri, 17 Mar 2017
>>> at 14:38:17 -0700 in 
>>> :
>>> 
>>>>> AndroiTS GPS Test (V 1.48 Free) is good, but a battery hog I find.   On
>>>> THIS is why the phones don't really track time so well.  Not that they
>>>> can't but doing so requires battery power.
>>> This statement doesn't seem to be well-supported. I think it's
>>> basically untrue if we're talking about timing at the tens of
>>> millisecond level.  Anything more precise seems relatively useless in
>>> a smartphone without specialized mechanisms to get the time off of the
>>> phone.
>>> 
>>> A phone's GPS receiver takes a lot of battery. But GPS is not the primary
>>> mechanism that phones use get their time.
>>> 
>>> They get time from the cellular phone network (whether from the layer
>>> two timing information or at a higher layer with something like
>>> NTP). The effort required to keep a phone's clock in sync, even with a
>>> really bad local oscillator, is lost in the noise of all the other
>>> things the phone has to do. It's just not a battery issue.
>>> 
>>> The only reason modern smartphones keep bad time is because their
>>> designers can't be bothered to do better, or possibly the network is
>>> providing "bad" time to the phone. (Unless I'm missing something.)
>>> 
>>> --jh...@mit.edu
>>>  John Hawkinson
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Re: [time-nuts] Smart Phone time display accuracy...?

[Glen Hoag]

On my iPhone, I run an NTP client, Emerald Time, that displays the offset 
between NTP time and the device's internal clock. 

I'm on T-Mobile US and the offset is typically in the low tens of milliseconds 
or better. 

It's certainly accurate enough as a clock where all I'm looking at is one 
minute resolution. 

Glen Hoag
h...@hiwaay.net
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 09:52, John Hawkinson  wrote:
> 
> Chris Albertson  wrote on Fri, 17 Mar 2017
> at 14:38:17 -0700 in 
> :
> 
>>> AndroiTS GPS Test (V 1.48 Free) is good, but a battery hog I find.   On
> 
>> THIS is why the phones don't really track time so well.  Not that they
>> can't but doing so requires battery power. 
> 
> This statement doesn't seem to be well-supported. I think it's
> basically untrue if we're talking about timing at the tens of
> millisecond level.  Anything more precise seems relatively useless in
> a smartphone without specialized mechanisms to get the time off of the
> phone.
> 
> A phone's GPS receiver takes a lot of battery. But GPS is not the primary
> mechanism that phones use get their time.
> 
> They get time from the cellular phone network (whether from the layer
> two timing information or at a higher layer with something like
> NTP). The effort required to keep a phone's clock in sync, even with a
> really bad local oscillator, is lost in the noise of all the other
> things the phone has to do. It's just not a battery issue.
> 
> The only reason modern smartphones keep bad time is because their
> designers can't be bothered to do better, or possibly the network is
> providing "bad" time to the phone. (Unless I'm missing something.)
> 
> --jh...@mit.edu
>  John Hawkinson
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Re: [time-nuts] UCCM GPSDO

[Glen Hoag]

94V-0 is a UL flame retardancy test, if I recall correctly. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 12:34, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> 
> I was trying to guess what acronym (or backronym) UCCM might stand for.
> Then I did an E-bay search and found all the PC boards with "94V-0" in
> their part numbers for sale E-bay. Ha! Literally thousands of hits.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> I’d bet it’s an inventory label put on by their customer. If so a good bet
>> would be something
>> like China Unicom.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Larry McDavid  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know the origin of the "UCCM" designation for the Trimble
>> GPSDO boards recently popular here?
>>> 
>>> Is "UCCM" a valid model number, is it an acronym or is it something else?
>>> 
>>> I've packaged several of these Trimble boards and I've seen about four
>> others, none of which was marked "UCCM." I've seen one on-line picture of a
>> packaged board that shows a separate label with "UCCM" marked.
>>> 
>>> GPSCon already supports these "UCCM" boards and the next release of Lady
>> Heather is expected to support them also, so there is some acceptance of
>> this "UCCM" designation. But, what is the origin of this term and is it
>> valid?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Larry McDavid W6FUB
>>> Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] 10811 unsoldered fuse

[Glen Hoag]

The backwards UR logo indicates that the device is recognized under the 
Underwriters Laboratories component recognition program. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:16, Luca Dal Passo  wrote:
> 
> Hi Joe,
> the part is marked as follow:
> 
> mD NK 00
> 6109A RU
> 
> The letter R before U, is written as it was seen in a mirror.
> 
> Bye
> Luca
> 
> 
> 
> Il sabato 24 ottobre 2015, J. L. Trantham  ha scritto:
> 
>> Luca,
>> 
>> Any identifying marks on the part?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On
>> Behalf Of Luca Dal Passo
>> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 1:49 AM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] 10811 unsoldered fuse
>> 
>> Hi all,
>>   i have on my desk a disassembled 10811 for service. It has a thermal
>> fuse of the rectangular black type placed just above the IC. The leads are
>> plugged into two very small sockets on the pcb, they are not soldered.
>> Bye
>> Luca
>> iw2Lje
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Il giovedì 22 ottobre 2015, J. L. Trantham >
>> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> Good to know.  Thanks for the info.  Any idea of a source for that part?
>>> 
>>> I don't remember whether my fuse was soldered in or plugged in.
>>> Whatever it was, I replaced it the same way.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again.
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
>> ] On
>>> Behalf Of David G. McGaw
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:02 AM
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] 10811 unsoldered fuse
>>> 
>>> That probably is an original thermal cutout.  It matches ones I have
>>> found when repairing 10811As.
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10/20/15 7:59 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
 Dimitri,
 
 That clearly is not the 'original' thermal fuse that I found in my
>> 10811.
 Mine was a small, axial lead, cylindrical part.
 
 It looks like someone substituted a different part (is that a fuse
 or a
 cutoff?) and did a poor job soldering.  I think the temperature is
 correct though.  I'd have to look at the manual to know for sure.
 
 My 'fuse' failed and I replaced it.  All the soldering was OK on my
>> unit.
 
 Joe
 
 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
>> ]
 On
>>> Behalf Of
 Dimitri.p
 Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:32 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com  
 Subject: [Bulk] [time-nuts] 10811 unsoldered fuse
 
 How common is it to find undetected missing solder on 10811 parts
 after all these years?
 
 Dimitri
 
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Re: [time-nuts] What did I buy? Austron 1210D-03

[Glen Hoag]

Dan,
A Google search locates a manual and schematics at 
.

-Glen

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2015, at 16:35, Dan Watson  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just picked up an Austron 1210D-03 on eBay. It was an impulse purchase
> based on the apparent condition and the fact that it seems like a nice old
> clock/reference. I searched for old posts about this unit, found mostly
> discussion about the manual and battery pack. Hopefully the price I paid is
> ok.
> 
> Can anyone tell me about these units?
> 
> Also, there's one left:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUSTRON-MODEL-1210D-03-CRYSTAL-CLOCK-/261899740547
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] What did I buy? Austron 1210D-03

[Glen Hoag]

The manual describes it as a time transfer standard. It is equipped with NiCd 
batteries to facilitate operation of the unit while in transit, as well as the 
provision for external DC in. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2015, at 16:35, Dan Watson  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just picked up an Austron 1210D-03 on eBay. It was an impulse purchase
> based on the apparent condition and the fact that it seems like a nice old
> clock/reference. I searched for old posts about this unit, found mostly
> discussion about the manual and battery pack. Hopefully the price I paid is
> ok.
> 
> Can anyone tell me about these units?
> 
> Also, there's one left:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUSTRON-MODEL-1210D-03-CRYSTAL-CLOCK-/261899740547
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3812 Diag port data?

[Glen Hoag]

I found a reference to the Lucent documentation for the RFTG-u/KS-24361:

401-660-129 Base Station CDMA Reference Frequency Timing Generator 
(Universal) (RFTG-u) and GPS Antenna System Description, Operation, 
Installation, and Maintenance


I haven't found the documentation itself, though it's probably 
available to registered users of the Alcatel-Lucent website.


--Glen Hoag
  h...@hiwaay.net

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system

[Glen Hoag]

Dave,
The seller is offering the REF-0 and REF-1 units at $75 each plus 
shipping.  When I searched for "Lucent KS-24361", I found the 
original item with both, as well as the individual units.


--Glen Hoag
  h...@hiwaay.net

At 10:22 AM 10/20/2014, you wrote:

Stu,
Many thanks for the heads-up on htese units.  Great deals.

Can you advise the size of these units?  Are they full-size 19" rack 
mount or the half-size units like the Z3801A?
Can the REF-1 unit (the one with the GPS receiver) be operated 
separately from the REF-0 unit?


There is a mod on Didier's site to add the 10 MHz output to the 
RFTGm unit at 
http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/download.php?file=05)_GPS_Timing/Lucent_RFTGm_RFTGm-II-XO_GPSDO_modification_to_add_10MHz.pdf. 
I don't know if the mod will apply to the units on Ebay right now, 
but it's quite possible that it does.


Cheers,
Dave M


Stewart Cobb wrote:

Fellow time-nuts,

This (long) post is a review of the HP/Symmetricom Z3810A (or Z3810AS)
GPSDO system built for Lucent circa 2000.  I wrote it because I looked
for more information before I bought one, and couldn't find much.
It's relevant because (as of this writing), you can buy a full system
on the usual auction site for about $150 plus shipping.  For those of
you lamenting the dearth of cheap Thunderbolts, this looks like one of
the best deals going.  The description of these objects does not
include "GPSDO", so time-nuts may have missed it.  Search for one of
the part numbers in the subject line and you should find it.

So what is it?  It's a dual GPSDO built by HP as a reference
(Redundant Frequency and Time Generator, or RFTG) for a Lucent
cell-phone base station, built to Lucent's spec KS-24361. Internally,
it's a close cousin of a later-model Z3805A.  Externally, it looks to
be almost a drop-in replacement for the earlier RFTG system built to
Lucent's spec KS-24019.  That was a redundant system containing one
rubidium (LPRO, in the one I have) and one OCXO in two
almost-identical boxes.  That spec went through several revisions with
slightly different nameplates and presumably slightly different
internals.  You can generally find one or two examples on the auction
site (search for RFTG or KS-24019).



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Re: [time-nuts] How are iPhones' clocks set under LTE?

[Glen Hoag]

FWIW, since I downloaded Emerald Time a couple days ago, I have not observed an 
offset of my iPhone's clock from UTC(NTP) of greater than one second. My 
carrier is T-Mobile. I'll keep watching to see if it stays this good. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [time-nuts] How are iPhones' clocks set under LTE?

[Glen Hoag]

As someone who crosses time zone boundaries with relative frequency, I can tell 
you that the iPhone does indeed set it's time zone automatically, based on 
information the phone gets from the cellular network. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 4, 2014, at 11:49, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 5:38 AM, BIll Ezell  wrote:
>> 
>> Clearly, just using something like NTP directly isn't all that useful
>> because you have to know your physical location to know what timezone
>> correction to appl
> 
> I'm pretty sure you have to set the time zone that is displayed.  It
> does not change based on location.  Although one col writ an app that
> would do that.  There are MANY clock apps some show multiple time
> zones.  Interannly the phone uses GMT (offset zero)
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FSCM 38243 Power Distribution Module

[Glen Hoag]

FSCM 38243 is the manufacturer information.  FSCM is the Federal 
Supply Code for Manufacturers, which appears to be a subset of CAGE 
(Commercial and Government Entity) codes maintained by the Defense 
Logistics Agency.  FSCM 38243 appears to be PG Electronics Ltd, 
currently of Schomberg Ontario Canada.  171-0100-048 is a part 
number, while the serial number is blank, from the photo provided.


The current incarnation of PG Electronics builds cell phone booster 
systems for buildings.  However, their web site contains the following:


"In keeping with our past support policy for ALL customers, 
government and military programs, PG also continues to support all 
our older products since 1975."


You might contact them at http://www.pgelectronics.com and ask for a 
spec sheet.


--Glen Hoag
  h...@hiwaay.net

At 11:54 PM 3/1/2014, you wrote:

Does anybody knows if FSCM 38243 8-way P/D module is suitable for 
10MHZ frequency ? The module I have, has no other information on it 
except Serial No.: 171-0100-048. Looks like its old Minicircuits 
product. But I am not sure.  I am planing to connect 10Mhz GPSDO output to it.


--
WBW,

V.P.



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Re: [time-nuts] Loran in the US

[Glen Hoag]

Even with yesterday's electronics, many Loran stations outside the US 
were operating under remote control, with a single control station 
managing multiple chains.


--Glen

At 03:39 PM 3/4/2012, you wrote:

With today's electronics and 'puters, a new system could be designed to
operate essentially without local staffing, IMO. The biggest problem would
be getting antennas with reasonable radiation efficiency at 100 kHz,
without using 1000' plus towers.

One option might be more, smaller, cheaper stations.

-John

=


> On 03/04/2012 10:02 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
>> Antonio wrote:
>>
>>> Now, that the Loran C ressurection seems to be probable
>>
>> I suspect that it is not yet anywhere near probable -- more likely there
>> is now some remote possibility of a ressurection if many difficult
>> preconditions (including Congressional action) are all met.
>
> Rebuilding the network and finance the cost of running it will be a
> challenge. This is why tearing down the old network was such a waste of
> money. If they seriously considers it, maybe they have learned a hard
> lesson and at least considers it and is ready to bite the bullet.
>
> A key worry would be if they chose to use a non-compatible coding such
> that existing Loran-C equipment needs to be scrapped anyway.
>
> It would be interesting to see how it plays out.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Questions about Austron 5000 Loran C receiver

[Glen Hoag]

In searching the archives of the International Loran Association 
<http://www.loran.org>, I note that Austron offered two versions of 
the 5000.  There was the station monitor version that was used as 
part of the system to apply time corrections as well as a marine 
system, both controlled by a PDP-8.


--Glen Hoag
  h...@hiwaay.net

At 10:17 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:

Well
A couple of things. They are not the gov. They go home on the weekends.
So do take a listen to 100KC during the week.
I looked at the austron 5000 it was a loran station monitor. What a beasty
it actually is.
Though the nixies are nice. I guess my loran simulator would drive it.
But can't imagine what it must actually weight.
My older austron 2000 is heavy and a bear to operate.
Regards
Paul.

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Andy Lokken  wrote:

> Hi Paul:
>
> It was your reports of the Great Lakes chain that got me interested in
> this. I live in St. Paul, Minnesota, so I am hopeful of hearing it here. I
> have a couple other LF receivers with which to try to hear Loran C, so I
> still have options.
>
> Obviously, before I invest much in this, I want to see that the feds have a
> long term interest in maintaining Loran again, and especially the GL chain.
>
> -Andy
>
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:28 AM, paul swed  wrote:
>
> > That is indeed interesting because the only rcvr I knew that needed a
> pdp 8
> > was the older actual station monitoring units.
> > I would strongly believe if you know what the 5000 wants these days its
> > very reasonable to emulate the control system.
> > That said in the US the only GRI I could monitor was the great lakes
> chain
> > 89700.
> > It was on and off the air as you might expect for a test.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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