Re: [time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Hal Murray]

dgmin...@mediacombb.net said:
> The 1820-0313 is a Fairchild 931HC or Motorola MC931G DTL clocked flipflop.
> I think if you toy with a TTL or CMOS JK-flipflop; it should work with no
> issues.  The only caveat would be the 4.2V Vcc.  The DTL logic was spec'ed
> to run at 5V, same as TTL, but don't know how TTL logic would work at 4.2V. 

CMOS runs fine at lower voltages - just slower.  Many data sheets for 5V 
parts include timings for 3.3V and 1.65V.  I'd try HC.

As a rule of thumb, speed (MHz) is roughly linear going through 0 at 0V and 
prop time is roughly linear going through 0 at absolute zero.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Mark Sims]

I would look at using a 74HC series flip flop.  Runs down to 2V.

Or perhaps the ECG or NTE 9093D (an ECG-9093D is $1.25 on Ebay).  It's a dual 
flip flop.  You would need to check if the J and K inputs are usable in the 
5065A.  I think it only has one pin per J/K and the 931G has two AND'd together.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Dave M]

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <1580810140.741428.1494966823...@mail.yahoo.com>, Ulf
Kylenfall via time-nut s writes:


That the 1820-0313 is unobtanium I can understand.Has anyone created
an equvalent based on discretesor is there a suitable SMD "single"
flip-flop like single gatesthat could be suitable?


I did a divider board for the LED clock:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20160112_working_clock/index.html


The 1820-0313 is a Fairchild 931HC or Motorola MC931G DTL clocked flipflop.
I think if you toy with a TTL or CMOS JK-flipflop; it should work with no
issues.  The only caveat would be the 4.2V Vcc.  The DTL logic was spec'ed
to run at 5V, same as TTL, but don't know how TTL logic would work at 4.2V.
.
You might find a 3.3V flipflop and zener the 4.2V Vcc down to 3.3V and build
it all onto a small piece of perfboard.

I've attached a copy of the pertinent pages from my old Motorola databook
(1966 Motorola Semiconductor Handbook) directly to Poul.

Dave M 


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <1580810140.741428.1494966823...@mail.yahoo.com>, Ulf Kylenfall via 
time-nut
s writes:

>That the 1820-0313 is unobtanium I can understand.Has anyone created
>an equvalent based on discretesor is there a suitable SMD "single"
>flip-flop like single gatesthat could be suitable?

I did a divider board for the LED clock:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20160112_working_clock/index.html

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If you approach this as “restoring a classic car”, then you repair the beast. 
From a practical standpoint, looking at the 
schematic and what’s in the divider setup ….. it looks like a < $2 PIC  or ($3 
STM32 board ) would replace almost 
everything there. That’s not quite accurate, but it’s pretty close. Getting it 
all to work would take a bit of effort. On the 
other hand somebody may have a great big pile of modules running around. 
Replacement may be cheaper / easier than you think. 

Bob

> On May 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Starting to trouble-shoot some of the 5065A circuitryI saw that the 
> (mechanical) clock drive flipflop IC1of the digital divider ass:y A16 is 
> behaving very strange.
> All of the voltage regulator circuitry in this ass:y is working,providing 
> 4.2V and so on, but IC1 and the two transistorsQ11 and Q12 exhibits a strange 
> behavior.
> When IC1 is driven by a 1PPS squarewave of 0...4.2Vthe outputs of the 
> transistors goes from either 0...4.2VOR 4.2...13V OR 0...13V in a random 
> pattern.I can see this also at the bases of the transistors.The 13.3V is 
> stable
> That the 1820-0313 is unobtanium I can understand.Has anyone created an 
> equvalent based on discretesor is there a suitable SMD "single" flip-flop 
> like single gatesthat could be suitable?
> (Just want to know if I should scrap the Option 01 and 03alltogether)
> UlfSM6GXV
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[time-nuts] HP 1820-0313 4.2V Logic (Flip-flop)

[Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts]

 
Starting to trouble-shoot some of the 5065A circuitryI saw that the 
(mechanical) clock drive flipflop IC1of the digital divider ass:y A16 is 
behaving very strange.
All of the voltage regulator circuitry in this ass:y is working,providing 4.2V 
and so on, but IC1 and the two transistorsQ11 and Q12 exhibits a strange 
behavior.
When IC1 is driven by a 1PPS squarewave of 0...4.2Vthe outputs of the 
transistors goes from either 0...4.2VOR 4.2...13V OR 0...13V in a random 
pattern.I can see this also at the bases of the transistors.The 13.3V is stable
That the 1820-0313 is unobtanium I can understand.Has anyone created an 
equvalent based on discretesor is there a suitable SMD "single" flip-flop like 
single gatesthat could be suitable?
(Just want to know if I should scrap the Option 01 and 03alltogether)
UlfSM6GXV
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