Re: [time-nuts] 3GHz prescaler for Pendulum counters

2015-11-15 Thread GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
Hi Arthur
 
Thanks for the feedback, that's an interesting find and obviously  
something to keep in mind.
 
As you know Pawel originally designed the prescaler for the  CNT85/PM6685, 
although in earlier Ebay listings he did comment that it also  worked for 
the CNT80/PM6680, and taking a look at the schematics I can see  now that the 
detection circuit you refer to for the CNT81 is different  to that in the 
CNT80 and also to that in later models.
In the CNT80 the selection resistors were returned directly to  ground, 
that 100K common resistor was introduced with the  CNT81 but was promptly 
dropped again for the CNT85 onwards.
It would seem, in this respect anyway, that you drew the short  straw:-)
 
Interesting too to see your comments regarding orientation, although from  
the CNT85 onwards this again seems to have been something that was  
standardised.
 
Glad to hear you got it sorted though, I'm still more than happy with mine  
and certainly agree that it's a really good deal.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 

 Just a note to say that I bought one of these
 prescaler boards for my CNT-81. One problem is
 the way the board mounts in the CNT-81 the "in"
 connector is toward the back instead of toward
 the front like some of the other counters and I
 had to make a longer input cable. Pawel does
 now know this and maybe a different cable can
 be included for these counters in case you can't
 make one. Be sure to check on this so there
 aren't any surprises...

 
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[time-nuts] 3GHz prescaler for Pendulum counters

2015-11-14 Thread Arthur Dent
 Just a note to say that I bought one of these
prescaler boards for my CNT-81. One problem is
the way the board mounts in the CNT-81 the "in"
connector is toward the back instead of toward
the front like some of the other counters and I
had to make a longer input cable. Pawel does
now know this and maybe a different cable can
be included for these counters in case you can't
make one. Be sure to check on this so there
aren't any surprises.

 When I put the prescaler board in and connected
a signal it didn't divide properly. After getting
the service manual and checking the schematic I
found the problem was the way the motherboard
was set up to detect which prescaler was installed.
There are resistors of 10K, 20K, and 40K going
from the 3 ID pins (16,14,and 12) to a common
100K to ground. On Pawel's board for the PM6681/
CNT-81 pin 16 is jumpered high to +5 to select
the correct divisor ratio with pins 14 and 12 not
connected so they should be low. Unfortunately
the resistors on the motherboard feed the +5VDC
from pin 16 back through the resistors to pins
14 and 12 so all 3 pins are high and this screws
up the ratio. If you have the service manual go
to the schematic "Logic Circuits, unit 1 sheet
2(6)" and look at grid C 11 to see what I mean.
I had to tie pin 14 and pin 12 low to make the
prescaler work as it should & it does work great!
I hate to think what an OEM board would cost so
this is a really good deal and I recommend it.

-Arthur
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Re: [time-nuts] 3GHz prescaler for Pendulum counters

2015-10-15 Thread GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
So much for paranoid file hosting systems with OTT encryption!,  the URL 
for the photos got truncated in the copying:-(
 
Just adding "g" to the end of the link in my original post should suffice,  
or here, with a bit of luck:-), is the full link...
 
   
https://mega.nz/#!qNYiDCzC!HHWEpI8TUDW6VO_fuyk34uU6Tr4V-pXRLru-DMtaq2g

 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] 3GHz prescaler for Pendulum counters

2015-10-15 Thread cfo
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:36:01 -0400, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts wrote:

>  that they
> also work with the PM6680, 

I mounted a 3GHz prescaler in my PM6680B a month ago.

And the only thing Pavel told me to be carefull off. Was that Vmax was 
5v. as opposed to the original that was 12v i think.
He also mentioned that the board prob. would go to 3.5GHz

I tried it out with my Agilent E4432B that max out @3GHz , and it worked 
excellent. 

CFO
Denmark

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[time-nuts] 3GHz prescaler for Pendulum counters

2015-10-14 Thread GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
A couple of years ago, my oh my doesn't time rush by when you're having  
fun?:-), I posted a recommendation for 3GHz prescalers from Pawel Witkowski, 
an  Ebay seller in Poland, for the HP 53131 and 53132 counters.
 
I'm now very happy to report that Pawel has also produced a similar  
prescaler for the Pendulum range of counters, his Ebay ID is pa-fko and a  
typical 
auction is 111794690250.
 
Pawel actually lists these as being for the Philips/Fluke PM6685,  this 
being the counter he designed them for, and with a comment  that they also work 
with the PM6680, but those are rebadged Pendulum  counters and a look at 
the service manuals suggested that  the original  Pendulum prescalers were 
likely to be a one module fits all solution, and  this has turned out to be the 
case.
 
For the past few weeks I've been using a pair of these modules,  one fitted 
to a CNT90 and the other to a Tekktronix FCA3100, which is a  rebadged 
CNT91, and I'm very happy with the results.
Once installed the counter automatically recognises that it now has an  
input "C", and that's all there is to it.
The built in statistical plotting options work for input C just as they do  
for inputs A and B, but note that the level measuring functions of inputs A 
and  B are hardware dependent and aren't available for input C, this also 
applies to  the original Pendulum prescalers.
 
There's a graph of measured sensitivity and "application area" included  
with the auction photos and I'm seeing results that agree closely with that. 
Up  to 1GHz I've run tests using a Marconi 2022E signal generator and above 
that  I've been playing with a Chinese clone of the Anolog ADF4351 evaluation 
kit. I  don't have any independent means of checking the levels from the 
ADF4351 kit  above 1.5GHz but I've no reason to believe it's not performing as 
it should,  certainly the frequency accuracy is as expected.
 
The service manuals indicate that later models have extra pins on  the 
prescaler connector but the functions of the rear sixteen pins have  remained 
unchanged, and ensuring that the prescaler is mounted to the rear  of the 
connector, regardless of the number of pins that leaves spare, is all  that's 
required.
 
 
A couple of points to note, the mounting  clips shown in the auction photos 
are already fitted to the PM6685 but  were not fitted to my CNT90 or 
FCA3100, so these had to be supplied with the  prescaler. Anyone ordering these 
should make it clear what counter they will  fitted to.
There are two predrilled 2.5mm diameter holes in the  front panel for the N 
connector that will accept M2.5 screws but the shape of  the casting does 
not allow any nuts to be fitted.
The prescaler board is provided with self tapping  screws, although I chose 
to run an M3 tap through the holes and use  standard screws, but I suspect 
the best solution would  probably be to use M3 Taptite screws.

 
For anyone who might be interested I've uploaded a file containing a set of 
 similar photos for each counter showing stages of the installation, and 
also  some photos of the counters under test and the ADF4351 module..
   
https://mega.nz/#!qNYiDCzC!HHWEpI8TUDW6VO_fuyk34uU6Tr4V-pXRLru-DMtaq2
 
Apologies for the messy looking link, it's nothing  sinister, just that the 
site encrypts all files and most of that link is the  decryption key.
 
For these tests, both counters and both frequency sources  were referenced 
to the same Trimble Thunderbolt.
 
At 1GHz, using the Marconi 2022 signal generator,  I checked sensitivity 
down to -40dBm, possibly could have gone lower but  didn't see too much need 
for that:-)
 

The ADF4351 evaluation kit only has selectable output levels of +5, +2, -1, 
 and -4 dBm, so for higher frequencies I took a different approach  and 
tested for the maximum frequency that would display properly on the  counter at 
levels of -4dBm, as indicated by the ADF4351 software, and also  at -7dBm 
and -10dBm by adding attenuators.
The module was mounted a very short distance from the  counter using 
semi-rigid coax  to an SMA to N adapter, again  this can be seen in the photos, 
 
and 23GHz rated Aeroflex  3dB SMA attenuators were added directly between the 
synthesiser module and  the counter input, although this is not shown.
 
Both counters worked fine at 3.00 GHz with the -4dBm signal and whilst  
there was a difference between the two counters as the frequency increased  
it's obvious that both would have worked fine at 3.00GHz with the -7dBm  signal 
also and very close at -10dBm.
It might be interesting to swap the modules between counters, to  see if 
that has any effect on the overall sensitivity at higher  frequencies but it's 
not something I've tried so far, and I don't see it as  a problem either 
way.
 
With the FCA3100 (CNT91), the limits I measured were.
at -4dBm    3.500GHz
at -7dBm    3.400GHz
at -10dBm  ---  3.325 GHz
 
With the CNT90, the limits I measured were..
at -4dBm    3.200GHz
at -7dBm