[time-nuts] TNS-BUF

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

Is there any TNS-BUF Isolation Amplifier boards available out there?

Regards,
VS
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Re: [time-nuts] PN on internal/external references and Cross correlation

[Vasco Soares]

Thanks for clarifying this issue! I may use references with close-in PN 
(1Hz-1kHz) 10 dB noisier than the DUT, however as you said it may 
require an overnight run for 1 Hz offset, which isn't the nice part... I 
assume then that speeding up the measurement process can only be 
obtained using references sources at least quieter than the DUT.


Em 2017-09-28 23:29, John Miles escreveu:
In a PN measurement system with a dual channel cross correlation is 
there a

simple rule of thumb for how low should be the PN of the (external)
references compared to the DUT? (even with a 20 dB noise floor
improvement with 1 cross correlations)


If you have two references, then it's OK for them to be somewhat
noisier than the DUT.  Their contribution will average out of the
cross spectrum over time just like the rest of the instrument noise.
There is no penalty in accuracy, only in measurement time.

Given a choice, you're better off using references with good close-in
noise performance rather than good broadband performance, since it
takes longer for those FFT segments to converge.  You can achieve 20
dB of noise floor improvement at offsets >10 kHz within a few minutes,
but a 20-dB improvement at 1 Hz might require running overnight or
even longer.


In the case of the references
have an equal noise contribution compared to the DUT will the results 
suffer

from loss of accuracy?


With two references it's not a problem.  If you have only one
reference source -- or if your measurement setup doesn't do cross
correlation at all -- then the reference needs to be at least 10 dB
quieter than the expected DUT performance to keep its contribution
below 0.5 dB.

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC


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[time-nuts] PN on internal/external references and Cross correlation

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

 

In a PN measurement system with a dual channel cross correlation is there a 
simple rule of thumb for how low should be the PN of the (external) references 
compared to the DUT? (even with a 20 dB noise floor improvement with 1 
cross correlations). In the case of the references have an equal noise 
contribution compared to the DUT will the results suffer from loss of accuracy?



Thanks!

 

Regards,

VS
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 rubidium lamp module failure

[Vasco Soares]

I agree with Arthur. It's not possible that such temperature had happened. 
My unit had a severe board and components electrochemical corrosion probably 
caused by a mix of factors as flux residues action and the pcb coating that 
simple dissapear. I think that all together under hot conditions in a small 
enclosure is the most probably reason to that failure. Also, in picture it 
can be seen clearly many spots with electrochemical corrosion.




- Original Message - 
From: "Arthur Dent" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 1:06 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] PRS10 rubidium lamp module failure



..."apparently got hot enough to create a localized thermal runaway in
its lead wire."

I don't think that explanation is correct. There are no signs of
discoloration
caused by overheating anywhere else in the photo and yet the lead wire
has apparently melted as you say. That would probably require at least a
2000 degree temp which would cause lots of damage. Are there any signs
of chemical contamination that could have caused this? Not the same but
In older equipment that had leaky Hg batteries I've seen similar damage.

-Arthur
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 rubidium lamp module failure

[Vasco Soares]

Hi,

I had the same problem a few years ago. What kind of advice are your 
searching for to that "usual" failure?


Regards,
VS

- Original Message - 
From: "Stewart Cobb" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 11:47 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] PRS10 rubidium lamp module failure



R901, on the far right, is shown on the schematic as "air heater". It
apparently got hot enough to create a localized thermal runaway in its 
lead

wire. There was ample evidence of arcing. A half-melted bit of wire fell
away before I could take the picture.  Without that heater working, the
lamp is apparently too cold to start.

Cheers!
--Stu








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[time-nuts] Recommendations on a reliable Rb Osc

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

I'm interested on a 10 MHz Rb Oscillator. Does anyone have good advice's 
on a particular model and brand?

I prefer a new one with a good price but second hand is also welcome;)

Regards,
Vasco
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Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz Square to Sine Wave Conversion

[Vasco Soares]

Hi,

What distortion level would you like to achieve?

Regards,
Vasco Soares


Em 2015-07-16 18:49, skipp Isaham via time-nuts escreveu:

re: 10MHz Square to Sine Wave Conversion

The GPSDO I recently acquired outputs a 10 MHz square wave. I'd like
to convert it to a sine wave and I am looking for suggestions and info 
re
any reasonable pre-made circuits and/or boards. No sense reinventing 
the

wheel if I can avoid it.

Otherwise I will start from scratch and make a new wheel

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Regards,

skipp

skipp025 at yahoo dot com

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Re: [time-nuts] Signal/Phase noise analyzer

[Vasco Soares]

Thank you all for your reply's!

It is for personal use, not a business. The budget it is very tight. I guess 
I can't find anything less that 2000-3000 euros even a second hand or a 
refurbished model.

The main problem is that I'm starting from scratch...
I found http://www.anapico.com/index.php/products/phase-noise-test-systems 
and the cheapest model (apph6000-is400) fits my needs (-160 dBc @ 100 Hz it 
is low enough) but it is too expensive (an outrageous of 18000 euros!). 
Their advantage, as in others, is to be a self contained analyzer with 
internal references.


I don't know the price range of the Holzworth analyzer's but surely they are 
affordable compared with the one above. The model HA7402B needs two tunable 
LO, which I don't have, so a lot of investment has to be done.


I can consider any setup as long as the above requirements are fulfilled and 
it is an affordable solution otherwise I've to wait for gather enough funds 
for this kind of investment.


Regards,
Vasco Soares





- Original Message - 
From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Signal/Phase noise analyzer



Hi

Is this for a business or for a basement? Basement

Are you looking for new self contained gear or combinations of used gear?



Is a cross comparison device ok or do you need a stand alone device?

How low do you need to go how fast? Is -190 dbc/ Hz low enough? Is a 24 
hour run to long?


Lots of variables….

Bob

On Apr 22, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Vasco Soares vesoa...@deea.isel.ipl.pt 
wrote:


Hi All,



I'm searching for the less expensive signal analyzer to perform phase 
noise measurements on OCXO's. There is no need to go above 400 MHz - 1 
GHz. I'm particularly interested on low frequency offset and good close 
in phase noise specs. Any recommendations?




Best regards,

Vasco Soares
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[time-nuts] Signal/Phase noise analyzer

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

 

I'm searching for the less expensive signal analyzer to perform phase noise 
measurements on OCXO's. There is no need to go above 400 MHz - 1 GHz. I'm 
particularly interested on low frequency offset and good close in phase noise 
specs. Any recommendations?

 

Best regards,

Vasco Soares
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Re: [time-nuts] Are these PRS10's worth it ?

[Vasco Soares]

Hi

I had two PRS10 units that failed after one year of use. It was not just the 
lamp, also the RF section that excites the lamp had problems. I think it is 
too expensive...


Regards,
Vasco Soares



- Original Message - 
From: Tim t...@skybase.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:22 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Are these PRS10's worth it ?



Hi all,

Been on the lookout for a PRS10 to build a GPSDO+RB arrangement and I see 
these...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanford-Research-Systems-SRS-PRS10-Rubidium-Freq-Standard-12344101-08-no-lock-/231435472155

Is this just a reheat-the-bulb fix or do you suspect something more ?

Not knowing much about the PRS10, I'm just wondering if its worth the ri$k 
:)


thanks

Tim

--
VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSATVK

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Re: [time-nuts] Linear voltage regulator hints...

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

Take a look on the low noise 1.5A LDO regulator LT1963 and 500 mA LT1763. 
Voltage regulation depend on how good is the circuit behaviour with respect 
to Noise, PSRR, Line regulation and Load regulation. For instance some LT 
regulators like LT1117, 1085 and 1086 have  1% of Line and Load regulation 
but have worst noise specs than LT1963, LT1763, MCP1825, MCP1826.


Regards,
Vasco Soares



- Original Message - 
From: Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com

To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Linear voltage regulator hints...



Hi All,

Thanks for the responses. I had a feeling the answer wouldn't be good, but 
was hoping someone would have a suggestion. There are currently a bunch of 
regulators in the 'system'. If there were some really good regulator out 
there, the shotgun approach would apply...


Of course it is difficult to provide a good reference and pass transistor 
on the same die, but it was worth asking.



Bert,

The thought of temp control of the regulators crossed my mind. Not 
planning on going there unless I need to. But it was a thought, maybe if 
all else fails...



Bob,

 There are more modern parts with lower close in noise. Linear
Technology has a number of them. Your filter caps take out the broadband 
stuff, close in is all that really matters.



Got any hints on which ones? Maybe a nice quiet regulator can be 
'disciplined' with a better reference.


Thanks,
Dan

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Re: [time-nuts] Clock level conversion 5V - 3.3V

[Vasco Soares]

Hi,

More than a matter of personal taste avoiding a resistive divider using a 
active circuit you could benefit from its low output impedance. With a 
resistive divider there could be some issues in terms of impedance matching 
when a load it is present but as been said it all depends on how good that 
level translation should be.


Regards,
Vasco Soares


- Original Message - 
From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clock level conversion 5V - 3.3V




vesoa...@deea.isel.ipl.pt said:

I would suggest some 3.3V logic (inverter) gate with 5V tolerant inputs
from Little Logic TI portfolio. There are buffered and unbuffered gate
available.


What's the advantage of a chip over a pair of resistors?

hau...@keteu.org said:
I have seen a resistive divider used in a similar application, but 
wondered

if I could save the couple dozen mA they were spending.


Power might be one.  If it's a long enough run that you need a 
termination,
then the power doesn't cost anything extra.  If it's only a few inches, 
you

can use higher values of resistance to save the power.

For a given value of resistance and a specific chip, there should be some
crossover frequency where the power of the chip matches the power of the
resistors.  It might be fun to play with the numbers.



--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Clock level conversion 5V - 3.3V

[Vasco Soares]

I would suggest some 3.3V logic (inverter) gate with 5V tolerant inputs 
from Little Logic TI portfolio. There are buffered and unbuffered gate 
available.




Em 2014-09-30 22:46, Mark Haun escreveu:
Is there a best way to do this without adding phase noise?  For 
example, a
5V OCXO into an ADF4002, or a 3.3V or even 1.8V logic input.  Is a 
resistive

divider the way to go?

Mark

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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp Module Needed

[Vasco Soares]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm aware that the tantalum capacitor is on of the weak points of the RF 
amplifer that excites the lamp. After testing the unit and using the 
monitoring software available I found that the problem relies on that 
specific part of the circuit. In fact the RF unit was burned like the 
tantalum capacitor you are refering. Last year I rebuild that circuit 
section interely with high quality components with good temperature 
reliability replacing the RF transistor, porcelain capacitors and metal film 
resistors. The lamp was heated up as well. The unit worked for about 6 
months. Now I found again that the signal strenght received by the photocell 
has droped below the acceptable value so there is no more I could do except 
to send it back to SRS for lamp replacement...


Regards,
Vasco Soares


- Original Message - 
From: brucekar...@aol.com

To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp Module Needed



Vasco,

As Brooke said it is unlikely there are spare PRS10 lamp modules found 
outside the manufacturer.  The probable reason is that when the PRS10 
units are assembled certain adjustments to the firmware are necessary such 
as the starting level and final bias of the FET oscillator transistor.  As 
far as I know, SRS has not revealed how to access to these factory 
settings.


It might be possible to repair your lamp assembly.  One point of failure 
is the Tantalum capacitor found in the lamp assembly.  Another possibility 
is that the heater resistor may have changed value or opened.  Although it 
looks daunting, it is possible to replace the FET power transistor; 
however, after replacing the transistor in one unit, I found the 
transistor's characteristics were a little different than the original and 
the operating parameters were not right.  I considered adding some 
external resistors to shift the biasing, but finally decided to try 
another transistor with somewhat different characteristics.  But in this 
second try I damaged the board.


If the rubidium bulb assembly is suffering from old age, it might be 
possible to improve it with a heat gun as discussed on this listt several 
times in the past.  The bulb is cemented in place, but it might be 
possible to remove and replace it.


Bruce, KG6OJI
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp module needed

[Vasco Soares]

Someone could have a working lamp with a defective hardware but I know it is 
unlikely The PRS10 unit will be sent to ThinkSRS.

Thanks Bob!


- Original Message - 
From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp module needed



Hi

I doubt that a working lamp exists outside a working Rb.  You may do 
better to simply get a new PRS10.


Bob

On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, Vasco Soares vesoa...@deea.isel.ipl.pt 
wrote:



Hi,

I need a new rubidium lamp module for the PRS10 unit. Does anyone have a 
spare module?


Regards,
Vasco Soares
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp module needed

[Vasco Soares]

I've asked ThinkSRS a few months and they don't sell spare parts. I've no 
choice but send the PRS10 unit to them.

Thanks Brooke!



- Original Message - 
From: Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp module needed



Hi Vasco:

Have you asked  http://www.thinksrs.com/

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html

Vasco Soares wrote:

Hi,

I need a new rubidium lamp module for the PRS10 unit. Does anyone have a 
spare module?


Regards,
Vasco Soares
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[time-nuts] PRS10 Lamp module needed

[Vasco Soares]

Hi,

I need a new rubidium lamp module for the PRS10 unit. Does anyone have a 
spare module?


Regards,
Vasco Soares
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Re: [time-nuts] Sine to square wave converter Phase Noise

[Vasco Soares]

Hi,

What comparator did you use in your evaluation? An 74AC04, 74AC14 or other 
LT, AD, etc?


Regards,
Vasco Soares



- Original Message - 
From: br...@ko4bb.com

To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:55 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Sine to square wave converter Phase Noise


Recently I have been comparing the phase noise of the HOlzworth HX4210 and 
the

LTC7957-4.
I have found that the performance of these devices is comparable with a 
10MHz

sinewave input with a PN noise floor below -160dBc/Hz.
For offsets below 100Hz the LTC6957-4 is quieter and for offsets below 
50Hz or

so is lower than that of my measurement setup.
I merely mounted the LTC evaluation board in a diecast metal box to reduce 
the
effect of air currents on the LTC7957-4 and used an ultra low noise 3.3V 
power
supply (Abracon) to minimise the power supply contribution to the measured 
phase

noise.
Achieving a phase noise performance equal to that on the datasheet was
relatively easy.
In fact for low offsets the phase noise is lower than that shown on the
datasheet.

I've also measured the phase noise of a comparator based sine to CMOS 
converter

and its PN floor is about 20dB higher than that of the LTC6957.
On completion of measurements PN plots for the various sine to square 
conveters

tested will be added to the web pages I maintain on Didiers site..


Bruce
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[time-nuts] Sine or TTL signal transmission for low phase noise?

[Vasco Soares]

Hi!

Taking a 10MHz signal from a rubidium clock to an external device it is better 
to use 0.5-1Vrms sine wave or TTL? A 75 ohm coaxial cable will be used with 
just 1 meter long. In any case the receiver will be made around a unbuffered 
gate with self biasing (it seems that the 74AC type has better phase noise 
performance, as stated on http://www.ham-radio.com/sbms/LPRO-101.pdf. Circuit 
behaviour with other series like VHC, LV are unkown, at least for me!). Anyone 
have experience on EMI/RFI issues and phase noise performance under these 
circumstances?

Regards,
VS
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Re: [time-nuts] 'CPLDs for clock dividers' Thread

[Vasco Soares]

Hi All,

With respect to jitter does anyone compared the solutions using a PLL or DCM 
on FPGAs for clock dividing? For instance, from 10 MHz to 44.1 kHz which 
would be the best option? Does a CPLD supersedes those FPGA functionalities 
for that kind of operation?


Best regards,
Vasco Soares


- Original Message - 
From: brent evers brent.ev...@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 'CPLDs for clock dividers' Thread


Precious little to add to this, just to confirm that back in another life
at Watkins Johnson (early 90's), we used CPLD's for low phase noise
dividers all the time.  My work at the time was focused on everything but
the divider.

Brent


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:


Hi

If you disable all the internal clocks (normally fairly easy) and your
supply is clean and it’s a modern high speed part, you can get into the
high 150’s to low 160’s on a 10 MHz output with a CPLD.

If you have one of those wonderful old designs where the charge pump
clocks (or what ever) stay on all the time, you will be in the 120’s to
130’s.

Bob

On Jan 5, 2014, at 9:11 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. 
j...@westmorelandengineering.com wrote:

 Hello All,

 I was looking at the archives - what was the outcome of this:

 Thanks to everyone for their advice.  I bought a CoolRunner II
 development board (only $39!) and will let you know how it goes.

 Matt

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Matt Ettus boyscout at gmail.com
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts wrote:
 * Does anyone have any experience using CPLDs for very low phase noise
 ** dividers?  You can get an XC9536XL from Xilinx for around $1, and I
 ** thought it would make a good divide by 2 through 10 device.
 ** Matt*

 A lot of the discussion focused on the difficulties of downloading the
tools for
 Altera or Xilinx - the Max II family from Altera was recommended - but
there was
 no apparent outcome or resolution to this thread - seemingly.

 Does anyone have that CPLD recommendation?

 Thanks,
 John Westmoreland
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