Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
Actually, Audiophools don't care about 44.1Khz anymore. They care about 96, 192 and even 384 Khz sampling rates. John On 6/19/2013 10:09 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what is the best way to obtain 44.1KHz from a 5-10MHz reference. (10,000,000 / 100,000 ) * 3 * 147 = 44.1K These are PPL chips that can do this. change 147 to 160 and you can clock the 48K rate for video. I hope I got the numbers right. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
From A Song of Reproduction by Michael Flanders Donald Swann: All the highest notes neither sharp nor flat, The ear can't hear as high as that. Still, I ought to please any passing bat, With my high fidelity. From the LP At the Drop of a HAT, which is so old that the artists note that it was being recorded in STEREO, in 1957 or so. Good to see that audiophiles are not a new phenomenon! If you haven't heard of Flanders Swann they perpetrated the song with the lyric Mud, mud, glorious mud... On 20 June 2013 16:18, John Marvin jm-t...@themarvins.org wrote: Actually, Audiophools don't care about 44.1Khz anymore. They care about 96, 192 and even 384 Khz sampling rates. John On 6/19/2013 10:09 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what is the best way to obtain 44.1KHz from a 5-10MHz reference. (10,000,000 / 100,000 ) * 3 * 147 = 44.1K These are PPL chips that can do this. change 147 to 160 and you can clock the 48K rate for video. I hope I got the numbers right. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Tom Harris celephi...@gmail.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
$349.00 for a power strip made in China. And my wife calls me crazy for having so many scopes. -Don == -Original Message- From: Peter Gottlieb Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:46 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets. Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
How about a Rb or Cs standard to control the sampling rate of the DACs in your CD player so you always have perfect pitch and no wow or flutter? Oh, it's already being done and sold to Audiophools never mind! -John Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
Rb or Cs locked 50/60 Hz AC power might still be an available niche although I didn't do much of a search. Alan On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:52 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: How about a Rb or Cs standard to control the sampling rate of the DACs in your CD player so you always have perfect pitch and no wow or flutter? Oh, it's already being done and sold to Audiophools never mind! -John Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
I wonder what is the best way to obtain 44.1KHz from a 5-10MHz reference. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:14:17 -0600 From: alanh...@gmail.com To: j...@quikus.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets. Rb or Cs locked 50/60 Hz AC power might still be an available niche although I didn't do much of a search. Alan On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:52 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: How about a Rb or Cs standard to control the sampling rate of the DACs in your CD player so you always have perfect pitch and no wow or flutter? Oh, it's already being done and sold to Audiophools never mind! -John Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
And there is your product. The GPSDO derived 44.1 kHz reference! I only ask for a 10% royalty.:) On Jun 19, 2013, at 20:54, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what is the best way to obtain 44.1KHz from a 5-10MHz reference. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:14:17 -0600 From: alanh...@gmail.com To: j...@quikus.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets. Rb or Cs locked 50/60 Hz AC power might still be an available niche although I didn't do much of a search. Alan On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:52 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: How about a Rb or Cs standard to control the sampling rate of the DACs in your CD player so you always have perfect pitch and no wow or flutter? Oh, it's already being done and sold to Audiophools never mind! -John Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what is the best way to obtain 44.1KHz from a 5-10MHz reference. (10,000,000 / 100,000 ) * 3 * 147 = 44.1K These are PPL chips that can do this. change 147 to 160 and you can clock the 48K rate for video. I hope I got the numbers right. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version:
