Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
get beryllium-coper shimming, 0,08mm or thinner--it does not get "wet" from the fluid solder and it is very hard, but bendable --and push it slowly, but with forcefully into the thin gap between the soldered parts to be separated, while you are heating the case from outside to keep the solder melted it is safe and does not need to overheat or pry anything, you will need multiple peace for every site of the box 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 4/9/2014 6:04 AM, paul swed wrote: Totally agree with the comments here. Lot of heat and I slip an exact o knife in to gently separate the can and base and also to gently lift the base out. Remember solder follows the heat so if you can tip the can apply the heat below and the solder will tend to drip out. The great news is since the oscillator is bad nothing to loose by trying to get in. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:01 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Two other suggestions to open the can. If you don't have a good 'suction' de-soldering station, you can try to 'wedge' some de-soldering braid in the seam to absorb the solder then proceed as Tom suggests. Also, if there is a way to 'grab' the can or the base, such as placing it in a vise, you can use a propane torch to heat the seam rapidly while pulling on the other end with a large pair of pliers. That's how I have opened HV power supplies on 5061 CS Beam Standards. They are not SMT but have a layer of thick paper wrapped around the assembly between the can and the assembly and were unharmed in the process. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart the seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. Good luck, Tom - Original Message - From: "David McQuate" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very small capacitance to couple the square wave out. Dave On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform about one volt peak to peak. Two questions: (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and recover a good 10MHZ square wave? In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is from the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see the frequency is spot on 10MHz. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
I recently discovered that the 'square' wave from the oscillator was not looking right. I thought things were awry until I terminated the coax from the oscillator to the 'scope. Then it looked good. What probe are you using? If you are connecting from the oscillator to the 'scope via a piece of coaxial cable, you need to terminate it properly. If you are using a high impedance probe, my comments do not apply. Bob On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:58 AM, paul swed wrote: Totally agree with the comments here. Lot of heat and I slip an exact o knife in to gently separate the can and base and also to gently lift the base out. Remember solder follows the heat so if you can tip the can apply the heat below and the solder will tend to drip out. The great news is since the oscillator is bad nothing to loose by trying to get in. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:01 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Two other suggestions to open the can. > > If you don't have a good 'suction' de-soldering station, you can try to > 'wedge' some de-soldering braid in the seam to absorb the solder then > proceed as Tom suggests. > > Also, if there is a way to 'grab' the can or the base, such as placing it > in > a vise, you can use a propane torch to heat the seam rapidly while pulling > on the other end with a large pair of pliers. That's how I have opened HV > power supplies on 5061 CS Beam Standards. They are not SMT but have a > layer > of thick paper wrapped around the assembly between the can and the assembly > and were unharmed in the process. > > Good luck. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Tom Miller > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:33 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. > > As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually > use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much > solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart > the > seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The > main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. > > Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. > > Good luck, > Tom > > - Original Message - > From: "David McQuate" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > > > The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting > > the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very > > small capacitance to couple the square wave out. > > > > Dave > > > > On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > >> My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 > >> hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform > >> about > >> one volt peak to peak. > >> > >> Two questions: > >> (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. > >> > >> (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still > puts > >> out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and > >> recover a good 10MHZ square wave? > >> > >> In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The > >> large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is > >> from > >> the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see > >> the > >> frequency is spot on 10MHz. > >> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
One other tip. If the can and base are tight fitting you can file through the corners of the can at 45 degrees to the sides. This breaks the stiffness of the can and allows the sides to be folded out slightly. Straighten them before re-assembly. You can build up the corners with solder to restore the original profile. Robert G8RPI. From: paul swed To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2014, 14:04 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? Totally agree with the comments here. Lot of heat and I slip an exact o knife in to gently separate the can and base and also to gently lift the base out. Remember solder follows the heat so if you can tip the can apply the heat below and the solder will tend to drip out. The great news is since the oscillator is bad nothing to loose by trying to get in. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:01 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Two other suggestions to open the can. > > If you don't have a good 'suction' de-soldering station, you can try to > 'wedge' some de-soldering braid in the seam to absorb the solder then > proceed as Tom suggests. > > Also, if there is a way to 'grab' the can or the base, such as placing it > in > a vise, you can use a propane torch to heat the seam rapidly while pulling > on the other end with a large pair of pliers. That's how I have opened HV > power supplies on 5061 CS Beam Standards. They are not SMT but have a > layer > of thick paper wrapped around the assembly between the can and the assembly > and were unharmed in the process. > > Good luck. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Tom Miller > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:33 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. > > As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually > use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much > solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart > the > seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The > main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. > > Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. > > Good luck, > Tom > > - Original Message - > From: "David McQuate" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > > > The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting > > the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very > > small capacitance to couple the square wave out. > > > > Dave > > > > On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > >> My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 > >> hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform > >> about > >> one volt peak to peak. > >> > >> Two questions: > >> (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. > >> > >> (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still > puts > >> out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and > >> recover a good 10MHZ square wave? > >> > >> In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The > >> large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is > >> from > >> the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see > >> the > >> frequency is spot on 10MHz. > >> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
Totally agree with the comments here. Lot of heat and I slip an exact o knife in to gently separate the can and base and also to gently lift the base out. Remember solder follows the heat so if you can tip the can apply the heat below and the solder will tend to drip out. The great news is since the oscillator is bad nothing to loose by trying to get in. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:01 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Two other suggestions to open the can. > > If you don't have a good 'suction' de-soldering station, you can try to > 'wedge' some de-soldering braid in the seam to absorb the solder then > proceed as Tom suggests. > > Also, if there is a way to 'grab' the can or the base, such as placing it > in > a vise, you can use a propane torch to heat the seam rapidly while pulling > on the other end with a large pair of pliers. That's how I have opened HV > power supplies on 5061 CS Beam Standards. They are not SMT but have a > layer > of thick paper wrapped around the assembly between the can and the assembly > and were unharmed in the process. > > Good luck. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Tom Miller > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:33 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. > > As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually > use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much > solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart > the > seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The > main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. > > Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. > > Good luck, > Tom > > - Original Message - > From: "David McQuate" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > > > > The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting > > the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very > > small capacitance to couple the square wave out. > > > > Dave > > > > On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > >> My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 > >> hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform > >> about > >> one volt peak to peak. > >> > >> Two questions: > >> (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. > >> > >> (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still > puts > >> out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and > >> recover a good 10MHZ square wave? > >> > >> In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The > >> large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is > >> from > >> the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see > >> the > >> frequency is spot on 10MHz. > >> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
Two other suggestions to open the can. If you don't have a good 'suction' de-soldering station, you can try to 'wedge' some de-soldering braid in the seam to absorb the solder then proceed as Tom suggests. Also, if there is a way to 'grab' the can or the base, such as placing it in a vise, you can use a propane torch to heat the seam rapidly while pulling on the other end with a large pair of pliers. That's how I have opened HV power supplies on 5061 CS Beam Standards. They are not SMT but have a layer of thick paper wrapped around the assembly between the can and the assembly and were unharmed in the process. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart the seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. Good luck, Tom - Original Message - From: "David McQuate" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? > The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting > the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very > small capacitance to couple the square wave out. > > Dave > > On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: >> My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 >> hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform >> about >> one volt peak to peak. >> >> Two questions: >> (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. >> >> (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts >> out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and >> recover a good 10MHZ square wave? >> >> In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The >> large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is >> from >> the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see >> the >> frequency is spot on 10MHz. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
I would agree with David. Or there is a SMT resistor or cap that is broken. As to opening the can, do you have a vacuum desoldering station? I usually use a good iron the heat the seam and at the same time suck out as much solder as possible. Then use a small flat blade screwdriver to pry apart the seam. You just want the seam to fail as you work it all the way around. The main point is to get as much of the solder out as possible. Take some pictures so we can see how it goes. Good luck, Tom - Original Message - From: "David McQuate" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable? The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very small capacitance to couple the square wave out. Dave On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform about one volt peak to peak. Two questions: (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and recover a good 10MHZ square wave? In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is from the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see the frequency is spot on 10MHz. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:58 AM, David McQuate wrote: > The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting the > internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very small > capacitance to couple the square wave out. I agree, I had a similar problem on an oscilloscope input some time ago. It was a cold solder joint. It must definitely repairable as long as the shielding can be opened safely. Regards Frank IZ8DWF > > Dave > > On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: >> >> My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 >> hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform >> about >> one volt peak to peak. >> >> Two questions: >> (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. >> >> (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts >> out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and >> recover a good 10MHZ square wave? >> >> In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The >> large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is from >> the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see the >> frequency is spot on 10MHz. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
The output looks differentiated, as would happen if the wire connecting the internal circuit to the output pin became open, leaving only a very small capacitance to couple the square wave out. Dave On 4/8/2014 11:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform about one volt peak to peak. Two questions: (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and recover a good 10MHZ square wave? In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is from the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see the frequency is spot on 10MHz. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?
My Bliley square wave 10MHz OCXO was working just fine for close to 30 hours until a few hours ago. Now it puts out a rather noisy waveform about one volt peak to peak. Two questions: (1) Are these things repairable, the metal can is soldered. (2) As you can see in the attached oscilloscope photo the OCXO still puts out a strong 10MHZ component. What is the best way to filter this and recover a good 10MHZ square wave? In the linked photo, both channels are set to 1 volt per division. The large sine wave is from a Trimble Thunderbolt and the smaller wave is from the failed ocxo The EFC is left open (disconnected) and a you can see the frequency is spot on 10MHz. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gy3yobd4myi4vp/waveform.jpg -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
