Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-28 Thread jimlux 

On 10/28/16 5:03 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

If you look at the mode shapes for the various overtones, their energy
maxima are at different locations on the blank. If you put an electrode on
top of the 3rd overtone energy pattern (and avoid the fundamental pattern)
you will boost the 3rd and reduce the fundamental. You can actually find
examples of this in production.

A more aggressive approach would be to “sort circuit” the fundamental energy
so that the fundamental went down even further. While it can be done, I have
never seen a production example of doing this.



Fascinating.. this is similar to the reason piano hammers strike 1/7th 
of the way from the end of the string - to suppress that particular 
overtone, which is dissonant.


And, the whole "playing a harmonic" on a guitar is exactly what you're 
talking about with picks replacing electrode positions..


https://www.guitarlessonworld.com/lessons/harmonics/ is the first hit I 
got on google and explains it.


There's all sorts of harmonic maps for guitar (where to pluck or push)

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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-28 Thread Bob Camp 
HI

Roughly 99% of it is buried away in the heads of a few dozen people around 
the world.

Bob


> On Oct 28, 2016, at 4:24 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> Hoi Bob,
> 
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:50:46 -0400
> Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
>> Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
>> intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
>> that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.
> 
> Interesting, thanks!
> 
> Do you have any references I could read on how this is done?
> Or anything else on how crystals are manufactured and optimized?
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> -- 
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
> use without that foundation.
> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-28 Thread Bob Camp 
Hi

If you look at the mode shapes for the various overtones, their energy
maxima are at different locations on the blank. If you put an electrode on
top of the 3rd overtone energy pattern (and avoid the fundamental pattern)
you will boost the 3rd and reduce the fundamental. You can actually find
examples of this in production.

A more aggressive approach would be to “sort circuit” the fundamental energy 
so that the fundamental went down even further. While it can be done, I have
never seen a production example of doing this. 

Bob

> On Oct 27, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/27/2016 4:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
>> intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
>> that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
> 
> That's interesting.  Every overtone crystal I have played with
> would happily oscillate at the fundamental.  How do they
> get rid of the fundamental?
> 
> Rick
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-28 Thread Attila Kinali 
Hoi Bob,

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:50:46 -0400
Bob Camp  wrote:

> Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
> intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
> that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.

Interesting, thanks!

Do you have any references I could read on how this is done?
Or anything else on how crystals are manufactured and optimized?

Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-27 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist 



On 10/27/2016 4:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.

Bob



That's interesting.  Every overtone crystal I have played with
would happily oscillate at the fundamental.  How do they
get rid of the fundamental?

Rick
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-27 Thread Bob Camp 
Hi

Indeed, there are processes for things like filter crystals that reduce the 
(very) near by responses. There are approaches for things like SC’s to
take out the somewhat further out “bothersome” stuff.

Bob

> On Oct 27, 2016, at 7:53 PM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hmm, such fiddeling could maybe also apply to nearby alternative modes of the 
> crystals, even if I guess it would be harder to do meaningful dents on them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 10/28/2016 01:50 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
>> intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
>> that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Oct 27, 2016, at 6:42 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Moin,
>>> 
>>> I have stumbled over another question I am unable to answer using the
>>> tools I have available: Is there any fundamental difference in manufacturing
>>> fundamental and overtone chrystals. Or to be more precise: is there an
>>> optimization process during manufacturing that makes a crystal more suited
>>> for one of the harmonics than for the others or all crystals similarly
>>> well suited to be used as an fundamental crystal as they are for the 3rd
>>> or 5th overtone?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Attila Kinali
>>> --
>>> Malek's Law:
>>>   Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-27 Thread Magnus Danielson 

Hi,

Hmm, such fiddeling could maybe also apply to nearby alternative modes 
of the crystals, even if I guess it would be harder to do meaningful 
dents on them.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 10/28/2016 01:50 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.

Bob


On Oct 27, 2016, at 6:42 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:

Moin,

I have stumbled over another question I am unable to answer using the
tools I have available: Is there any fundamental difference in manufacturing
fundamental and overtone chrystals. Or to be more precise: is there an
optimization process during manufacturing that makes a crystal more suited
for one of the harmonics than for the others or all crystals similarly
well suited to be used as an fundamental crystal as they are for the 3rd
or 5th overtone?


Attila Kinali
--
Malek's Law:
   Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-27 Thread Bob Camp 
Hi

Crystals are highly optimized for the specific overtone they are
intended to operate on. In fact, you can fiddle them to the point
that they no longer have a “fundamental” response.

Bob

> On Oct 27, 2016, at 6:42 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> Moin,
> 
> I have stumbled over another question I am unable to answer using the
> tools I have available: Is there any fundamental difference in manufacturing
> fundamental and overtone chrystals. Or to be more precise: is there an
> optimization process during manufacturing that makes a crystal more suited
> for one of the harmonics than for the others or all crystals similarly
> well suited to be used as an fundamental crystal as they are for the 3rd
> or 5th overtone?
> 
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> -- 
> Malek's Law:
>Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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[time-nuts] Difference in manufacturing for fundamental tone, 3rd, and 5th overtone crystals

2016-10-27 Thread Attila Kinali 
Moin,

I have stumbled over another question I am unable to answer using the
tools I have available: Is there any fundamental difference in manufacturing
fundamental and overtone chrystals. Or to be more precise: is there an
optimization process during manufacturing that makes a crystal more suited
for one of the harmonics than for the others or all crystals similarly
well suited to be used as an fundamental crystal as they are for the 3rd
or 5th overtone?


Attila Kinali
-- 
Malek's Law:
Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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