Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 13:01:56 +0200 Martin Burnicki wrote: > Chris Albertson wrote: > > I'm not a fan of Meinberg because of the way they market freely > > available software. > > I'm sorry you feel this way. > > We at Meinberg have supported the NTP project for many years, by > donations of money and hardware, testing, submitting bug reports and > patches. There've been also enhancements like the initial leap second > handling code in the Windows port of ntpd, workarounds for limitations > in Windows to increase the possible accuracy under Windows, etc. I have to second Martin here. Meinberg made ntp on windows a thing. Before them, it took a lot of effort to get it working (if you ever got that far). Also, Meinberg is one of the few companies out there who finance the development of ntp through the network time foundation. I also do not see how Meinberg "markets" ntp. If putting it on their webpage, free of charge with lots of explanation what it is, where it comes from and how to use it properly is marketing, then yes. But then time-nuts is marketing Microsemi 5071s and Trimble Thunderbolts. Attila Kinali -- You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alters their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. -- The Doctor ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Chris, Chris Albertson wrote: > I'm not a fan of Meinberg because of the way they market freely > available software. I'm sorry you feel this way. We at Meinberg have supported the NTP project for many years, by donations of money and hardware, testing, submitting bug reports and patches. There've been also enhancements like the initial leap second handling code in the Windows port of ntpd, workarounds for limitations in Windows to increase the possible accuracy under Windows, etc. Quite some years ago there was no easy way to install ntpd under Windows, so one of my colleagues had the idea to put a GUI setup program together which makes installation under Windows as simple as possible even for inexperienced users. When we started this, we also discussed with the other NTP developers and agreed that we would and should provide the installer via the Meinberg download page, where we clearly say that the setup program provides a precompiled version built from the public source code that is available at ntp.org. The installer is also free of charge, and there are no duties implied by using it. So once more, I feel sorry that you have such a bad feeling about this, which has just been introduced to make NTP more popular even for users who are not time nuts. If you know how to do it you can still build your own binaries from the original source code. Martin (who is biased since working at Meinberg) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
On Fri, August 4, 2017 9:39 am, Chris Wilson wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the replies, so basically would you say that > with a permanent internet connection I should forget using GPS time to > set the PC clock and just use Meinberg or NTP (which is what I am > currently using and seems to work just fine)? I think you asked the wrong question, so you got the question to the answer you asked and not what you wanted to know. You asked whether Lady Heather can set PC time, the answer is yes but it is a crude way to set the time. What you really wanted to know is how to get time from a GPS receiver into the PC, and the answer to that is that gpsd has a driver that can communicate with a Thunderbolt (Palisade driver), and gpsd also knows how to communicate with a Thunderbolt. So use ntp directly to communicate with the Thunderbolt. Lady Heather is an awesome program for doing lots of things with a Thunderbolt, but disciplining the system clock to follow the GPS receiver is not really one of those things. -- Chris Caudle ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
I'm all for building NTPD from source (as a former refclock developer). But for those not building from source and wanting to install on Windows, Meinberg NTPD's self-installing package is very easy and does everything right. They distribute this for free. I think they've done a great service. And having real NTPD is so much superior to the many poor quality commercial programs out there that a newbie might otherwise install. Tim N3QE On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Chris Wilson wrote: > > > > > Thanks to everyone for the replies, so basically would you say that > > with a permanent internet connection I should forget using GPS time to > > set the PC clock and just use Meinberg or NTP (which is what I am > > currently using and seems to work just fine)? > > You'd be using the same NTP software in either case. The difference > is it you were to add a GPS reference clock to the current setup. > Even with GPS you's till want to keep the internet based reference > clocks. > > Currently your PC clock might be accurate that the few milliseconds > level. Adding a GPS receiver into the mix will improve accuracy to > the tens of microseconds level. You'd gain abut two orders of > magnitude over the current setup. > > Do you need this? I can think of uses for a highly accurate clock in > amateur radio. Perhaps you are measuring propagation delay. Doing > this 100 times more accurately might be helpful.On the other hand > maybe you only need log files time stamps to be with a second or so of > correct? When I got into this may application was pointing > telescopes and measuring the light from variable stars.Usually you > can start with you application and work backwards to place a > requirement on time accuracy > > On the other hand this is a "time nuts" list and some people here just > want the BEST they can get. > > I'm not a fan of Meinberg because of the way they market freely > available software. > > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Chris Wilson wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for the replies, so basically would you say that > with a permanent internet connection I should forget using GPS time to > set the PC clock and just use Meinberg or NTP (which is what I am > currently using and seems to work just fine)? You'd be using the same NTP software in either case. The difference is it you were to add a GPS reference clock to the current setup. Even with GPS you's till want to keep the internet based reference clocks. Currently your PC clock might be accurate that the few milliseconds level. Adding a GPS receiver into the mix will improve accuracy to the tens of microseconds level. You'd gain abut two orders of magnitude over the current setup. Do you need this? I can think of uses for a highly accurate clock in amateur radio. Perhaps you are measuring propagation delay. Doing this 100 times more accurately might be helpful.On the other hand maybe you only need log files time stamps to be with a second or so of correct? When I got into this may application was pointing telescopes and measuring the light from variable stars.Usually you can start with you application and work backwards to place a requirement on time accuracy On the other hand this is a "time nuts" list and some people here just want the BEST they can get. I'm not a fan of Meinberg because of the way they market freely available software. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Doh! Sorry David... I actually found the Meinberg references from the stasignal.eu page. Can't tell you the number of hours I've spent reading your page. Working on both my GPSDO and NTP Stratum-1 solutions now... well, they're "on the list". 73, __ Clay Autery, KY5G MONTAC Enterprises (318) 518-1389 On 8/4/2017 9:50 AM, David J Taylor via time-nuts wrote: > From: Clay Autery > > I use Meinberg's NTP for Windows... and their Monitor program. > > https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm > > 73, > === > > Clay, > > That's a Windows compile of the source I mentioned: > >> >> https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz >> > > made into a rather nice installable package. I also offer a guide to > installing the software: > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html > > and some recent binaries if all you need are updates (although the > Meinberg installer also offers an update only mode): > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/index.html > > I have a PPS/GPS attached to several Windows-10 PCs for better > timekeeping - down to the hundred-microsecond level: > > http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows-stratum-1 > > 73, > David GM8ARV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Hello, on 04/08/2017 15:36 you wrote: > Answer to second question: For GMT time display set the time zone > name to GMT with a time zone offset of 0. (TZ keyboard command TZ > GMT, command line option /tx=GMT). > First question: Yes Heather can set your system clock (assuming > the program has access privileges to the change the clock. Check > out the TS keyboard command or /ts? command line options. The > clock setting routine is rather rude and crude. It just jams the > system clock with the receiver time on a once per minute/hour/day > interval or whenever the receiver and system clocks diverge by more > the "x" milliseconds. The main purpose of the time set feature is > for use when you don't have a net connection or NTP available. > The next version of Lady Heather has the ability to echo the > receiver data (in either native format or NMEA format) to another serial port > / IP address. > And for radio operations Heather has the ability to display the location in > Maidenhead format. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. Thanks to everyone for the replies, so basically would you say that with a permanent internet connection I should forget using GPS time to set the PC clock and just use Meinberg or NTP (which is what I am currently using and seems to work just fine)? -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
From: Clay Autery I use Meinberg's NTP for Windows... and their Monitor program. https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm 73, === Clay, That's a Windows compile of the source I mentioned: https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz made into a rather nice installable package. I also offer a guide to installing the software: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html and some recent binaries if all you need are updates (although the Meinberg installer also offers an update only mode): http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/index.html I have a PPS/GPS attached to several Windows-10 PCs for better timekeeping - down to the hundred-microsecond level: http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows-stratum-1 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
I use Meinberg's NTP for Windows... and their Monitor program. https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm 73, __ Clay Autery, KY5G MONTAC Enterprises (318) 518-1389 On 8/4/2017 2:10 AM, David J Taylor via time-nuts wrote: > Apologies for the off list reply. > > The site www.davehart.net does not appear to be online any more. Would > you know of an alternative source for the Dave Hart Windows port of > NTP ? > > Cheers > > Arne > > > Arne, > > The official distribution contains a Windows port which compiles under > a variety of MS Visual Studio versions. > > https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz > > https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.3.93.tar.gz > > > Many people have contributed to this port, including Dave Hart, of > course. > > Whatever became of Dave? > > Cheers, > David ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Answer to second question: For GMT time display set the time zone name to GMT with a time zone offset of 0. (TZ keyboard command TZ GMT, command line option /tx=GMT). First question: Yes Heather can set your system clock (assuming the program has access privileges to the change the clock. Check out the TS keyboard command or /ts? command line options. The clock setting routine is rather rude and crude. It just jams the system clock with the receiver time on a once per minute/hour/day interval or whenever the receiver and system clocks diverge by more the "x" milliseconds. The main purpose of the time set feature is for use when you don't have a net connection or NTP available. The next version of Lady Heather has the ability to echo the receiver data (in either native format or NMEA format) to another serial port / IP address. And for radio operations Heather has the ability to display the location in Maidenhead format. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Apologies for the off list reply. The site www.davehart.net does not appear to be online any more. Would you know of an alternative source for the Dave Hart Windows port of NTP ? Cheers Arne Arne, The official distribution contains a Windows port which compiles under a variety of MS Visual Studio versions. https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.3.93.tar.gz Many people have contributed to this port, including Dave Hart, of course. Whatever became of Dave? Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Adrian Godwin wrote: > Could Lady Heather provide an NTP server so a local NTP client could access > the GPS time ? Or is that an overcomplicated way to do it? If LH can adjust the system time (I don't know if it can) then you could in addition install ntpd and configure the "local clock" 127.127.1.0 as the only reference time source. Then ntpd does not adjust the system time but makes the adjusted system time available to NTP clients on the network. Martin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
Could Lady Heather provide an NTP server so a local NTP client could access the GPS time ? Or is that an overcomplicated way to do it? On 3 Aug 2017 20:19, "David J Taylor via time-nuts" wrote: > I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital > mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble > Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I > do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does > the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS > via a true serial port. Thanks! > > Best Regards, > Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY > = > > Chris, > > If you have a PPS source you can use that directly with your Windows-7 PC. > I have some notes here: > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm > > Windows works internally in UTC, just choose your time zone from the > Control Panel. I'm guessing that you mean UK local time, as GMT and UTC > are the same (at least as far as wall-clock time is concerned). > > 73, > David GM8ARV > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk > Twitter: @gm8arv > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?
I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS via a true serial port. Thanks! Best Regards, Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY = Chris, If you have a PPS source you can use that directly with your Windows-7 PC. I have some notes here: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm Windows works internally in UTC, just choose your time zone from the Control Panel. I'm guessing that you mean UK local time, as GMT and UTC are the same (at least as far as wall-clock time is concerned). 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
